Dingers CSCC Tin Top Build

[dinger]

You can fit the fuse box back in place but its tight, the big black relay box needs to be moved though, I have it placed inside the glove box cable tied down, the glove box on my car is screwed shut anyway so I wont be keeping my lip stick in there,

When I fitted the cage I wanted it to stiffen the body as much as possible without being welded in, I jacked the cage up as high as i could get it, putting pressure on the roof skin and fitting tighter between the b piullars, then made my mounting plates to suit, This is why the back stays are not on the floor.

If I said its tight, it would be an understatement and needed a porta power to get the cage back in once the foot plates were welded.

Hope that helps

 

[shiftspark]

Cheers for the info, when will yours be ready ?

 

[dinger]

Hopefully by the end of the month, Most bits are done now and just waiting for my diff to arrive then its engine in and away I go,

MOre updates tommorrow after I remember to take some pics.

 

[Tony Hunter]

Ready for Silverstone then. Good lad.

 

[dinger]

Stop it Tony!

Rome wasnt built in a day

 

[dinger]

Ok, Bit of an update as Tony thought I should pull my finger out, Lol,

Mate came round today to help with some two man jobs, had a very productive day tidying some wiring, finishing off the rear brake lines, measured for flexi's and just finished off some bits that were doing my brain in,

Some pics below

I'm at a point now where I can not do anything else till the diff turns up! I hate waiting

 

[Tony Hunter]

Good. See, I told you Silverstone is on.

But that's what I like to see, no messin, just get on and build it. All this fkn about with things does my head in.

 

[dinger]

Still waiting for the Diff

 

[shiftspark]

How long have you been waiting?

 

[dinger]

2 months, Getting a joke now, especially as they said it was on the shelf!

 

[Tony Hunter]

Who??

 

[dinger]

Who??

PM'd

 

[MG cup]

Looking good mate. Your brake lines....Did you run flexi's from the underneath of the floor to the axle/calipers?

 

[dinger]

Yes, 560mm Flexi. If anyone wants to do this you will need 560mm from ened to end of line including fittings, M10 male/male convex fitting into caliper, 90 degree concave swivel onto that, other end is an M10 concave straight fitting with a through bulkhead M10 male/male convex.

This by passes the origonal bias valve underneath and is now controlled by a bias in the engine bay, Rules stipulate that if the bias is in reach of the driver then a minimum of 25% braking force must be applied, with the bias valve on the bulkhead I can run down to 5%

 

[MG cup]

Cheers mate, I might swap over at some point but I have heard a bias valve has little to no need on a Clio, even in the rain. I just want my brake lines away from underneath for piece of mind.

 

[dinger]

Ebay part number

X2 Straight M10 concave swivel 120711486971
X2 90* M10 concave swivel 230560634921
X2 M10 Male/male convex 220721866093
2 metres -3 braoded hose 171003924705

 

[dinger]

Cheers mate, I might swap over at some point but I have heard a bias valve has little to no need on a Clio, even in the rain. I just want my brake lines away from underneath for piece of mind.

If you byass the load adjusting bias underneath the car you will get 50/50 bias, the origonal bias will give you a minimum of 25% to the rear (which is why the CUPS fail MOT's) on track you will need to adjust anything from 0% to 25%
If you are running new lines anyway for the sake of £30 you may aswell add a bias adjuster

 

[shiftspark]

2 months, Getting a joke now, especially as they said it was on the shelf!

Not sure where you are getting it from but I wanted one but they sold the 3 remaining units the day I rang to buy and bought a quaiffe as they said a minimum 8-10 weeks to make some more.

 

[MG cup]

Ebay part number

X2 Straight M10 concave swivel 120711486971
X2 90* M10 concave swivel 230560634921
X2 M10 Male/male convex 220721866093
2 metres -3 braoded hose 171003924705

legend, didn't plan on doing this until later but looks like I will have to now you have the listing numbers.

My daily cup doesn't have any valve so I'm not sure how that works, maybe different sized master cylinder pistons. My race car does have the valve though which is a weird one.

 

[MG cup]

Do you know what size of fitting is needed for the master cylinder too?

My understanding of the adjuster not within reach of driver is when you are strapped in with harnesses so I think I will just have it far enough away that it can't be adjusted when strapped in but in reach when I slacken the shoulder straps so it can be done on the fly. Bending the rules a bit I guess but I will run it past a scrut first.

 

[dinger]

Ok, Some faffing around today just doing some little jobs,

Rear brake flexi line fitted and EPAS fitted and wired, not tested is but fingers crossed

 

[dinger]

ARDS test tommorrow at Snetterton,

Mate is having a trackday so get free lift, Best watch that video and learn the flags!

 

[MG cup]

Good luck with the test mate, its easy. I got myself worked up for nothing, more of a formality than a test.

For ref it has been said on CS that bias valves need fitted out with the cabin and braking effort can be reduced to 5% to a given axle. Ran this buy my scrut for Scottish Saloons, quote from his mail.

"See Blue Book page 271,-- 19.5.b where it says that at least 25% must be available to each axle so theoretically, it is not permissable to have a bias valve that to all intents and purposes can shut off all the brakes to one axle. However, we know that most valves can shut off the brakes completely to one axle. Positioning the bias system outwith the divers reach when normally seated with belts on and tightened is to stop drivers changing settings when driving and perhaps inadvertently ending up with dangerously unbalanced brakes. Scrutineers are allowed to seal the adjustment before races take place to stop this happening"

 

[dinger]

Exactly,

Hence my fitting it in the engine bay, Some testing can be done getting the setting right before the race then just leave as is,

When I was building my stockhatch car the bias valves had to be box sectioned in if it was in the cabin, So even with the belt loosened you could not change it.

A handy tip,,,,,,,, never ask a scrutineer a question, LOL,,,, bit like asking a copper when a good time would be to speed

Its my third ARDS rest mate, having let the last licence lapse 3 years I need to re take it.

 

[MG cup]

Ah I see, seasoned pro then.

Not directly linked to my car you see though I expressed an interest in the championship and at the end of the day its their interpretation of the rules so its nice to know it can be locked within the cabin, nothing stopping you fiddling on track days to find a good wet and dry balance quickly on the fly.

 

[Tony Hunter]

Just don't put a big sticker saying, "BRAKE BALANCE" next to the knob.

On my rally car, I put screws in the dash to stop it being turned too far either way, ie, the max front braking I would need, then the same with max rear needed.
​
Made for quick adjustment without making a mistake.

 

[MG cup]

Sorry for spamming Dinger.

Question, Is there a need for a bias valve on a Clio given that a minimum of 25% effort has to go to the rear and anything more than that would see the car going into corners backwards. I think Renault got it right and hence the VOSA bulletin for low rear brake effort on the cups. Obviously the car was dangerous with anything more going to the rear and that's why VOSA allowed this?!??

It would save me £90 in a proportioning valve by plumbing in the oem valve.

 

[dinger]

The risk is, with 25% to the rear under heavy braking and cold rear tyres will see you going backwards very quickly, Most race cars run with very little rear braking, rear brakes are just not needed and the little that goes to the back is just to balance it,
I have fitted one as I'd like to have that adjustment if needed, It is only in the rear line so will only knock off the back brakes, it wont change the the 75% that the front gets, Although with the cup version you have 4 outlets from the master cylinder so you will have to go from 2 into 1, through the bias valve then splitt back into two after the valve, Block valves a readily available from Ebay or JJC for under £35.

At the end of the day it is personal prefference, Keep spamming mate:rasp:

 

[Tony Hunter]

Morgan, we took our bias valve out in the end. Put a cup rear valve in with a little nut and bolt, so it's adjusted, but not adjustable.

Just leave it like that, on Jay's old track car, the rear brakes were disconnected completely lol.

Getting rear tyres warm on the green flag lap is a must, weaving ain't for show.

 

[dinger]

You still running the non cup master cylinder Tony?

 

[Tony Hunter]

As far as I know, yes mate.

 

[MG cup]

The risk is, with 25% to the rear under heavy braking and cold rear tyres will see you going backwards very quickly, Most race cars run with very little rear braking, rear brakes are just not needed and the little that goes to the back is just to balance it,
I have fitted one as I'd like to have that adjustment if needed, It is only in the rear line so will only knock off the back brakes, it wont change the the 75% that the front gets, Although with the cup version you have 4 outlets from the master cylinder so you will have to go from 2 into 1, through the bias valve then splitt back into two after the valve, Block valves a readily available from Ebay or JJC for under £35.

At the end of the day it is personal prefference, Keep spamming mate:rasp:

I would just run two lines from master cylinder through cabin and then to cup valve I think, I just want the brake lines away from any kerbs or any turf I may hack up.

Morgan, we took our bias valve out in the end. Put a cup rear valve in with a little nut and bolt, so it's adjusted, but not adjustable.

Just leave it like that, on Jay's old track car, the rear brakes were disconnected completely lol.

Getting rear tyres warm on the green flag lap is a must, weaving ain't for show.

Yeah I'm leaning towards that tbh Tony, re tyre heat the bias valve would help generate rear tyre heat with full rear effort on the warm up lap. It still boggles me how my road cup has no valve of any kind, I need to investigate the master cylinder more. I have yet to see a car without some kind of compensator except this one.

 

[shiftspark]

What's the normal split with abs? I assume it only reduces as it tries to prevent it locking up?

 

[dinger]

Take the fuse out and find out, Lol

 

[Tony Hunter]

Take the fuse out and find out, Lol

Done it. Don't do it.

 

[MG cup]

What's the normal split with abs? I assume it only reduces as it tries to prevent it locking up?

Iirc yours is adjusted via the load valve so its alters depending on ride height or payload.

 

[shiftspark]

Done it. Don't do it.

No chance I am trying it with the fuse out lol

 

[Tony Hunter]

No chance I am trying it with the fuse out lol

​Find a big open space and try it, it's fun.

 

[Jay Payne]

You still running the non cup master cylinder Tony?

It has cup master cylinder (4 port) and cup load valve with abs servo ( cup one gives different assistance)

 

[Jay Payne]

Surprised you didnt post the evidence

​Find a big open space and try it, it's fun.