Got caster yo

[Chip-mk1]

Chip, cheeky I know. But if I was to send you a seof 182 wishbones, you dont fancy doing what you did to a set of yours? Pushing them right to the edge of the arm?

Nick

Your best bet is to oval the hole a bit and try it, then do it again and try it etc to find the optimum point, then just just the bit you dont need welded up once you have worked out where is optimum for your car, if I just did the same thing you'd probably find it rubs like hell and needs changing anyway.

And TBH its a really trivial thing to do, you dont need someone like me doing it, any grease monkey mechanic with a welder should be able to plug the hole for you and then you can drill the hole in the position you have found that is optimum for your car.

I can do it if you get really stuck though, but honestly, there are better fabricators out there than me, I am "ok" with a welder, nothing more.

 

[Nick172Cup]

Okay Chip, tbh I was planning on going mad like yours were as well as running AST topmounts. No problem with rubbing, i'll happily cut away in the bracketry/bumper/anything else to make it work as it'll be going on a track/racecar.

 

[Chip-mk1]

On mine I swapped to cap head bolts to allow me to go even further into the corner.

TBH I see no real value in bothering to welding up the old holes on a race car, I just did it to be neat really, so if I were you I would just drill some new holes as far in the corner as you can get them, and then leave it at that, it wont go anywhere once bolted up anyway, and you can always plug the old hole at a later date.

 

[Chip-mk1]

Ie, like this picture:

No actually need to do anything other than that, the old hole wont cause any harm at all.

 

[Nick172Cup]

Okay thats cool, I think I can drill a hole so will give it a go!

Cheers again Chip.

 

[Chip-mk1]

Get the caphead bolt first so you can work out how far you can mount it, then drill the outer hole, then file the inner hole to allow it to be the right distance from the new hole.

 

[itsjamz]

Bringing up an old thread. I need new ball joints, new bushes etc so was just going to order the already convert out bottom arms all ready to go but now I need to find out if they use cup bottom arms? Don't want to loose out on the cup caster as its on a cup. Isnthatbthe only geo difference on the cup? The added caster?

 

[Chip-mk1]

I believe from the figures ive seen published there are some slight camber differences too, but TBH these cars vary by so much I wouldnt take it as gospel.
I believe the extra camber is from the inner mounting holes for the wisbones being further out on the subframe but again thats not from personal experience measuring.

One thing I can say though, is that I would never put non cup arms onto a cup!

 

[Tony Hunter]

Clunk!!

 

[itsjamz]

Where can I find cup arm part numbers? I can only find normal ones

 

[Tony Hunter]

8200257956
8200257957

 

[itsjamz]

Those are standard bottom arms according to pure, no extra caster

 

[Tony Hunter]

Those were the numbers I was given for the cup wishbones.

 

[itsjamz]

Cool I'll try them out at local renault dealer

 

[Oldskoolbaby]

Anybody tried using a clio v6 ball joint. I know they are different to the 1*2 part as they push the hub much further forward. I'm not 100% sure if they are longer though. I don't think they are from memory. If they are ok, it will be a bolt on bolt off mod. Just an idea.

 

[Chip-mk1]

Don't suppose you have a picture of one?

 

[Oldskoolbaby]

I'll try and get one. I'm on my phone though.

 

[Chip-mk1]

Ok mate. Thanks. No rush at all. Even a pic while on the car would be useful.

 

[dmallett]

I'm going to do this one day to mine, wish bones hard to get off?

 

[Tony Hunter]

Hit them with your mallett.

 

[Chip-mk1]

I'm going to do this one day to mine, wish bones hard to get off?

The inner bolts if they have properly seized can be a total nightmare as access around them is so poor, but that doesnt happen often so 95% of the time its just trivial to get it all apart. If in doubt soak them overnight with penetrating fluid first.

 

[sam JFM]

Bump.

I have just finished modding my bones this way and somehow have managed to end up with different gaps each side.

Can anyone see problems elongating the front hole so that they are the same and leaving the hole elongated without welding up the space left?

 

[Dan@SJM]

Yes, they will allow ball joints to move then.

 

[Chip-mk1]

Bump.

I have just finished modding my bones this way and somehow have managed to end up with different gaps each side.

Can anyone see problems elongating the front hole so that they are the same and leaving the hole elongated without welding up the space left?

As dan says there is a possibility the ball joints will move, not ideal TBH, but if you are only talking a mm or two then even if it does move then its only going to alter your geo back to where it is now and put your tracking out a tiny bit, which although inconvenient isnt likely to cause an accident like it might if it moved 15mm all of a sudden for example.

I had a slotted coilover move on me once mid bend, and it spat me straight off the track, so I try and avoid slots in any suspension components now!

 

[SkidMarx]

I did this and it worked a treat so thanks for the tip. I just modded my wishbones to cup spec by welding a washer where I wanted it then grinding the hole out of the wishbone to match, The difference between standard and cup is only a few mm. Only prob is iv'e got serious rubbing issues now at the front arch liner.

 

[bozothenutter]

Anybody ever try moving the arm on the bushes?
IE moving the arm forward on the bush?

 

[NorthloopCup]

Anybody ever try moving the arm on the bushes?
IE moving the arm forward on the bush?

Yes the cup racers did it that way to get the castor increase. You could use a pms wishbone kit and do the same thing if you have different length spacers machined.

 

[sam JFM]

As dan says there is a possibility the ball joints will move, not ideal TBH, but if you are only talking a mm or two then even if it does move then its only going to alter your geo back to where it is now and put your tracking out a tiny bit, which although inconvenient isnt likely to cause an accident like it might if it moved 15mm all of a sudden for example.

I had a slotted coilover move on me once mid bend, and it spat me straight off the track, so I try and avoid slots in any suspension components now!

Pretty much what I thought really, it's only 1- 1.5 mm of room so I will do the bolts up tight and go from there. Rubbing is now my next battle

 

[sam JFM]

Has any one got any pictures of the 172cup/ 182 wishbones fitted with balljoints to give me an idea of the standard locations?

I'm going to modify mine again to reduce castor slightly but also rubbing

 

[NorthloopCup]

Has any one got any pictures of the 172cup/ 182 wishbones fitted with balljoints to give me an idea of the standard locations?

I'm going to modify mine again to reduce castor slightly but also rubbing

​Pm me your email address and I can send you some through.

 

[karol_SVK]

Hello, i am planning to fit new dampers and meanwhile refreshing suspension mounts on my 172 ph2.

I have this thread about replacing standard 172 wishbone with 172 CUP.
What else do i need? Track rods are ok as the whole wheel moves a bit front? Arent they too short?

I had cup Turinis refurbished, 195/45 R16, no spacers. Would like to keep all the arch liners without rubbing. I think it could be ok without rubbing, as on CUPs its the same, isn't it?
Are there any disadvantages? Some more early wearing components due to this change? I am not really a racer, but if it can handle better, why not

thanks.

 

[Chip-mk1]

With regards to if your wheels will rub the front archliners on cup wishbones, it depends how low you are.

As far as track rods go, it actually ends up slightly shorter distance between the steering arm outer location point and the inner when you tilt the bottom balljoint forward, as its inner hole is in the same place so moving the outer hole forward doglegs it very slightly and hence shortens it by a tiny amount (fraction of a mm)

Your steering rack will wear slightly quick, but not more than a cup one does anyway.

What year is your car?
It would appear all (or nearly all, typical renault!) the 2003 onwards Ph2 have the "cup" wishbones anyway, they arent just limited to cup models.

 

[Martin_172]

I was "cup" wishbones and eibach sportlines and had bother with rubbing until I realised I hadn't fitted the bumpstops to the new dampers! doh!! once they were fitted there was no rubbing at all

 

[Chip-mk1]

If you are regularly relying on the bump stops to provide steering arm movement control, then you have something wrong with your choice of springs and shocks, they should only ever come into play if hitting a massive pothole etc.

 

[Dan@SJM]

They use them as standard mate. It's known as a secondary damper iirc.

 

[Chip-mk1]

They use them as standard mate. It's known as a secondary damper iirc.

Thats just renaults way of wording the fact they got the spring rate wrong, lol.

 

[karol_SVK]

my car is 2001 model, so i might have the old ones, if the previous owner did not change them, what is very unlikely. I would notice i think when beeing under the car.

Suspension will be koni sport (stiffness adjustable), it should be not much lower then standard.

Steering rack is a good question....what condition can it be on a 12y old car. I think i take the CUP ones from a trader here as localy dealer price is 92 euro for one side.

 

[krappy]

With regards to if your wheels will rub the front archliners on cup wishbones, it depends how low you are.

I run 205/45/16s on Konis/Sportlines with the later 'cup' wishbones and I get rubbing on the arch liner where it bulges over the bumper bracket. No real problem but I do find it annoying at times...

 

[karol_SVK]

I will first mount the suspension to the car, try it how it handles and then decide.
After some driving, i can spend pennies to refresh what will look worn.

Getting grown up at 30 .

 

[Martin_172]

If you are regularly relying on the bump stops to provide steering arm movement control, then you have something wrong with your choice of springs and shocks, they should only ever come into play if hitting a massive pothole etc.

always during cornering doesn't even have to be fast cornering. that was brand new cup dampers and brand new eibach springs, however ive had the same issue on a standard spring and damper car although not brand new parts