Common problems not solved by normal methods... rattle and oil leak.

[whom]

Hi guys,

I've recently picked up a 182 FF and it is a great little car. There are a couple of issues with it that I'd appreciate some opinions on if you've got a minute. I've looked all over this forum and nothing seems to be solving it.

1 - Rattle
The rattle is a mettalicy and sounds like it is coming from the engine and only heard when the car is
A - partially warm up to fully warm
B - accelerating
C - 3000rpm upwards
Now I've climbed under the car and all the heat shields are where they should be. I can't find any locations where there appears to be contact on any of the exhaust (manifold included). I have moved the engine mount forwards 10mm, no difference. I have raised the engine 4mm (washers under mount) and no difference. If it was contact I would expect that to change it for better or worse. The dogbone looks to be in reasonable shape. The alternator bracket is tight as is the injector guard and the ECU bracket isn't broken.

So my current thoughts are that it could be a belt pulley bearing or even knocking.... if anyone is wondering what I class as mettalicy then here is a recording. I hope the sound can be heard, it isn't very loud.
https://dl.dropbox.com/u/15177330/Hosted/My recording #5.wav

Any suggestions?

2- Oil leak
Another problem I believe is common. This one has been around since the cambelt was done three years and 36k miles ago. The two MOTs since give oil leak as an advisory. The leak is somewhere under the cambelt cover, not huge amounts of oil but over three years it has got all over the place. I cleaned up under the engine mount bracket but looking today, 300 miles later, there is a fair amount of oil under there again. The belt was done by Nationwide Autocentre Letchworth... reputable?

Why would a cambelt change trigger an oil leak? I can't seem to find the camseals to buy online, and how tough would it be to change them if I was to do the belts?

I am thinking I might just do the belts and see where the oil is coming from at the same time. Or since I'm living near Warwick I might give Fred from Birmingham a call. I'm worried what the oil will have done to the belts, they are both covered in the stuff.



Thanks in advance guys. Once I get to know my car properly I'll be in a position to offer advice rather than just seek it!

 

[Mike@Rentech]

Belt looks like is soaked up oil and as to noise take it to a local specialist.
nationwide for a cambelt ... Got a customer taking legal proceedings with them, need I say more?

 

[Mike@Rentech]

My advise is go and see Fred , job done !!

 

[whom]

Need you say more? No! I wish you'd said less in fact haha

I'll give Fred a call tomorrow, anyone know if he works Saturdays?

 

[sbridgey]

Freds out of the country until next month, Zoltan should be there if you ring the landline.

 

[ben_r1]

Will the constant contact with oil not degrade the belts material possibly making it more prone to premature failure?

 

[aucky]

Fitted the cam seals the wrong way round?

 

[Darren S]

Will the constant contact with oil not degrade the belts material possibly making it more prone to premature failure?

Potentially - I would have thought? Maybe made worse too by the motion and tension on the belt? (sorry for sounding all doom & gloom)

D.

 

[whom]

I thought perhaps the oil would degrade it but I don't know how severely. You'd think that the rubber compound would be resilient... Both belts are due in 2 years and the aux belt is due in 8k so it will need doing in my ownership most likely.

Don't know about the seals Aucky, I can't even find them online to see what they look like! Is putting them on the wrong way round a common mistake?

I'm starting to think I might do it myself. I'm up for the challenge and if I could find a used set of the tools I might save a few quid. Or new they are only (only?!) £80.

So the question is, should I do the dephaser while I am in there? I can get the timing belt, dephaser and aux belt for around £300. Or no dephaser for £210 ish.



And this rattle, does anyone else suffer? It is doing my head in!

 

[Matt e]

I think that nationwide autocentre is now a halfords autocentre

 

[whom]

That same garage did the MOT and quoted £761 to fix one of the advisories... centre exhaust section slightly blowing.

 

[Sam@NP]

Give us a ring in the week any time after 10:30am. We are not working Saturdays until the boss is back.

Looks like cam seals or dephaser plug leaking.

0121 783 6692

 

[whom]

Ok Sam, will do. Does he know you guys are slacking off while he is away....?

 

[Dan519]

in Letchworth you're 15 minutes from me!!!

 

[Matt e]

The op is from Warwick

 

[Dan519]

i read the whole post and missed that.....lol

 

[whom]

Yep the car spent it's youth over in the Cambridge area and now it's Warwick way.

Some more info on the rattle!

It isn't present when I first start driving the car, regardless of engine temp. So from cold it won't rattle and if I drove it half an hour before it still won't rattle when I first start driving. The rattle kicks in after a few minutes. So it is something that cools down quickly and heats up quickly. I'm thinking perhaps it is the cat? Anyone else had a cat rattle?

 

[si_hartlepool]

I have the same rattle by the sounds of things. Mine only happens under load.

Would love to find out what it is; it's driving me maaaaaad!!

 

[whom]

I'll let you know if I solve it. My suspicions are cat or silencer. I'm thinking of decatting it and I have a mate who will lend me his centre section. I'll keep this thread updated

Got a quote from BTM, seems fair but I'm still tempted to do it myself. There is enough info out there but it is a pretty huge and critical job.

 

[si_hartlepool]

I'll let you know if I solve it. My suspicions are cat or silencer. I'm thinking of decatting it and I have a mate who will lend me his centre section. I'll keep this thread updated.

Thanks mate

 

[darkbluesheep]

Sounds like a similar rattle to what i had when i first got my 172 cup. at first thought it was the shitty exhaust baffels that had blown because it only rattled between 3-4K revs, but turned out to be the cat to manifold join was a bit f*cked and adter replacing that it cured the problem. Not saying thats definitely the issue but might be worth a look...

Yep the car spent it's youth over in the Cambridge area and now it's Warwick way.

Some more info on the rattle!

It isn't present when I first start driving the car, regardless of engine temp. So from cold it won't rattle and if I drove it half an hour before it still won't rattle when I first start driving. The rattle kicks in after a few minutes. So it is something that cools down quickly and heats up quickly. I'm thinking perhaps it is the cat? Anyone else had a cat rattle?

 

[whom]

Thanks for the tip. Bought that gasket, went to fit it, the old one was as good as new. It had been replaced in Jan I found on the paperwork along with a new centre section. Perhaps the old owner was chasing the same rattle....

 

[daveypower]

I had a rattle like that once, piece of the lamba sensor had falling of and was blocked against the cat, making it rattle as the rpms climbed. I went for a de-cat, i was there when the cat was taking out and the piece just feel out, sorted.

what i did was ramp the car up, lay underneath an got someone to rev the car, soon figured out where the rattle was.

 

[darkbluesheep]

Gutted.

Mine wasnt just the gasket though it was the actual nuts, bolts, and spring that hold the cat pipe to the manifold that had given up. Other than that take it to the pro's yo!

 

[whom]

I had a look in the end of the cat Daveypower and the sensor is where it should be and in one piece.

I've spoken to a previous owner because he had bought a new centre silencer. I explained the rattle and he said he had the same one and that fixed it. It then developed again at the owner inbetween us so the one on it is new. I smashed the crap out of it with a hammer and the rattle is less now. Some more smashing needed.

I've also booked in the cambelt with BTM

 

[daveypower]

Nice one man, it would be worth your while if you have the tools to take the exhaust of and give it a good shaking to see if you hear it also, it does sound like something got stuck, or a bit has broken of inside.

 

[whom]

I did take it off and it doesn't make any rattle. It's only as it gets hot! Pain in the arse.

The silencer is made of a pipe with perforations through the middle surrounded by metal fibres. That pipe is what I believe is rattling as it may not be welded to the main pipe, just wrapped around. I'll draw a picture of its construction when I get a minute. My Dad still thinks it's pinking... I need to eliminate the rattle completely to convince him otherwise (and myself completely...)

 

[daveypower]

yea i know what you mean about the silencer, your well on your way to sorting it anyway, cat could have broken internaly also, but if you think its the silencer then stick with it, i hate any kind of rattle

 

[whom]

SO

I've had the belts done and Fred found the oil leak cause. When doing the cambelt Nationwide Autocentre put both an exhaust cam seal and inlet cam seal on the inlet side so the dephaser sat out where it shouldn't and the seals didn't work.... The timing was also well out, Fred has the photos and I'll post them up when he gives them to me (and my injector guard rail that must be sat in the garage somewhere!!!!!).

It sounds better now the timing is correct. It's got an MOT and an oil change was part of the job. She's all good for a thrashing now.

 

[daveypower]

so was it pinking mate?

 

[whom]

I'm not sure. I meant the general engine noise has improved but that isn't what I wrote.. my bad. The exhaust cam was somewhere around 4 degrees advanced by the looks of it! Since it goes round at half speed that is 8 degrees of crank angle! (Right?)

There is still a rattle but I can't tell if it is better, could be. I'm still convinced it was/is the silencer box but it is not bothering me any more.

I don't think the exhaust cam being out would cause pinking. It opens before combustion is complete and closes before all the gasses have gone, but I suppose that could cause trouble.... Who knows.

Fitted a set of Alpine SXE (1350 front 1325 rear) today so now I can drown out nosie easier

 

[Rhauri]

Did anyone solve the engine rattle under load / accelerating?

 

[si_hartlepool]

My cat wasn't fitted securely at the centre box end. I fitted a decat and that solved it.

 

[whom]

Quick update.

It wasn't pinking, the plugs look fine:

I fitted a decat and that "switched it off" i.e. the rattle appeared to go. I couldn't live with the noise so I put the cat back on and it returned.

I tried putting a tiny bit of exhaust putty against the cat honeycomb to stop the rattle but it didn't work.

I then removed the silencer and it appears to have changed when the rattle appears, as in, it happens at higher revs and less pronounced. BUT I now have new and weird high pitched noise. Almost like turbulent air and only at 5K revs and upwards. That switched off when I put the silencer back.

Decided I am sick of trying things so I currently have the cat in and centre silencer out. All sounds good up until around 5K revs and then it's a little rattly and squeaky.

REMINDER: I know you all know of this problem but.... check both bonnet latches are operating smoothly and not sticking. Had a mate whos flew up at 60mph and it can't hurt to remind people!