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Golf GTD Mk7
Re: James/BigAsh 182 Race Car by TDF... It doesn't get much better than this! *Pic He
Cheers mate. Makes sense. Sounds like James car will be like a christmas tree
Cheers mate. Makes sense. Sounds like James car will be like a christmas tree
Re: James/BigAsh 182 Race Car by TDF... It doesn't get much better than this! *Pic He
Are you going to fit a cooler aswell?
The extra capacity will obviously help but I would have my doubts if it will totally cure the issue, might just last a little while longer before it overheats.
Given the cars intended use I would put a small oil cooler in there, if packaged neatly (as is the rest of the car) the weight increase will be negligible and will give you peace of mind that it's not going to cause an issue in future.
The pump itself is more than capable of pretty much anything you care to throw at it, as long as the fluid is kept at a sensible temperature. The other thing that may be worth considering is an underdriven pulley for the pump, not looked into it on these cars but if the engine spends most of it's time at 7k rpm+ the pump will be working harder than it needs to, therefor pumping more fluid round and putting more heat into it which quickly becomes it's downfall.
Are you going to fit a cooler aswell?
The extra capacity will obviously help but I would have my doubts if it will totally cure the issue, might just last a little while longer before it overheats.
Given the cars intended use I would put a small oil cooler in there, if packaged neatly (as is the rest of the car) the weight increase will be negligible and will give you peace of mind that it's not going to cause an issue in future.
The pump itself is more than capable of pretty much anything you care to throw at it, as long as the fluid is kept at a sensible temperature. The other thing that may be worth considering is an underdriven pulley for the pump, not looked into it on these cars but if the engine spends most of it's time at 7k rpm+ the pump will be working harder than it needs to, therefor pumping more fluid round and putting more heat into it which quickly becomes it's downfall.
Evo 5 RS
Re: James/BigAsh 182 Race Car by TDF... It doesn't get much better than this! *Pic He
60 amps!!!!
60 amps!!!!
182cup & 172 racecar
Re: James/BigAsh 182 Race Car by TDF... It doesn't get much better than this! *Pic He
I nearly understood that.
I nearly understood that.
Re: James/BigAsh 182 Race Car by TDF... It doesn't get much better than this! *Pic He
Thanks
I don't think so for now Kenny, I think we will see if it can work successfully without so we will increase the tank size and I will ask Matt about some more heat shielding then give it some stick at Donington with long runs and see how it holds up. We will keep a close eye on the temps and if it is then a recurring problem then we will have a look at possible rectifications I think as you say the oil cooler will be the best way to go but I don't want to put one on unless it needs one
Thanks
Clio,Rush,180SX,205
Re: James/BigAsh 182 Race Car by TDF... It doesn't get much better than this! *Pic He
Can you fit a bigger pulley to the PAS pump to underdrive it ? that ought to take some heat out ? PAS fuild cooler kit from driftworks would also be easy to adapt to fit, save buying all the bits seperately.
Can you fit a bigger pulley to the PAS pump to underdrive it ? that ought to take some heat out ? PAS fuild cooler kit from driftworks would also be easy to adapt to fit, save buying all the bits seperately.
Re: James/BigAsh 182 Race Car by TDF... It doesn't get much better than this! *Pic He
I appreciate you don't want to be adding stuff to the car if it's not 100% needed but given past experience most hydraulic power steering systems need some form of cooler, even as standard most cars have something to help get some heat out of the fluid, I was quite surprised to find the Clio doesnt really have anything which may explain why people who track them have issues with the pump and or ultimately the rack.
On road cars it's quite common just to have a simple loop of aluminium tube on the return line from the rack, normally sits infront of the radiator or along the edge of the subframe, might not seem significant but even something like that can be enough to keep temps under control.
A section of the feed line to the pump on a clio is ally but it's not going to see much in the way of cool air to do anything, infact it's going to get hot air off the rad!
If the car is getting used on track for anymore than 15-20 mins at a time I would say some sort of power steering cooler was advisable, increasing the capacity of the system will help but if there's no way to get the heat out, you're just delaying the inevitable.
I dont want to sound or come across as being negative, just what I've gained over the years, your car is very nicely put together and as I said previously I wish you all the best with it, just trying to save you some time and help you get it ready soon as.
Kenny.
I appreciate you don't want to be adding stuff to the car if it's not 100% needed but given past experience most hydraulic power steering systems need some form of cooler, even as standard most cars have something to help get some heat out of the fluid, I was quite surprised to find the Clio doesnt really have anything which may explain why people who track them have issues with the pump and or ultimately the rack.
On road cars it's quite common just to have a simple loop of aluminium tube on the return line from the rack, normally sits infront of the radiator or along the edge of the subframe, might not seem significant but even something like that can be enough to keep temps under control.
A section of the feed line to the pump on a clio is ally but it's not going to see much in the way of cool air to do anything, infact it's going to get hot air off the rad!
If the car is getting used on track for anymore than 15-20 mins at a time I would say some sort of power steering cooler was advisable, increasing the capacity of the system will help but if there's no way to get the heat out, you're just delaying the inevitable.
I dont want to sound or come across as being negative, just what I've gained over the years, your car is very nicely put together and as I said previously I wish you all the best with it, just trying to save you some time and help you get it ready soon as.
Kenny.
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Re: James/BigAsh 182 Race Car by TDF... It doesn't get much better than this! *Pic He
No it doesn't sound like that at all and you have a lot more experience than I do at this and so I really value and appreciate your input! Thank you and I will speak with Matt to determine which method to take and will update once this has been done Thanks again and I hope work on yours is going well today as saw the updates last night and it's looking good!!
Thanks for the drift works recommendation I have just had a look and seems like a decent kit
I didn't realise that it didn't have any cooler as standard which as you say probably explains the issue, Yes I think I saw this pipe at the weekend so I know which you mean and it is in a fairly vulnerable place for taking heat in.
No it doesn't sound like that at all and you have a lot more experience than I do at this and so I really value and appreciate your input! Thank you and I will speak with Matt to determine which method to take and will update once this has been done
Thanks again and I hope work on yours is going well today as saw the updates last night and it's looking good!!Re: James/BigAsh 182 Race Car by TDF... It doesn't get much better than this! *Pic He
Corsa B electric column is readily available secondhand for under a 100 quid and the controllers for them can be had very cheaply if you just go for a basic one.
Obviously there is a cost of fabrication time to fit though, and wether you are happy with secondhand parts, so might not be relevant to this particular build but just thought I'd throw into the mix as different options were being discussed.
Corsa B electric column is readily available secondhand for under a 100 quid and the controllers for them can be had very cheaply if you just go for a basic one.
Obviously there is a cost of fabrication time to fit though, and wether you are happy with secondhand parts, so might not be relevant to this particular build but just thought I'd throw into the mix as different options were being discussed.
Re: James/BigAsh 182 Race Car by TDF... It doesn't get much better than this! *Pic He
If its not going to cost you much to fit a bigger reservoir then I dont suppose it can hurt to try it and see but a cooler would be a fit and forget solution. There's nothing worse than having something like this ruin a weekend and cost you a potential points scoring result, £50-60 for the cooler, a few fittings and some hose, all in probably cost you £150 tops depending on what hoses etc you use.
If its not going to cost you much to fit a bigger reservoir then I dont suppose it can hurt to try it and see but a cooler would be a fit and forget solution. There's nothing worse than having something like this ruin a weekend and cost you a potential points scoring result, £50-60 for the cooler, a few fittings and some hose, all in probably cost you £150 tops depending on what hoses etc you use.
Re: James/BigAsh 182 Race Car by TDF... It doesn't get much better than this! *Pic He
Thanks again
Thanks mate, I have no issues with using used parts so could be an option
Yes I see what your saying Kenny and will have a good look into it and work out with Matt what to do. The kit that was mentioned on driftworks was only £60 odd so pretty cheap solution if it will do the job
Thanks againRe: James/BigAsh 182 Race Car by TDF... It doesn't get much better than this! *Pic He
On some cars they just use a metal pipe that goes to the grill area of the car (good airflow) and then loops around and comes back, gives a slight increase in capacity, and a good increase in cooling, and weighs next to nothing and doesnt cost anything.
Something else worth considering if its only a bit of an issue currently not a massive problem.
On some cars they just use a metal pipe that goes to the grill area of the car (good airflow) and then loops around and comes back, gives a slight increase in capacity, and a good increase in cooling, and weighs next to nothing and doesnt cost anything.
Something else worth considering if its only a bit of an issue currently not a massive problem.
Re: James/BigAsh 182 Race Car by TDF... It doesn't get much better than this! *Pic He
Yes I have seen this in the past Chip on cars but I think with very long runs with that solution it could potentially still be an issue! If it was just a normal track car doing 20 mins at a time then it wouldn't be much of an issue but its for the prolonged usage we need to plan for Thanks everyone for the advice and once we are sorted then I will update with results!
Yes I have seen this in the past Chip on cars but I think with very long runs with that solution it could potentially still be an issue! If it was just a normal track car doing 20 mins at a time then it wouldn't be much of an issue but its for the prolonged usage we need to plan for
Thanks everyone for the advice and once we are sorted then I will update with results!
182cup & 172 racecar
Re: James/BigAsh 182 Race Car by TDF... It doesn't get much better than this! *Pic He
Matt has already said that the electrics are to be maxed out with other things.
Matt has already said that the electrics are to be maxed out with other things.
Evo 5 RS
Re: James/BigAsh 182 Race Car by TDF... It doesn't get much better than this! *Pic He
60amps :|
60amps :|
NorthloopCup
ClioSport Moderator
Re: James/BigAsh 182 Race Car by TDF... It doesn't get much better than this! *Pic He
This tbh!
This tbh!
Re: James/BigAsh 182 Race Car by TDF... It doesn't get much better than this! *Pic He
/\/\/\/\/\
THIS!! if theres an issue, Matt will address it.....
AFTER!! he`s wired my car hahahahha
/\/\/\/\/\
THIS!! if theres an issue, Matt will address it.....
AFTER!! he`s wired my car hahahahha
Re: James/BigAsh 182 Race Car by TDF... It doesn't get much better than this! *Pic He
Yes exactly, from what he said on Saturday he has seen it happen before and instantly had many suggestions on how to resolve it! Matt has so much knowledge and experience of these cars I know it will be sorted in the blink of an eye! I'm certainly not worrying about it! Just want to get out driving it again
Haha Stu mines in no rush we've got until the 17th of Feb till it's back out
Yes exactly, from what he said on Saturday he has seen it happen before and instantly had many suggestions on how to resolve it! Matt has so much knowledge and experience of these cars I know it will be sorted in the blink of an eye! I'm certainly not worrying about it! Just want to get out driving it again
Haha Stu mines in no rush we've got until the 17th of Feb till it's back out
Re: James/BigAsh 182 Race Car by TDF... It doesn't get much better than this! *Pic He
good stuff... is it still over there?? i think i`m heading over there saturday to do a few bits to mine... maybe catch a pint @ the saddle or a chinese... depends on Matt + Al`s workload...
good stuff... is it still over there?? i think i`m heading over there saturday to do a few bits to mine... maybe catch a pint @ the saddle or a chinese... depends on Matt + Al`s workload...
Re: James/BigAsh 182 Race Car by TDF... It doesn't get much better than this! *Pic He
It certainly is mate It's staying with Matt until the 17th and then I will take it home after the trackday subject to everything going to plan! Sounds good! The workshop looks great after the refit and must be a very nice place to work ! Hope you manage to drag them away and get them to the pub, I owe them both a few drinks at some point
It certainly is mate
It's staying with Matt until the 17th and then I will take it home after the trackday subject to everything going to plan! Sounds good! The workshop looks great after the refit and must be a very nice place to work ! Hope you manage to drag them away and get them to the pub, I owe them both a few drinks at some point Re: James/BigAsh 182 Race Car by TDF... It doesn't get much better than this! *Pic He
yeah, the office looks miles better... and the area above the dyno cell frees up/creates a lot of room now... as for the new flooring in the dyno cell, well, it looks nicer but i think Spanky`s knees might not like it after a RR day on strapping duties hahaha
yeah, the office looks miles better... and the area above the dyno cell frees up/creates a lot of room now... as for the new flooring in the dyno cell, well, it looks nicer but i think Spanky`s knees might not like it after a RR day on strapping duties hahaha
Re: James/BigAsh 182 Race Car by TDF... It doesn't get much better than this! *Pic He
various bits of loom and stock when i was up there last,
by now??? probably a selection of destroyed gearboxes from Matts car and a sleeping bag for Al....... haha
various bits of loom and stock when i was up there last,
by now??? probably a selection of destroyed gearboxes from Matts car and a sleeping bag for Al....... haha
Re: James/BigAsh 182 Race Car by TDF... It doesn't get much better than this! *Pic He
Corsa B column is a no go on an endurance car with hot sticky slicks and lots of steering action. The motor just isn't big enough and you get to the point of thermal related failures (or thermal shut down if you still have the stock EPAS ECU) after a relatively short time running. Been there, tried that, have the data
Corsa C column is better (bigger wheels etc. etc. as standard) but still not quite man enough. The DC system is very good and actually contains some corsa bits but the gearbox is totally different, controller allows big amp initials etc. and the motor has a big, big heatsink!
The TRW systems used in the X85 are great and seriously beefy bits of kit, the road car one from the 197/200 is very nearly as good but a PITA to run in a race car as it's entirely CAN based and wants to see wheel speed, wheel position, steering angle etc. before it will work in anything but default assist mode.
There's lots of options with regards modding the Corsa stuff but by the time you're done you've spent the same as a decent, warrantied, well supported and motorsportp proven system and when the stock hyd setup is fine with a larger header tank why bother?
I'll have a tenner on it now big tank with an internal deaerator and it'll be absolute mustard
Corsa B column is a no go on an endurance car with hot sticky slicks and lots of steering action. The motor just isn't big enough and you get to the point of thermal related failures (or thermal shut down if you still have the stock EPAS ECU) after a relatively short time running. Been there, tried that, have the data
Corsa C column is better (bigger wheels etc. etc. as standard) but still not quite man enough. The DC system is very good and actually contains some corsa bits but the gearbox is totally different, controller allows big amp initials etc. and the motor has a big, big heatsink!
The TRW systems used in the X85 are great and seriously beefy bits of kit, the road car one from the 197/200 is very nearly as good but a PITA to run in a race car as it's entirely CAN based and wants to see wheel speed, wheel position, steering angle etc. before it will work in anything but default assist mode.
There's lots of options with regards modding the Corsa stuff but by the time you're done you've spent the same as a decent, warrantied, well supported and motorsportp proven system and when the stock hyd setup is fine with a larger header tank why bother?
I'll have a tenner on it now big tank with an internal deaerator and it'll be absolute mustard
Golf GTD Mk7
Re: James/BigAsh 182 Race Car by TDF... It doesn't get much better than this! *Pic He
lol. Room with a view
lol. Room with a view
Re: James/BigAsh 182 Race Car by TDF... It doesn't get much better than this! *Pic He
I am very, very good at killing JC5's Paddle clutch plus hot A048's = boom!
I am very, very good at killing JC5's
Paddle clutch plus hot A048's = boom!
Evo 5 RS
Re: James/BigAsh 182 Race Car by TDF... It doesn't get much better than this! *Pic He
Bloody JC5s
Bloody JC5s
Re: James/BigAsh 182 Race Car by TDF... It doesn't get much better than this! *Pic He
I can almost justify a Sadev on the basis of massively reducing TDF internal labour charges
I can almost justify a Sadev on the basis of massively reducing TDF internal labour charges
Evo 5 RS
Re: James/BigAsh 182 Race Car by TDF... It doesn't get much better than this! *Pic He
Savage but ££
Savage but ££
Re: James/BigAsh 182 Race Car by TDF... It doesn't get much better than this! *Pic He
Especialy when one considers that I would HAVE to paddle shift it
Savage but ££
Especialy when one considers that I would HAVE to paddle shift it
Re: James/BigAsh 182 Race Car by TDF... It doesn't get much better than this! *Pic He
Interesting info thanks, Ive fitted it to a trackday car and not had a problem but like you say thats not endurance racing so not so long to build up heat, also know a few people with them on rally cars, but nowhere near the grip there obviously, although that said there is a lot more change in steering angle, lol
Corsa B column is a no go on an endurance car with hot sticky slicks and lots of steering action. The motor just isn't big enough and you get to the point of thermal related failures (or thermal shut down if you still have the stock EPAS ECU) after a relatively short time running. Been there, tried that, have the data
Interesting info thanks, Ive fitted it to a trackday car and not had a problem but like you say thats not endurance racing so not so long to build up heat, also know a few people with them on rally cars, but nowhere near the grip there obviously, although that said there is a lot more change in steering angle, lol
Yes Ive noticed the C stuff looks a bit more manly but not tried it yet myself, well other than driving standard corsa c's with it, lol
NorthloopCup
ClioSport Moderator
Re: James/BigAsh 182 Race Car by TDF... It doesn't get much better than this! *Pic He
What's the cost of one of these? I'd buy one definitely.
I'll have a tenner on it now big tank with an internal deaerator and it'll be absolute mustard
What's the cost of one of these? I'd buy one definitely.
Re: James/BigAsh 182 Race Car by TDF... It doesn't get much better than this! *Pic He
I know what you mean about the dyno floor it looks soft in the pictures but is surprisingly hard! Still I suppose its softer than concrete lol
Talking of stealing I still owe you a wiper arm!
Yes it certainly looks the part
I know what you mean about the dyno floor it looks soft in the pictures but is surprisingly hard! Still I suppose its softer than concrete lol Duplex penthouse with mezzanine IIRClol. Room with a view
Do it Matt and then I can steal it when you get boredI can almost justify a Sadev on the basis of massively reducing TDF internal labour charges
Talking of stealing I still owe you a wiper arm!
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182cup & 172 racecar
Re: James/BigAsh 182 Race Car by TDF... It doesn't get much better than this! *Pic He
Actually,thinking about it,our Saxo pump and reservoir (as it's all together), has a much larger capacity than standard anyway.
Forgot about that.
Actually,thinking about it,our Saxo pump and reservoir (as it's all together), has a much larger capacity than standard anyway.
Forgot about that.
Re: James/BigAsh 182 Race Car by TDF... It doesn't get much better than this! *Pic He
James, what you doing on Feb 28th?
Chip and Me are doing Bedford. Open pitlane. Will be a really good day. I'll have a few different cars there including my Clio.
Hope you can make it. Love to have a nose over the Clio, maybe a little tear up on track together!?!?!
Tony you around for it?
James, what you doing on Feb 28th?
Chip and Me are doing Bedford. Open pitlane. Will be a really good day. I'll have a few different cars there including my Clio.
Hope you can make it. Love to have a nose over the Clio, maybe a little tear up on track together!?!?!
Tony you around for it?
KTM 990 SD / S60 D5
Re: James/BigAsh 182 Race Car by TDF... It doesn't get much better than this! *Pic He
^Who is that with Porkie can't find anything for the 28th really fancy doing Bedford
^Who is that with Porkie can't find anything for the 28th really fancy doing Bedford
