182cup & 172 racecar
Lol, who are you ?
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grand on coilies
- Thread starter Italian_Job
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182cup & 172 racecar
Win.
172cup
thanks for all the info, comments and tips posted guys
I've pretty much made my mind up on AST sportline 1 with track springs
I was gonna get the sachs rebuilt but I decided to put em on sale after getting the quote form BG, £657+delivery+vat in case the pistons need replacing, just slightly cheaper than buying them from new, to add on top of this £200 for rear adjustable Konis.
Having said that, I'd rather spend that sort of money on good coilovers, go for 15" wheels and enjoy cheap tyres.
I enquired a few shops and waiting to know what's the best price I can get the AST, if too expensive I still got decent options to fall back on like Spax or Bilstein.
thanks!
I've pretty much made my mind up on AST sportline 1 with track springs
I was gonna get the sachs rebuilt but I decided to put em on sale after getting the quote form BG, £657+delivery+vat in case the pistons need replacing, just slightly cheaper than buying them from new, to add on top of this £200 for rear adjustable Konis.
Having said that, I'd rather spend that sort of money on good coilovers, go for 15" wheels and enjoy cheap tyres.
I enquired a few shops and waiting to know what's the best price I can get the AST, if too expensive I still got decent options to fall back on like Spax or Bilstein.
thanks!
Oh my god YOU'RE RIGHT
And in 12 years of driving I've only ever owned the Clio so I would have absolutely no other point of reference at all!!!!
Evo 5 RS
So just going back to point of reference at which point in your 12 years did you realise that damping adjustment was essential when removing a small portion of weight from a sub 1k kg car? I'm just curious if you even know how your bilsteins work? Before I quote Bilstein lol
What part of driver preference don't you understand anyway!!!
What part of driver preference don't you understand anyway!!!
I think it would be the point where my 106 was down to 860kg and I had gone from spax to normal bilsteins but then had to buy group n bilsteins because I wanted stiffer suspension for track use - and was kicking myself that I'd got rid of my old spax setup because on that I could have just turned 4 nobs and had a play with stiff suspension without being another £600 out of pocket
The group N made a massive difference on track but the extra money was such a waste just because I couldn't adjust the setup I had
I just really can't understand your argument about driver preference I'm sorry.
You can always buy adjustables and then leave them at a standard setting and never touch them - but the day when you do wan't to adjust them there's no extra money involved. I'm sorry but I'm out because as far as I'm concerned £800 on fixed shocks vs £800 on adjustable shocks is such a brain dead argument it's unreal. Why would anyone want less flexibility for the same money?
I give up
The group N made a massive difference on track but the extra money was such a waste just because I couldn't adjust the setup I had
I just really can't understand your argument about driver preference I'm sorry.
You can always buy adjustables and then leave them at a standard setting and never touch them - but the day when you do wan't to adjust them there's no extra money involved. I'm sorry but I'm out because as far as I'm concerned £800 on fixed shocks vs £800 on adjustable shocks is such a brain dead argument it's unreal. Why would anyone want less flexibility for the same money?
I give up
Evo 5 RS
i know, doesnt make sense does it?
So Phil, if you knew before the clio and when you had your 106 that adjustable coilovers are the only way to go, how come you ended up buying Billies? LOLZ
Oh and btw, you assuming that the Sachs setup that Dave has is 'understeery' shows how much of an idiot you really are. Maybe I'd suggest going out in either Daves or Sam@BTM's trophies with their Sachs fitted 'if' they let you, understeer is the complete opposite and the setup is equally as quick around a circuit as solid coilovers setup having driven both types myself. Their suspension hasn't been altered that much from standard.
Oh and btw, you assuming that the Sachs setup that Dave has is 'understeery' shows how much of an idiot you really are. Maybe I'd suggest going out in either Daves or Sam@BTM's trophies with their Sachs fitted 'if' they let you, understeer is the complete opposite and the setup is equally as quick around a circuit as solid coilovers setup having driven both types myself. Their suspension hasn't been altered that much from standard.
Sir_Dave
ClioSport Trader
Yeah, i would agree with that, understeer really isnt something i have to worry about lol ... Sideways through paddock hill bend FTW 
Saab 93 Aero Wagon
Phil I can't understand how you don't get the concept of driver preference.
For example, why should Dave change from the OE Trophy suspension to a set of Spacks/BallSteins just because they provide adjustment?
If you speak to these very capable track drivers in these cars with OE suspension still on them (Dave, Sam) they'll tell you that they can still run circles around cars fitted with aftermarket suspension an have an absolute hoot doing it.
Yes the car may not be absolutely hooked up terms providing limpet like grip, and it may not be the absolute quickest way to lap, but who cares?
For example, why should Dave change from the OE Trophy suspension to a set of Spacks/BallSteins just because they provide adjustment?
If you speak to these very capable track drivers in these cars with OE suspension still on them (Dave, Sam) they'll tell you that they can still run circles around cars fitted with aftermarket suspension an have an absolute hoot doing it.
Yes the car may not be absolutely hooked up terms providing limpet like grip, and it may not be the absolute quickest way to lap, but who cares?
I was running an average of 1 min 27 secs around Combe in my old Ph1 (Before the itb's) on Eagle F1's, standard shockers, and Eibach Prolines.
A mate has a lovely 172 on AST's - about £1300 quid when he bought them iifc.
He was about 1 second faster a lap than me - a worlds difference in a race situation, nothing on a track day.
He was quicker, but having a tougher drive, and dare I say it, probably not having as much fun as me.
Just thought id put my 10 pence in, as it's very easy to go for the best, and turn the car from an adjustable fun car, int a very stiff faster one, but a lot tougher for the average drive to keep on the track
x
A mate has a lovely 172 on AST's - about £1300 quid when he bought them iifc.
He was about 1 second faster a lap than me - a worlds difference in a race situation, nothing on a track day.
He was quicker, but having a tougher drive, and dare I say it, probably not having as much fun as me.
Just thought id put my 10 pence in, as it's very easy to go for the best, and turn the car from an adjustable fun car, int a very stiff faster one, but a lot tougher for the average drive to keep on the track
x
182cup & 172 racecar
I have done 58 around Brands in my road car, bog standard. 56-57's in the race car. Doesn't sound much difference, but in a race that's the difference from say, 6th on the grid to 16th.
Spend what you like, but I wouldn't bother at all, just make sure everything is fresh or new and well looked after.
182cup & 172 racecar
Thats what I've been trying to say, it's not really worth it, plus most people don't know what the fk they are doing when they mess with them anyway.
Sach's is out of the £1k price budget for this thread
The adjustable suspension with the build quality I wanted were out of my price range - hence the bilsteins
In hind sight I should have saved for 2 more months and gone adjustable
The spax weren't available when I bought the billies or I'd of bought spax
Any more questions?
He shouldn't - and I never said he should
The OP asked WHAT SUSPENSION FOR TRACK USE UNDER £1k
Sachs are out of the price range - billies arent adjustable - other sub £1k suffer from rust or poor build qualit - so I said spax
Jesus f**king christ - it's not rocket surgery is it?
172cup
As much as I'd love to save me money I don't think its fun to track with stock dampers :/
Probably I'm a terrible driver but I hate the soft chassis response when you re giving it the stick
Having said that, my car s far from being a cup racer so maybe you guys are right and I shouldn't spend so much on it and just enjoy my car, but I'd like to have that extra amount of stiffness that get you confident to chuck it into a corner, again, I'm a shitty driver but I can't achieve that running bod standard, that's why I miss the sachs.
I do consider a kick-ass suspension set up as the first important mod for a car , I'd definitely sort the handling side first above all others, or maybe I should spend that grand on my feet
Probably I'm a terrible driver but I hate the soft chassis response when you re giving it the stick
Having said that, my car s far from being a cup racer so maybe you guys are right and I shouldn't spend so much on it and just enjoy my car, but I'd like to have that extra amount of stiffness that get you confident to chuck it into a corner, again, I'm a shitty driver but I can't achieve that running bod standard, that's why I miss the sachs.
I do consider a kick-ass suspension set up as the first important mod for a car , I'd definitely sort the handling side first above all others, or maybe I should spend that grand on my feet
182cup & 172 racecar
Spend a couple of hundred on tuition and forget body roll.
Thing is the Sachs may be just out of budget if you buy everything new, if your smart you can definately do it for under a £1000...
Tired Sachs - £200 plus £550 rebuild = £750
Or...
Good condition 'pinned' Sachs £500 tops.
Then accompany with...
New Koni's - £200
New Sportlines - £150
New Whiteline ARB - £150
So there's your £1000 budget, the only other thing I'd get is some camber bolts which are pittance anyways. If you keep a look out for some bargains so can save yourself some money for trackdays! Great, fun setup for track that is perfectly comfortable for normal day to say driving, I really can't see anything better for a Clio tbh.
I've been there with various coilovers AST/FK Konigsports, great on track no doubt bit definately wore thin on me when using them on the road.
Nick
Tired Sachs - £200 plus £550 rebuild = £750
Or...
Good condition 'pinned' Sachs £500 tops.
Then accompany with...
New Koni's - £200
New Sportlines - £150
New Whiteline ARB - £150
So there's your £1000 budget, the only other thing I'd get is some camber bolts which are pittance anyways. If you keep a look out for some bargains so can save yourself some money for trackdays! Great, fun setup for track that is perfectly comfortable for normal day to say driving, I really can't see anything better for a Clio tbh.
I've been there with various coilovers AST/FK Konigsports, great on track no doubt bit definately wore thin on me when using them on the road.
Nick
Aside from what I've just said, this is the most sensible option.
Having had a serious amount of help from Tony over the last couple of years with regards to tuition it has definately made me realise how much fun trackdays are when you actually know what/where you're doing/going. I actually find body roll pretty fun now as I was like you before wanting solid suspension, if you load the car up correctly and are smooth through corners which comes with practice/tuition it actually doesn't feel as bad in my opinion.
Anyways it's your call chap, think I've officially said my piece so good luck with whatever route you choose.
Nick
172cup
I have sportlines, after my experience with 2nd hand sachs I'd rather go for new ones and get them unpinned, that would set me back £900 + £200 for the konis, could still do it or try to find some 2nd hand konis
Can't echo these guys enough mate.
Seriously, if you think that you're a crap driver (Which I bet you're probably not crap, you just think you're worse than you are) then the first upgrade you need to do is You. Wait until your driving ability has reached the level where you feel the car is the weak point.
Quoting what you said in the top post - "but I'd like to have that extra amount of stiffness that get you confident to chuck it into a corner" - what you are actually doing is increasing your entry speed, into corners without fully knowing what the car is doing under you - this will mean the accident you may have is 15% faster and happens 20% quicker than it would have done on the standard setup.
If you take your time, build up your confidence and experience, feel to learn what the car is doing under you, you will learn body roll doesn't nesseserally(sp) mean you will be going slower, you just adjust your driving stlye to get the best out of the car as it is.
With experience behind the wheel it's amazing how quickly these little cars can be driven - a few years ago in my Ph1 (Which was with a standard engine, Eibach Proline springs and Mintex brake pads) I attended a sprint/air field day - I came 3rd out of 42 cars - a lot where track day cars, big bhp 4wd machines - I didn't get to 3rd place because Im the next Lewis Hamilton - I had a lot of experience driving the car, and simply knew what it was doing underneath me
Once you reach a point where the car is the weak link,then you can look at upgrading
All IMO of course mate
172cup
I will Tony.
any specific place you would recommend?
thanks mate, the comments have been very helpful indeed.
I'm going to Bedford coming Friday, first objective is to take more tuitions and see how it goes
182cup & 172 racecar
Perfect, you will get tuition at Bedford on Friday, try it, you will be surprised. I'd love to come over, but I'll be busy doing last bits to the race car ready for Brands.
172cup
Can't echo these guys enough mate.
Seriously, if you think that you're a crap driver (Which I bet you're probably not crap, you just think you're worse than you are) then the first upgrade you need to do is You. Wait until your driving ability has reached the level where you feel the car is the weak point.
Quoting what you said in the top post - "but I'd like to have that extra amount of stiffness that get you confident to chuck it into a corner" - what you are actually doing is increasing your entry speed, into corners without fully knowing what the car is doing under you - this will mean the accident you may have is 15% faster and happens 20% quicker than it would have done on the standard setup.
If you take your time, build up your confidence and experience, feel to learn what the car is doing under you, you will learn body roll doesn't nesseserally(sp) mean you will be going slower, you just adjust your driving stlye to get the best out of the car as it is.
With experience behind the wheel it's amazing how quickly these little cars can be driven - a few years ago in my Ph1 (Which was with a standard engine, Eibach Proline springs and Mintex brake pads) I attended a sprint/air field day - I came 3rd out of 42 cars - a lot where track day cars, big bhp 4wd machines - I didn't get to 3rd place because Im the next Lewis Hamilton - I had a lot of experience driving the car, and simply knew what it was doing underneath me
Once you reach a point where the car is the weak link,then you can look at upgrading
All IMO of course mate
couldn't agree more, I'll be able to make the right choice after learning how to control the stock setup.
I booked 1 lesson but they'll provide extra tuition on the day, looking forward to it.
Next time! I'd love to meet and get private instruction at the track
Evo 5 RS
besides the advice given above which is completely honest for someone in the ops position. I'm just going to relay the blinding obvious in one sentence if you don't mind.
You get what you pay for.
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Yes - there seems to be 7 pages of people saying that - I feel like I've been smashing my face into a wall for a week
Sir_Dave
ClioSport Trader
But as has been said, you get what you pay for.
Spax (adjustable) = £800
GAZ (adjustable) = £800
KW V1 (fixed) = £825
Bilstein (fixed) = £700
H&R (fixed) = £900
KW V2 (adjustable) = £1125
AST (adjustable) = £1500
Bilstein (adjustable) = £2000
Nitron/Moton/Intrax (adjustable) = £2.5k to £5k+ (not available for clio)
The point i am trying to make is that yes, the Spax are 'adjustable', but at the same priced as the 'fixed' premium brands.
Now, i have no idea on the quality of the Spax product, & i am sure that it is lovely, but there is surely a reason why it is cheaper.
I've got the spax full coilover setup, and cannot complain one bit. I soften them for the road and make them harder for track.
Anyone who has been in my car in the road/track has never moaned about the quality of the ride.
If I was to buy coilovers again my money would go on spax again.
Anyone who has been in my car in the road/track has never moaned about the quality of the ride.
If I was to buy coilovers again my money would go on spax again.
Sir_Dave
ClioSport Trader
Just out of interest, obviously you are pleased with the Spax, & would happily purchase again, but have you tried anything else at that price point?
Good point Dave, I haven't. My car came with raceland coilovers so the difference is miles apart.
I have been in other cars running the higher bracket gear, but you dont get a real feel for something unless you try/use it for a longer period.
I have been in other cars running the higher bracket gear, but you dont get a real feel for something unless you try/use it for a longer period.
172cup
I'd obviously go for adjustable suspensions at the same cost, but what Dave said here makes sense to me
so much that Id spend that money on front sachs or save up for AST
I'm sure Spax s a wicked setup, I know its just ridiculous but its the price that put me a bit off for a start
Jamie86
ClioSport Club Member
RS175,595,205gti,172
Ok I do get what you're saying on price but from what I read before I posted that hasn't been previously mentioned. Although can't say I'd have a problem fitting Spax a few race series even have them as the suspension you have to run do they not?
Just to clarify though I intend to modify my 172 to fit Sachs as I want to be able to tell people I have remote reservoir dampers to impress them ;-)
Just to clarify though I intend to modify my 172 to fit Sachs as I want to be able to tell people I have remote reservoir dampers to impress them ;-)
Im unsure if he's selling them, but Rhys Beal on here recently removed some sachs from his car.
172cup
