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What 4X4 turbo engine conversion in a clio?
M3, Cup racer'd 182
Yes i want to be different so im swaying towards the celica but that's it parts is the main thing that keeps me thinking impreza :banghead:
Although i am going to buy a hole car as a donor so thats not the problem it's mainly aftermarket upgrades.
M3, Cup racer'd 182
Check this out surprisingly simillar apparently
http://www.cliosport.net/forum/showthread.php?613598-Rooby-Clio-172
182, 6r GTi
M3, Cup racer'd 182
Be damn that's quick!!
Although that's in a straight line, be good to see what it handles like round corners.
M3, Cup racer'd 182
Ok so here's the list and outcome of my search.
Gt4 Impreza Clio
Wheel
base| 2540mmEEC 2520mm 2472mm
2535mm non EEC
Lenth| 4420mm 4520mm 3812mm
Width| 1750mm 1705mm 1639mm
Power| 239 uk 240 uk
255 jap 282 jap
So longer difference are
Wheel 68mm EEC 48mm
Base 63mm non EEC
Lenth 609mm 709mm
Width 111mm 66mm
Obviously i don't mind having to get drive shafts/props cut and shortened if i have to.
Damn that didn't work wanted as a spread sheet
Gt4 Impreza Clio
Wheel
base| 2540mmEEC 2520mm 2472mm
2535mm non EEC
Lenth| 4420mm 4520mm 3812mm
Width| 1750mm 1705mm 1639mm
Power| 239 uk 240 uk
255 jap 282 jap
So longer difference are
Wheel 68mm EEC 48mm
Base 63mm non EEC
Lenth 609mm 709mm
Width 111mm 66mm
Obviously i don't mind having to get drive shafts/props cut and shortened if i have to.
Damn that didn't work wanted as a spread sheet
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Thats quite surprising about the front chassis rails, im fairly familiar with both the engine bays (172 and scooby) and would have expected a bigger difference than that.
I still think the Gt4 setup will sit more naturally in the space available though.
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M3, Cup racer'd 182
My minds made up Celica Gt4 is the donor
.That's also another thing that made me go with the Celica, the "flat four" in a scooby seams that its going to take loads of room width ways so less room for all the intercooler pipes and what not.
M3, Cup racer'd 182
I'll be fitting new parts like clutch,belts and a major service before i fit it so atleast i know it would be mechanically fine.
You have a gt4
, do you mind giving me a PM with your no so i can ring you regarding some measurements? (can't find the info on the net)Cheers Damien
You would barley get your foot down before the gearbox broke.
A better idea would be a kangoo 4*4 dci transplatee would be easier and different
The problem is the handling. so long as the gearboxes are linked properly if you think both engines will be doing the same revs so the same push in terms of power.
Weight in front of the wheels causes a lot of understeer during transition from cornering one direction to the other, but can then also translate into over steer as well once on a held line, any weight outside of the axle lines is generally a bad thing for handling.
The good thing about the scooby setup weight wise is the gearbox is much further back.
I doubt there is a lot in it weight distribution wise, but i would say if either had the edge its probably the subaru if anything, i'd still sooner go GT4 if it was me though, just in terms of stuff like having room for your feet on the pedals with a scooby box in the passenger compartment and stuff like that, although the YB mk1 prooves anything is possible
yep, anything is possible
let me know if you decide to go ahead mate. My St205 will be for sale in March (i only use it in the snow) The bodywork is not the best so it will be plenty cheap and just had a clutch, cambelt and service
or maybe i should put it all in a MK1?? hmmm lol
let me know if you decide to go ahead mate. My St205 will be for sale in March (i only use it in the snow) The bodywork is not the best so it will be plenty cheap
and just had a clutch, cambelt and service or maybe i should put it all in a MK1?? hmmm lol
M3, Cup racer'd 182
yep, anything is possible
let me know if you decide to go ahead mate. My St205 will be for sale in March (i only use it in the snow) The bodywork is not the best so it will be plenty cheap
or maybe i should put it all in a MK1?? hmmm lol
Lol
Happy days i'll bare that in mind however i'm already looking at one but the prices of these seam to differ quite alot some on ebay for 2grand with no bids and one is for 7grand so not sure what there worth, i'm looking at one thats got 134k all belts,service done and he wants £1400 the bodywork is alittle to good to attack it with a grinder but i was going to join a gt4 forum and sell on the extra bits that i dont need like the spoiler,bumpers,interior to get some cash back.
It would be ideal if i could find one smashed up the arse end.
Will prob hold fire on buying one as it will give me chance to find a big council unit for rent so i have space to buy a 182 shell and a Gt4 to start the work, might work out good timing when you become to sell yours.
LY Megane R26 230
C20LET form a Calibra/Cavaliar would be be say,nice small compact engine and quite easy to get power out of
The 4wd system isnt anywhere near as good as GT4 one though.
Although I have a Qrew transfer box for one in stock if his pockets are fairly deep
Was going to use it on the c20let mini i started building but thinking I might go fwd and vtec now instead to keep the weight down.
M3, Cup racer'd 182
Just checked the speck on a st185 and standard there only 205bhp so to get 350+bhp which is what i'll be aiming for will take abit of money, from research the st205 can easily get 300+bhp by replacing a few bits (possibly a jap import 255bhp std).
Quote below from Toyota owners club
Easy way to over 300bhp - Cooler grade 7 spark plugs, full service inc filters and all fluids (rad, charge cooler, engine oil, gearbox oil, dif oil, clutch fluid, brake fluid), performance panel filter or induction kit (as long as there is a good cold air supply), decat with a free flowing exhaust (eg Mongoose Full System & Auzzie Downpipe) and lastly a boost controller. Ideally you want an electronic one like a Blitz/HKS/Apexi as those cheap metal bleed valves arent perfect by a long shot.
Apparently 350bhp is the max the engine will take (stock internals) but if i was to spend a few grand i could get upto 400+ although i think 350bhp will be more than a handfull anyway.
As for the C20LET engine and drivetrain i had a mate that had a 4x4 turbo calibra and he had no ends of problems with it so put me of vauxhall's altogether. (apart from the monaro of course)
Quote below from Toyota owners club
Easy way to over 300bhp - Cooler grade 7 spark plugs, full service inc filters and all fluids (rad, charge cooler, engine oil, gearbox oil, dif oil, clutch fluid, brake fluid), performance panel filter or induction kit (as long as there is a good cold air supply), decat with a free flowing exhaust (eg Mongoose Full System & Auzzie Downpipe) and lastly a boost controller. Ideally you want an electronic one like a Blitz/HKS/Apexi as those cheap metal bleed valves arent perfect by a long shot.
Apparently 350bhp is the max the engine will take (stock internals) but if i was to spend a few grand i could get upto 400+ although i think 350bhp will be more than a handfull anyway
.As for the C20LET engine and drivetrain i had a mate that had a 4x4 turbo calibra and he had no ends of problems with it so put me of vauxhall's altogether. (apart from the monaro of course)
Although the standard power output is lower on the ST185, IIRC the internals are the same, but im not positive on that so check it our for yourself.
given that you'll probably be going on aftermarket management I assume, will have a different intercooler and probably a different turbo, you may find that all the advantages the ST205 has power wise become irrelevant as you wont be using enough of the standard setup anymore for it to still matter?
With regards to the vauxhall running gear, its reliable if you know what you are doing with it and keep it turned off when just crusing down the motorway and keep your tyre sizes even front to rear, so its not as bad as some people would leave you to believe, but it still wouldnt be my first choice and the upgraded transfer boxes are another grand gone too.
given that you'll probably be going on aftermarket management I assume, will have a different intercooler and probably a different turbo, you may find that all the advantages the ST205 has power wise become irrelevant as you wont be using enough of the standard setup anymore for it to still matter?
With regards to the vauxhall running gear, its reliable if you know what you are doing with it and keep it turned off when just crusing down the motorway and keep your tyre sizes even front to rear, so its not as bad as some people would leave you to believe, but it still wouldnt be my first choice and the upgraded transfer boxes are another grand gone too.
M3, Cup racer'd 182
Yes i've read that there is little differents between the st185/st205 (turbo,intercooler,ecu) but for the sake of a few hundred extra i might aswell get the st205 that way i wouldn't have to replace anything to get the same power as a st205 if you know what i mean.
I also like the bonnet vent on the st205 so i'll grind it out and weld it into the Clio bonnet just to piss the CS sheep off lol.
Not sure if there is any difference between the gearboxes but i've seen quite alot of the st185 upgrade to the st205 don't know why maybe stronger/better gear ratio's?.
It won't be for another 3months so no rush getting it anyway.
As for my friends calibra he did maintain it regardless of cost (he's a mechanic) so not sure maybe it was a Friday car that was rushed putting it together in the factory lol.
I also like the bonnet vent on the st205 so i'll grind it out and weld it into the Clio bonnet
just to piss the CS sheep off lol.Not sure if there is any difference between the gearboxes but i've seen quite alot of the st185 upgrade to the st205 don't know why maybe stronger/better gear ratio's?.
It won't be for another 3months so no rush getting it anyway.
As for my friends calibra he did maintain it regardless of cost (he's a mechanic) so not sure maybe it was a Friday car that was rushed putting it together in the factory lol.
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Yes i've read that there is little differents between the st185/st205 (turbo,intercooler,ecu) but for the sake of a few hundred extra i might aswell get the st205 that way i wouldn't have to replace anything to get the same power as a st205 if you know what i mean.
I also like the bonnet vent on the st205 so i'll grind it out and weld it into the Clio bonnet
Not sure if there is any difference between the gearboxes but i've seen quite alot of the st185 upgrade to the st205 don't know why maybe stronger/better gear ratio's?.
It won't be for another 3months so no rush getting it anyway.
As for my friends calibra he did maintain it regardless of cost (he's a mechanic) so not sure maybe it was a Friday car that was rushed putting it together in the factory lol.
People dont generally read the bit in the manual telling you that you must rotate tyres from front to the back in order to stop the transfer box from winding up on long journeys, and the standard car has no way of disconnecting the txb when you are on the motorway (well unless you pull out fuse 19) so its not something mechanics would generally be aware of unless they happen to be into vauxhalls (im staff for total vauxhall magazine and specialise in tuning the c20let engine so thats the only reason I know all this random stuff about them)
Even most dealers seemed to be largely ignorant and werent doing things like swapping the wheels front to back when the car came in for a service like they should have been etc.
M3, Cup racer'd 182
Yes i know what you mean, i'm a mechanic by trade (years ago) so was taught this when learning, maybe that's the problem with my friends car not once did i hear him saying that he has to swap the wheels over.
Genuine question being as the GT4 is 50/50 drive would i still have to swap the wheels from front to back often?
Thinking about it logically they'd wear the front/back the same would'nt they?
Genuine question being as the GT4 is 50/50 drive would i still have to swap the wheels from front to back often?
Thinking about it logically they'd wear the front/back the same would'nt they?
Its just not an issue in the same way, the GT4 has a centre diff which drives both ends of the car, where as the calibra setup the gearbox directly dirves the front of the car and then the rear just plays catchup by using slip to react to a different in wheel speed front to rear, so most of the time the calibra setup does nothing essentially, and only becomes "active" when the front wheels are spinning, this is why the tyre size is critical as if the front tyres are worn the system can then sit there trying to make the rear catch up with a speed greater than the front is actually doing which puts massive load on the VC and causes it to overheat.
They also suffer from hydraulic failure on the engagement and disengagement automatic clutch within the txb, something that again the celica doesnt have.
Its just a far superior system on the gt4 and will give you none of the same issues
Hello for the first post
I know it is an old post so and it's bad to dig posts, but I will.
Just did Kangoo 4x4 F4r 736 for myself
It was quite a journey through connecting it to 4x4 gearbox but I managed to do it in 4-5 months(electrician broke my ECU and I was stuck on this for 1,5 month...)
Few pics from build
[/B]That's what is left from clio wire loom inside car(apart from full wire loom on engine).
It works, drove it for the first time 3 days ago, already did 100km eliminated most of rattles and bouncing exhaust pipes, only one rattle left at about 6,5krpm but I'll fight it in few days
I went through a lot of specs of this engine and gearbox of 4x4. Numbers say it should be ok. Diesel engine on the same box has more torque than f4r so I think it will cope with this.
Cheers.
Need to see the mounting points for the rear suspension setup to see if its anywhere near bolting up or it would be a complete custom fab job same as swapping an S13 backend on it or whatever.
Still got the huge issues with things like the steering rack though, its not going to feel like a clio to drive at the end of it realistically, so you may as well just buy a scooby TBH!
Martin_172
ClioSport Club Member
I posted up about building a F4R kangoo 4x4 a few years back and basically got told to forget it as the drive train is horribly fragile
the diesel doesn't have more torque than the F4R as said above, it was a detuned 1.9 dci with only 130lb/ft, 20 less than a standard 172
the diesel doesn't have more torque than the F4R as said above, it was a detuned 1.9 dci with only 130lb/ft, 20 less than a standard 172
Yes its on this site and mentioned already in this thread so weve all seen it.
It was 1,6K4M 4x4, it's done 500miles already and so far so good. I expected a little bit more(exhaust behing cat is too restricted but I need money so...) but if the driving gear will survive a year with this engine I'll buy F4r from megane with turbo.
It's really fun on wet.
Few things are mixed up. Right mounting is from kangoo.
Flywheel is from clio with "spacer" ring from some diesel flywheel to fit my kangoo clutch clamp(dunno if it's right name).
Starter motor has bigger holes for adjusting it to flywheel in different gearbox.
Exhaust manifold was cut into pieces and rewelded(dimensions are the same as original) because original colided with power supply for back wheels.
Had to cut hole in floor on passengers side for end of manifold to fit
Few other things I don't remember now, I guess.
Ahh yes. I've almost forgot... my girlfriend dumped me...:argue:
It's really fun on wet.
Few things are mixed up. Right mounting is from kangoo.
Flywheel is from clio with "spacer" ring from some diesel flywheel to fit my kangoo clutch clamp(dunno if it's right name).
Starter motor has bigger holes for adjusting it to flywheel in different gearbox.
Exhaust manifold was cut into pieces and rewelded(dimensions are the same as original) because original colided with power supply for back wheels.
Had to cut hole in floor on passengers side for end of manifold to fit
Few other things I don't remember now, I guess.
Ahh yes. I've almost forgot... my girlfriend dumped me...:argue:
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Massive dig on the topic.
Last year I rebought the car after selling it 8-9 years ago. It has done 80k miles after swap.
No major issues as I know where it was all the time.
Need to take care of the body tho because it has seen better days. THinking about swapping drivetrain to long body 1st kangoo.
Last year I rebought the car after selling it 8-9 years ago. It has done 80k miles after swap.
No major issues as I know where it was all the time.
Need to take care of the body tho because it has seen better days. THinking about swapping drivetrain to long body 1st kangoo.
