Running Costs of a Track Car

[The Psychedelic Socialist]

Right, I'm starting to price up a Clio for use as a track car, and I'm just trying to get an idea of running costs.

Currently looking at getting a 172 Cup, and gradually modding it up, but at the minute I'm interested in getting a rough idea of cost of consumables, and how long these things will last.

It'll be just a Sunday driver, and hopefully one or two track days a month in the warmer months, so it won't be covering huge miles, but the miles it does cover will mostly be full bore.

I've got this as my list of parts, but I've no idea of how long these things will last, so if anyone can help fill in the blanks it would be greatly appreciated!

Tyres, R888s on 15s (one set every three track days...?), £300/set
Discs, inc rear bearings (one set every five track days...?), £200/set
Pads (one set every three track days...?), £180/set
Fuel, £100 per track day
Oil change, (every couple of track days...?), £50?
Track day cost itself, £200

Giving a grand total of about £520 per track day.

Are these costs / usages vaguely reasonable, or will I get much more / less out of the components. Is there anything else I've forgotten (not counting annual costs like servicing / insurance / tax in this calculation)?

Thanks in advance!

 

[E11OOT]

Pads are much cheaper because you will only have to worry about the fronts....
You will now chew through rear disc or pads any where near that quickly...
Brembo HC front discs are £55 posted a pair from a trader off here....

unfortunately i can't be more specific but some more knowledgeable people will be along to give you an accurate lifespan for each consumable.

 

[The Psychedelic Socialist]

Okay, how about this then

Tyres, R888s on 15s (three track days), £300/set
Front Discs, Brembo HCs (five track days), £55/pair
Front Pads, CLs (three track days), £110/set
Rear Discs, OE (six track days), £140/set (inc bearings)
Rear Pads, CLs (six track days), £68/set
Fuel, 98RON (one track day), £100
Oil change, (three track days), £60
Track day cost itself, £200

£502 per track day

 

[z8jay]

Not sure on the costs myself but I know when I start doing trackdays I'm going to save up at least a grand or two to have a 'balloon' for any costs incurred.

 

[drhowser]

You should get more than five days from a set of front discs, my last set did seven or eight before going to someone elses car where they have done another four I think, as far as I know they are still fine.
One set of pads did all the above, but they are ready to change now.

The rear discs do almost nothing, especially on the cup, so they should comfortably do twice or three times what the fronts do.

edit* I'm wrong actually, that was two sets of front pads. Still not too bad though.

 

[gashead1105]

Okay, how about this then

Tyres, R888s on 15s (three track days), £300/set Don't bother. I had a spare set of wheels with some of these on for a couple of trackdays, they cause excessive wear on suspension components and (I felt) the clutch and didn't mean I had any more fun, so I sold them on. But if you must insist, one of my tyres was below legal limit after 3 track days but the rest were ok, so you can probably get more than 3 track days out of them (depending on heat cycles).
Front Discs, Brembo HCs (five track days), £55/pair I've done 10 track days on my HC discs. On second set of DS2500 pads though now. I prefer to do wet track days, so I probably get a bit less wear.
Front Pads, CLs (three track days), £110/set Ferodo DS2500s are about the same price, and are fantastic on these size cars.
Rear Discs, OE (six track days), £140/set (inc bearings) My car is on its original set of rear OE discs after 10 track days and 35,000 miles!
Rear Pads, CLs (six track days), £68/set OE or Pattern pads, don't spend any more. The rear brakes do virtually nothing on a 172/182. When you see how thin they are new, you'll understand. My OE pads did 32,000 miles from new + 7 trackdays, replaced with uber-cheapo pattern pads last service + done 3 more trackdays.
Fuel, 98RON (one track day), £100 About right
Oil change, (three track days), £60 About right.
Track day cost itself, £200 Generally it's a bit less than this, but I suppose you have to budget food etc.

£502 per track day

Hi there, welcome to the forum.

See my comments above.

 

[Russ_16v]

My car is on the original discs onthe back and im on 135k!!

So you can strike the rear discs off mate, on the Cup models the rear brakes only do 5% of braking

 

[gashead1105]

http://www.cliosport.net/forum/showthread.php?t=489414

I wrote my "per track day" budget out in the above thread, if you're interested.

 

[The Psychedelic Socialist]

That's great guys, exactly the feedback I was looking for!

So now I'm looking at something like this:

Tyres, Michelin PE2s (five track days), £280/set
Front Discs, Brembo HC (10 track days), £55/pair
Front Pads, CLs (5 track days), £110/pair
Rear Discs, OE inc bearings (10 track days), £140/pair
Rear Pads, KTR Ultimax / OE (10 track days), £30/pair
Oil Change (3 track days), £60
Fuel (one track day), £100
Insurance (one track day), £25
Tuition (one track day), £25
Track cost (one track day), £180

All for a total of about £450/track day.

Sound about right?

 

[Nick172Cup]

Wouldnt bother with PE2's personally, get some Hankook RS2's. £50 a corner and last just as long and are easily as good gripwise if not better than PE2's.

With insurance check the excess as some companies charge mad amounts, im guessing you know that insurance only covers you and no one else. I dont bother with insurance on track personally as I dont think that my cars worth enough to insure it.

Maybe another thing to consider is a hotel maybe for them further away tracks, not sure if you've covered that side of a trackday also.

 

[The Psychedelic Socialist]

Wouldnt bother with PE2's personally, get some Hankook RS2's. £50 a corner and last just as long and are easily as good gripwise if not better than PE2's.

With insurance check the excess as some companies charge mad amounts, im guessing you know that insurance only covers you and no one else. I dont bother with insurance on track personally as I dont think that my cars worth enough to insure it.

Maybe another thing to consider is a hotel maybe for them further away tracks, not sure if you've covered that side of a trackday also.

I've done a couple of trackdays with my old ST, and Greenlight only charged £25 to cover me for the day, so I'm hoping it won't be crazy.

Now revised downwards again...

Tyres, Hankook RS2s (five track days), £200/set
Front Discs, Brembo HC (10 track days), £55/pair
Front Pads, CLs (5 track days), £110/pair
Rear Discs, OE inc bearings (10 track days), £140/pair
Rear Pads, KTR Ultimax / OE (10 track days), £30/pair
Oil Change (3 track days), £60
Fuel (one track day), £100
Insurance (one track day), £25
Tuition (one track day), £25
Track cost (one track day), £180

All for a total of about £434.50/track day.


As for hotels, I'm pretty close as it is to a few tracks, and I've got mates in Leeds who'd put me up overnight to open up the North for me

 

[gashead1105]

You won't need new rear discs even every 10 track days.

If you're getting a cheapo 172, you probably don't need insurance either - but as I say elsewhere, the cheapest I've ever found insurance was £50 - and that is using Greenlight.

Tuition - it's about £25 for 20 minutes/half an hour. Have as much or as little as you like!

As I say elsewhere, my car only really gets an oil change at its annual service - but I only do 6/7k miles per year. The F4R engine burns no oil in normal use, and virtually none even on track. You might need to top it up after a few track days, but that's all.

Re tyres - I have PE2s on my 182 (I like the contis too, the turn in is a tad sharper but they wear quicker) but on a 172 the Hankook v12s seem to be highly thought of by others on here, and are apparently lot cheaper.

Best suggestion - buy 172 and take it to a track day. Then decide what you want to uprate - which will be the brakes! Also note that wet/winter trackdays are kinder on the car, I prefer them to summer ones as they are generally cheaper, the driving standard is better and there's a lot less grip!

 

[Nick172Cup]

You won't need new rear discs even every 10 track days.

If you're getting a cheapo 172, you probably don't need insurance either - but as I say elsewhere, the cheapest I've ever found insurance was £50 - and that is using Greenlight.

Tuition - it's about £25 for 20 minutes/half an hour. Have as much or as little as you like!

As I say elsewhere, my car only really gets an oil change at its annual service - but I only do 6/7k miles per year. The F4R engine burns no oil in normal use, and virtually none even on track. You might need to top it up after a few track days, but that's all.

Re tyres - I have PE2s on my 182 (I like the contis too, the turn in is a tad sharper but they wear quicker) but on a 172 the Hankook v12s seem to be highly thought of by others on here, and are apparently lot cheaper.

Best suggestion - buy 172 and take it to a track day. Then decide what you want to uprate - which will be the brakes! Also note that wet/winter trackdays are kinder on the car, I prefer them to summer ones as they are generally cheaper, the driving standard is better and there's a lot less grip!

Passengered a trackday in the wet and it was great fun, easier to find the limits of the car as well as not being as harsh on the car!

 

[The Psychedelic Socialist]

Best suggestion - buy 172 and take it to a track day. Then decide what you want to uprate - which will be the brakes! Also note that wet/winter trackdays are kinder on the car, I prefer them to summer ones as they are generally cheaper, the driving standard is better and there's a lot less grip!

That's the plan initially as I don't see the point in buying it and changing tyres / brakes without at least getting some wear out of the ones it comes with.

I am however planning on ultimately going down the whole roll cage / bucket seats / some stripping route, so I'm not sure what'll be replaced first!

 

[gashead1105]

Passengered a trackday in the wet and it was great fun, easier to find the limits of the car as well as not being as harsh on the car!

Yeah, I've done a few in the wet earlier in the year.

Silverstone, first track day (or racing) on the new GP circuit so very, very green, lift off over steer through maggots (I think) at about 80mph or so...

 

[SteveS Cup]

Someone with a bit of sense budgeting for consumables of Tracking a car before building one!!!!

They certainly aren't a cheap hobby, I wish I had a spare £900 per month to blow on Trackdays, I hope you enjoy it!

On a side note, would you not be better getting a cheaper Ph1 for track??? Cups worth buying are fetching good money, I wouldn't want to risk £4k - £5k's worth of car on the track personally, then again, I don't have a spare £900 per month so maybe £5k to you is the equivelant to £2.5k to me!!! lol.

I hope you get a nice car and have fun on the track!

 

[Russ_16v]

Try to do as many wet track days as possible.

Iv done many over the years and its so much fun, it took me ages to get used tp pushing the car in the wet, but now im to the point were im one of the quicker cars rather than the slower ones, in fact I managed to not be passed at one session at Combe, even though I had a lot of faster cars out there.

 

[The Psychedelic Socialist]

Someone with a bit of sense budgeting for consumables of Tracking a car before building one!!!!

They certainly aren't a cheap hobby, I wish I had a spare £900 per month to blow on Trackdays, I hope you enjoy it!

On a side note, would you not be better getting a cheaper Ph1 for track??? Cups worth buying are fetching good money, I wouldn't want to risk £4k - £5k's worth of car on the track personally, then again, I don't have a spare £900 per month so maybe £5k to you is the equivelant to £2.5k to me!!! lol.

I hope you get a nice car and have fun on the track!

I'm still a ways off from buying the car yet, but the 172 Cups I'm looking at are around 3.5K.

I'm still exploring my options though, and I was very tempted by Brown Bear's (?) Ph1 172, especially as it was pre-prepared for the track.

I'll just see what I can get for my money when I'm ready to buy.

Good shouts on the wet track days though and R888s. My goal is not necessarily to 'go fast', but to have fun trying.

 

[.GAZ.]

http://www.cliosport.net/forum/showthread.php?t=521091

Buy that!

 

[The Psychedelic Socialist]

http://www.cliosport.net/forum/showthread.php?t=521091

Buy that!

If I had a few £k lying about, I'd be tempted

As usual though, I've ploughed ahead with the planning, when realistically, it'll be another 9 months before I'm in a position to buy (need to clear a few debts first).

 

[Lee.]

Front Discs, Brembo HC (10 track days), £55/pair
Front Pads, CLs (5 track days), £110/pair

I'm pretty sure I've heard a few of the guys on here saying that with this combination, the discs will wear at an increased rate compared to the pads i.e. you will need to change the discs before the pads.

I may be wrong though

 

[TimR26]

What you've listed sounds about right apart from budgeting for when things break. Full breakdown cover comes in handy as well. Last day I did car broke, needed to get a friend to recover my car and had £300 bill for fixing it.

 

[Porkie]

depends how hard you drive the car.... I am BRUTAL with mine and am far from a 'sunday driver' so the bills rack up very fast!

also depends what condition it is to so start with as well.

topmounts, engine and gearbox mounts, bottom ball joints etc etc...

a cheap cup may well be a cheap car for a reason.

I know nothing about Brown bears one but if its already been a trackcar, then it may well have had alot of parts already changed.

Good choice on car. They are GREAT fun!

I am at Brands Hatch of monday. Full GP circuit if you want a passenger ride come along.

and I totally disagree about the R888's. I love em and would just hate doing a trackday on standard tyres!

would be like playing football in rollerskates!

 

[DanFreemanPhoto]

I havent read much of the posts in this thread, but the figures in the OP post are WAY out.

888s lasting only three trackdays! WTF! I bought a half worn set of 888s, and done 4 trackdays on them, they have only worn a tiny bit.

If you look after the tyres throughout the day, theres no reason why they shouldnt last 10-15+ days, maybe more (from my experience).

As for pads/discs, if your spending £180+ on pads, they are going to be very high spec track pads, which are as tough as coffin nails. You will probably go through about 3 discs per set of pads, but the pads should still last a very long time, depending on how much abuse you give them, and if you look after them.

The fuel itself, I spent £90 yesterday at Oulton (full day), and that covered the full day on track and the 170 miles to get there and back. 182 economy ftw

 

[Weeman]

I did 50 laps of the ring on a set of new 888's and they were barely worn when i got rid. Unless you are using the soft compound ones, If you buy them, buy GG.

I did Rockingham early this year, trackday cost, fuel, Hotel for two nights so I can have a beer and not get up at 4am, and flighst over, all in 800 quid lol

 

[Porkie]

I havent read much of the posts in this thread, but the figures in the OP post are WAY out.

888s lasting only three trackdays! WTF! I bought a half worn set of 888s, and done 4 trackdays on them, they have only worn a tiny bit.

try driving the car harder!

I will show you before and after pics of ONE day at brands next monday if you like on a BRAND new set of R888's

I would be VERY lucky to get 3 days from a set!!!!

BUT if the guy is a steadyish driver then maybe 3 is a bit ott...

10-15 is silly though! my mum could kill a set in 6 I reckon


if you wanna budget stuff its always best to 'err' on the side of caution surely? not be optimistic?

I try not to budget or think about stuff... that just makes it double painful! as first you have to think about spending it... then you have to actually spend it :clown:

 

[Weeman]

try driving the car harder!

I will show you before and after pics of ONE day at brands next monday if you like on a BRAND new set of R888's

I would be VERY lucky to get 3 days from a set!!!!

BUT if the guy is a steadyish driver then maybe 3 is a bit ott...

10-15 is silly though! my mum could kill a set in 6 I reckon


if you wanna budget stuff its always best to 'err' on the side of caution surely? not be optimistic?

I try not to budget or think about stuff... that just makes it double painful! as first you have to think about spending it... then you have to actually spend it :clown:

Not GG's then or your driving style needs to be toned down, or stop doing trackdays in a 3 ton car.

 

[Fred@BTM]

i did a new pair of 888's in 1 day, too much sideways charlie action LOL

this thread so far assumes your not going to break anything, you will

gearboxes are consumables, clutches last well if (and only if) you heal and toe

wheel bearings
discs
pads
fluids

bent stubs, and rear beams

all par for the course, not a cheap hobby!

 

[chrispy.clio]

Tyre wear is all down to your suspension set up. If you dont have a good suspension set up then a track day will eat tyres.

My last set of R888's lasted 4 trackdays 3 were air field trackdays where the ground is really rough so it really did eat tyres down to the canvas (also did about 5-6k on the road too) So mine lasted forever!

Stick to normal trackdays and stuff will last a lot longer.

I use CL pads and i'm on my 3rd set of Brembo Max discs. Just make sure to take apart and clean the brakes every 5-6 months as when the foook up the pads will eat discs very quickly. I didnt check my brakes after fitting new discs and they only laster 300mils and they were dangerously foooked.

 

[Porkie]

depends if you drive the cars non stop at the trackday... or just do few hot laps and then calm down to save the tires.

I don't... I drive it until I get tired or bored!

as I said I am BRUTAL with the car and tyres!

and it costs me.

I could easily calm down and make tyres and brakes and other stuff last.... but I dont want to


50 laps of the Ring is not that hard on tyres for me though as I only drive at 7/10ths there...

not 11/10ths like I do somewhere like bedford!

 

[Porkie]

i did a new pair of 888's in 1 day, too much sideways charlie action LOL

1 day!!! I like your style! :star:

 

[DanFreemanPhoto]

I do look after my 'wearables'. I do maybe 10 laps, then do a complete lap as a cool down, then come in. Check tyre pressures are ok, have a break for anywhere from 10-20mins, then go back out.

It might be as hardcore as some people on here, but my tyres last a long time. For me, you don't gain anything from driving like a hero ALL day, you just end up with a much thinner wallet.

My 2c

 

[Porkie]

For me, you don't gain anything from driving like a hero ALL day, you just end up with a much thinner wallet.

My 2c

I have more fun I guess?

but yes... its does cost more. Exponentially more as well!


doing any kind of trackday in a clio is fun though


your way is alot kinder to the car and wallet though as well I agree!

 

[sussex_gti]

I'd say you can wipe rear discs and pads off that list, you really wont go through them, providing the calipers are in good shape.

On the note of tyres, i'd imagine with quite a few tracks having a majority of left or right handers, you could swap tyres side to side or corner to corner, and even out the wear on them? Instead of, say, leaving them as they are for 2-3 trackdays, wearing out the n/s/f, then having to replace that tyre with a new one, and possibly upsetting the car? Just a thought.

As has been mentioned, you'll probably need to spend a fair bit getting most Clio's up to shape for the track. Engine mounts, track rods and ends, lower arm bushes, shocks all round are all things i'd consider changing before heading on the track, unless I knew the previous owner, or the car had great history/past track prep. The last thing you want is failiure of a component on track (I know things happen, but you can go a long way to prevent this) and potentially end up out of pocket with recovery costs or armco replacement!

 

[gashead1105]

I do look after my 'wearables'. I do maybe 10 laps, then do a complete lap as a cool down, then come in. Check tyre pressures are ok, have a break for anywhere from 10-20mins, then go back out.

It might be as hardcore as some people on here, but my tyres last a long time. For me, you don't gain anything from driving like a hero ALL day, you just end up with a much thinner wallet.

My 2c

This is the way I approach it too. Don't do more than 20 minute stints, always do a full cool down lap (without touching the brakes on hot days). I find the tyres go off anyway after about 15/20 minutes anyway, regardless of what you are running. On a hot day, I also take half an hour breaks between stints - I'm there to have fun, not wear myself or the car out.

 

[sussex_gti]

This is the way I approach it too. Don't do more than 20 minute stints, always do a full cool down lap (without touching the brakes on hot days). I find the tyres go off anyway after about 15/20 minutes anyway, regardless of what you are running. On a hot day, I also take half an hour breaks between stints - I'm there to have fun, not wear myself or the car out.

Eactly. Your never going to be the quickest one out there in a Clio, or set the fastest lap times. Unless your very experienced on track (not saying the OP isn't!) just go out, have fun and enjoy yourself, and dont bin it.

 

[Alex H]

Most points already covered, but a little edit of this point.

Tuition - it's about £25 for 20 minutes/half an hour. Have as much as you can afford!

Tuition is pretty much required for anyone new to track driving. You won't be quick without it and you'll probably end up putting more wear and tear through the car if you don't know the proper techniques.

Best idea would be to get a trackday regular to sit alongside you to start with, to get a rough idea of the right lines then pay an instructor to fine tune. Can't emphasise how important it will be to your driving on track.

 

[Weeman]

Is your track car actually running yet mate lol

 

[chrispy.clio]

Is your track car actually running yet mate lol

I dont think he's bought one yet!

 

[The Psychedelic Socialist]

I'm pretty sure I've heard a few of the guys on here saying that with this combination, the discs will wear at an increased rate compared to the pads i.e. you will need to change the discs before the pads.

Maybe worth considering DS2500s then?

Full breakdown cover comes in handy as well.

Good shout, but I'd add that into my annual costs like insurance and tax.

topmounts, engine and gearbox mounts, bottom ball joints etc etc...

If I get a vanilla 172, these'll be on the shopping list. Otherwise it'll probably be a modded one with these done already.

gearboxes are consumables, clutches last well if (and only if) you heal and toe

Any idea how long I'd get out of a gearbox & clutch then? What about costs?

Tyre wear is all down to your suspension set up. If you dont have a good suspension set up then a track day will eat tyres.

I use CL pads and i'm on my 3rd set of Brembo Max discs. Just make sure to take apart and clean the brakes every 5-6 months as when the foook up the pads will eat discs very quickly. I didnt check my brakes after fitting new discs and they only laster 300mils and they were dangerously foooked.

Ideally I want it sitting on KW2s (or similar), and will initially probably focus more on handling than power.

Good shout on the discs, I'll make sure I keep them checked out.

As has been mentioned, you'll probably need to spend a fair bit getting most Clio's up to shape for the track. Engine mounts, track rods and ends, lower arm bushes, shocks all round are all things i'd consider changing before heading on the track, unless I knew the previous owner, or the car had great history/past track prep. The last thing you want is failiure of a component on track (I know things happen, but you can go a long way to prevent this) and potentially end up out of pocket with recovery costs or armco replacement!

I'm planning on taking it to a sympathetic tuner to give it the once over after purchasing. Pointless to blow money on roll-cages and bucket seats if the steering rack is rotten etc.

Eactly. Your never going to be the quickest one out there in a Clio, or set the fastest lap times. Unless your very experienced on track (not saying the OP isn't!) just go out, have fun and enjoy yourself, and dont bin it.

I'm definitely not very experienced. I did two track days in my Focus ST, and had tuition both times, but I appreciate I've still got a LOT to learn.

Is your track car actually running yet mate lol

It's definitely running.... for someone, somewhere... Hopefuly looking to buy early next year, but I wanted to get a good idea of costs well in advance.