Just had my test drive in a 197

[sar197]

This has been a very informative post (ableit the petty arguing lol).

I may need that flash ECU upgrade as my 2007 R27 has all the symptoms of the original ecu probs....
jumpy and lacks instant power when engine is cold. May get it booked in soon.

I was told by the dealer that all 197's do this and it is not a fault. Got told that it is because the oil is "like water" thus only performs properly when engine is warm????

Not a major problem tho, only lasts for first 5 mins of start up but id rather not have it.

Loving the car tho atm was awesome revving the nuts of the engine trying to keep up with my cousins evo (was never going to happen lol).

Get it done.

It doesn't just fix the cold start issues. There is considerable improvement in performance. With the update our R27 is instantly responsive and pulls like our old 172 Cup did.

The Renault ECU update is actually better than any aftermarket remap on stock parts and since installing it and an ITG panel filter our R27 is like a bullet.

What an amazing car Renault have produced...22k and loving it :approve:

 

[Munson]

You can buy them anyway, but they're not road legal and even if they were, you'd probably snap your spine into lots of pieces on any normal road.

 

[Russy B]

Get it done.

It doesn't just fix the cold start issues. There is considerable improvement in performance. With the update our R27 is instantly responsive and pulls like our old 172 Cup did.

The Renault ECU update is actually better than any aftermarket remap on stock parts and since installing it and an ITG panel filter our R27 is like a bullet.

What an amazing car Renault have produced...22k and loving it :approve:

So you recommend an ITG filter, just the foam element or an induction kit

 

[Russy B]

i was gonna try and do a custom induction kit with the ducting and pipes and the filter

 

[c__w]

14k on a clio, woah, you should have saved yourself £11 000 and bought yourself a 172 cup which is faster, looks better, wont financially cripple you, and is better on fuel!

Each to their own though

You do realise people buy brand new cars (that's how you can buy a "2nd hand" car a few years down the line much cheaper...) and for a brand new car £14k is on the cheap side? It might financially cripple YOU but that doesn't mean it does others, afterall someone paid £11k for your car once! New cars cost money

 

[c__w]

just to play devil advocate, chris harris when at Autocar in his official road test of the 197 stated it was a better car than the 182 period.

It is; I bought a 182 (girlfriend's actually) and we test drove a couple of 197s also. I thought they were brilliant, amazed in fact at the stability, grip, gearchange and steering and space inside. The 182 is a very nice car but feels more old-school (it felt quicker in a straight line though).

 

[ForceIndia]

just to play devil advocate, chris harris when at Autocar in his official road test of the 197 stated it was a better car than the 182 period. He stated it is the hot hatch porsche would make if they did. I wish i still had my copy of the article as it was great.

So it just shows there are a variety of differnet reviews of the 197, some people think it is awesome and better than the older models or anything else in its bracket, and then there are other publicatinos who think a MCS is better.

all horses for courses and again, ultimately, personal opinion.

This is one of the great enthusiast’s cars and it demands evaluation alongside cars of similarly focused appeal. Porsche owners will scoff at such a suggestion, but they will modify their opinion after a 20-mile drive trying, and failing, to remove a Clio from their rear-view mirror. What a car. What a bargain.
C Harris

 

[sar197]

So you recommend an ITG filter, just the foam element or an induction kit

Just get the ITG Filter in there as it gives the car a bit more punch, improves economy and seems to work very well with the latest Renault ECU program.

As for people saying the 197 lacks low down torque this is complete rubbish and is based on old information and press reviews of the original car running on the old ECU program.

Since Renault have reconfigured the injection timing the 197 is instantly responsive and pulls just aswell as a 172 or 182.

 

[Phill1978]

another point to be made is how many 172 and 182`s now have slightly worn shocks, perhaps some camber out and not the freshest of tyres, turns them into run of the mill cars that even a new astra sport hatch can out corner.

my point is, the 182 is a memory for a growing number, age is not on its side and there will be many examples not fit like they came from the factory, you cant 'generally' compare a box fresh 197 with a 2-3year old 182 as even if the 182 was better at handling its lost its precision over the years with wear and tear.

 

[theduck]

I think the Cup racer is around 1050kg, so the road car would have to lose pretty much everything to trim 200kg off.

Whataver happened to this rumour? Shattered spine anyone?

Was too expensive and the project car was sold off.

 

[seb]

This is one of the great enthusiast’s cars and it demands evaluation alongside cars of similarly focused appeal. Porsche owners will scoff at such a suggestion, but they will modify their opinion after a 20-mile drive trying, and failing, to remove a Clio from their rear-view mirror. What a car. What a bargain.
C Harris

have you got the whole article? i can't for the life of me find it online anywhere. only other reviews by autocar and not the one by harris.

 

[sar197]

another point to be made is how many 172 and 182`s now have slightly worn shocks, perhaps some camber out and not the freshest of tyres, turns them into run of the mill cars that even a new astra sport hatch can out corner.

my point is, the 182 is a memory for a growing number, age is not on its side and there will be many examples not fit like they came from the factory, you cant 'generally' compare a box fresh 197 with a 2-3year old 182 as even if the 182 was better at handling its lost its precision over the years with wear and tear.

Rubbish.

I've owned 172 Cup, 172 Sport and R27. Out of the box the Renault remapped R27 has the older models licked.

 

[ForceIndia]

Rubbish.

I've owned 172 Cup, 172 Sport and R27. Out of the box the Renault remapped R27 has the older models licked.

FFS, they were the earlier versions. The Trophy drives very differently to a 172.

 

[ForceIndia]

have you got the whole article? i can't for the life of me find it online anywhere. only other reviews by autocar and not the one by harris.

I was being cheeky. Those are C Harris' comments about the Trophy
http://www.autocar.co.uk/CarReviews/FirstDrives/Renault-Clio-2.0-Renaultsport-182-Trophy/216093/

 

[c__w]

another point to be made is how many 172 and 182`s now have slightly worn shocks, perhaps some camber out and not the freshest of tyres, turns them into run of the mill cars that even a new astra sport hatch can out corner.

my point is, the 182 is a memory for a growing number, age is not on its side and there will be many examples not fit like they came from the factory, you cant 'generally' compare a box fresh 197 with a 2-3year old 182 as even if the 182 was better at handling its lost its precision over the years with wear and tear.

My 182 I got has 30k on it and it feels tight, but it's a lot more nervous just like the roadtest reviews described it. The 197 I test-drove was a bit rough round the edges and had 70k miles on it but it was still a revelation. It's the basic suspension design, track width etc it's just very different to a 172/182. The other added bonus of the different front suspension design is the lack of torque steer which adds the impression of great stability and grip.

 

[ForceIndia]

My 182 I got has 30k on it and it feels tight, but it's a lot more nervous just like the roadtest reviews described it. The 197 I test-drove was a bit rough round the edges and had 70k miles on it but it was still a revelation. It's the basic suspension design, track width etc it's just very different to a 172/182. The other added bonus of the different front suspension design is the lack of torque steer which adds the impression of great stability and grip.

1*2's and 197's don't need the revo-knuckle style hub, as they don't have the torque of the 225's. It's the very reason the steering is so lacking in feel.

 

[Gaz_]

tbh its a good job the 197 doesnt have the prehistoric set up of the MK2..... ah that clunking squeeking is now a distant memory, as to is the low speed scrubbing on full lock.....win tbh!!

And no, the very reason is because the 197 rack is electric, not hydaulic like the mk2's, so thus looses feel

Tbh its not bad at all, much much better than an ep3. I drive a combo van that all electic at work everyday, now that has 0% feel.

 

[seb]

see i got the 197 review similiar ot that one on autocar. but it is not the same one as they printed . they have cut it down. harris' comments about the 197 were epic tbh. lol

 

[sar197]

FFS, they were the earlier versions. The Trophy drives very differently to a 172.

LOL

 

[Gaz_]

How is it that all 197 threads turn into a Trophy thread?

I swear to god warren has a 197 thread alert on his laptop........
Repeat after me, the Trophy is DEAD (deal with it)

 

[ForceIndia]

tbh its a good job the 197 doesnt have the prehistoric set up of the MK2..... ah that clunking squeeking is now a distant memory, as to is the low speed scrubbing on full lock.....win tbh!!

And no, the very reason is because the 197 rack is electric, not hydaulic like the mk2's, so thus looses feel

Tbh its not bad at all, much much better than an ep3. I drive a combo van that all electic at work everyday, now that has 0% feel.

Guy on Rsport is adamant that the lack of steering feel is due to the revo-knuckle style set-up, completely isolating the torque from the steering. Hence why the electric system on the R26 feels so much better.

 

[ForceIndia]

LOL

Fair enough, if you believe the Trophy drives the same as a 172, you're in no position to judge! 197 owners are ace. If I'm understanding things correctly, the 197 is far better handling, better under braking (true) and just as quick in a straight line. So 197 boys, how does the Trophy manage to lap quicker?

 

[Gaz_]

Guy on Rsport is adamant that the lack of steering feel is due to the revo-knuckle style set-up, completely isolating the torque from the steering. Hence why the electric system on the R26 feels so much better.

Is this fact or opinion?

 

[ForceIndia]

Is this fact or opinion?

Would make sense, the systems are similar bar the diff.

 

[Gaz_]

Fair enough, if you believe the Trophy drives the same as a 172, you're in no position to judge! 197 owners are ace. If I'm understanding things correctly, the 197 is far better handling, better under braking (true) and just as quick in a straight line. So 197 boys, how does the Trophy manage to lap quicker?

So Trophy boys, how does the 182 Cup manage to lap quicker?

:rasp:

 

[ForceIndia]

So Trophy boys, how does the 182 Cup manage to lap quicker?

:rasp:

Finally, someone admitting that the 197 is slower than the 182! I've always said the 182 is more fun to drive.

 

[ForceIndia]

So Trophy boys, how does the 182 Cup manage to lap quicker?

:rasp:

Ps the 182cup and Trophy times were set on different days. The Trophy v 197cup were timed on the same day, same driver, consecutive laps. Pretty conclusive. Regardless of the speed, the Trophy's more fun to drive. Less refined, noisier, etc. But I'll put up with those for a more responsive, feelsome car.

 

[Gaz_]

Would make sense, the systems are similar bar the diff.

Ok think of it this way. If the steering feel was so bad, why did Renaultsport stick with the double axis setup, when they could have just widened the track, and knocked up the same set up as the MK2 (like the non RS MK3's run), ie single wishbones etc? The double wishbone set up must provide other benifits.

 

[Gaz_]

Ps the 182cup and Trophy times were set on different days. The Trophy v 197cup were timed on the same day, same driver, consecutive laps. Pretty conclusive. Regardless of the speed, the Trophy's more fun to drive. Less refined, noisier, etc. But I'll put up with those for a more responsive, feelsome car.

We know haw mileage sensitive all RS's are. Did the Cup and Trophy have the same mileage on their engines?. My bet is 197 tight as a nuns snatch, Trophy well run in........... So, not conclusive?

Next

 

[ForceIndia]

Ok think of it this way. If the steering feel was so bad, why did Renaultsport stick with the double axis setup, when they could have just widened the track, and knocked up the same set up as the MK2 (like the non RS MK3's run), ie single wishbones etc? The double wishbone set up must provide other benifits.

Because why spend the cash on development when the 225 and 197 front ends are nigh on identical? If feel was a concern, electric systems would of been binned, but economy wins out.

 

[ForceIndia]

We know haw mileage sensitive all RS's are. Did the Cup and Trophy have the same mileage on their engines?. My bet is 197 tight as a nuns snatch, Trophy well run in........... So, not conclusive?

Next

I'm pretty sure you won't agree it's conclusive until a 197 is timed as faster:dead:. Put it this way, if the 197 was 2 secs a lap quicker than a Trophy, it wouldn't make it the better drive. I've only seen 2 direct comparisons of the 197 and Trophy, the evo lap times and the PC magazine article.

 

[Gaz_]

Because why spend the cash on development when the 225 and 197 front ends are nigh on identical? If feel was a concern, electric systems would of been binned, but economy wins out.

Its becaue the double axixs system is far more stable. It breaks traction less, therefore making the car more stable

 

[Gaz_]

I'm pretty sure you won't agree it's conclusive until a 197 is timed as faster:dead:. Put it this way, if the 197 was 2 secs a lap quicker than a Trophy, it wouldn't make it the better drive. I've only seen 2 direct comparisons of the 197 and Trophy, the evo lap times and the PC magazine article.

Its not conclusive though is it? Look at all the vids of track days, the 182's are hardly in a different league are they? Where do you stop? Williams is a better drivers car than the 182, 205 is a better drivers car than a Williams....... Yadda yadda yadda.... splitting hairs tbh

 

[ForceIndia]

Its becaue the double axixs system is far more stable. It breaks traction less, therefore making the car more stable

Doesn't answer the question lol.

 

[ForceIndia]

Its not conclusive though is it? Look at all the vids of track days, the 182's are hardly in a different league are they?

Thats exactly my point. People are raving about the 197's handling, saying it's a massive step up. Please, someone explain to me how a car that's a big step forward in handling, as quick in a straight line, and better under braking, isn't a chunk quicker on track?

 

[Gaz_]

The step up is refinemant for me......

They are better out the box as an everyday car. Done. People rave on here about how slow they are, more fool them

 

[ForceIndia]

Ok think of it this way. If the steering feel was so bad, why did Renaultsport stick with the double axis setup, when they could have just widened the track, and knocked up the same set up as the MK2 (like the non RS MK3's run), ie single wishbones etc? The double wishbone set up must provide other benifits.

The step up is refinemant for me?

Um, you're answering your own question? I didn't ask why it was fitted, merely pointed out that it's one of the reasons for the lack of steering feel. Didn't realise it held such a traction advantage. Can we add better traction as one of the reasons for the 197 lapping slower .

 

[ForceIndia]

The step up is refinemant for me......

Then why don't people man up and say that! Can't argue with that, it's far more refined. Refinement isn't a concern at all for me, never has been as long as the cars good to drive and feelsome. My car's bumpy, loud, poorly built. Great fun though.

 

[ForceIndia]

The step up is refinemant for me......

They are better out the box as an everyday car. Done. People rave on here about how slow they are, more fool them

As I posted earlier in the thread, they aren't slow, but they don't feel as rapid.

 

[Gaz_]

Give me chance i'm posting one handed here, i'm w**king over evo's artical about the Trophy..... a car that finished production 4 years ago..... Ive never 'raved about the handling', as tbh i can't remember what it feels like in a standard one. All i know is, for me its a better car, quicker than my 182 (had them side by side). Against the MK2's ive come up against there is no marked difference, (even outdragged one) We dont all drive on the track 100% of the time.......