Definitive answer to 172 vs. 172 Cup /182 castor difference?

[5678]

they fit megane 1 & scenic 1

I got them from this picture...

Unless the 0's are 8's?

 

[mark123]

They don't look like cup ones. On the cup ones the outer hole for the ball joint is nearer the front of the wish bone.

 

[Chip-mk1]

Those are definately not cup ones.

 

[5678]

Thanks Mark and Chip.

I'm going to try to find time to call a couple of other dealers today. Hopefully, Dan@519 can share the part number with us if he has sourced some recently.

 

[Chip-mk1]

I can get the number off Mike at MWM if you really struggle Dave, I bought my mrs ones through him so he obviously knows which ones to order.

 

[5678]

Thanks Chip.

I've got some used ones on their way to me. But until I decide on powerflex vs new OEM, I don't know if I'll use them or just order some new ones up from Renault.

I'll keep that offer in the bag Do you know how much they were? Seems it's about £60 per side?

 

[shiftspark]

If someone has the part number it would be better to have it here where others can find it !

 

[Chip-mk1]

Thanks Chip.

I've got some used ones on their way to me. But until I decide on powerflex vs new OEM, I don't know if I'll use them or just order some new ones up from Renault.

I'll keep that offer in the bag Do you know how much they were? Seems it's about £60 per side?

I dont remember the exact cost now TBH mate but think it was vaguely in that 60-70 ballpark, I bought them in with a load of other parts as well though.

Personally I prefer new standad to the powerflex for a road/trackday car, im not a big fan of them as they wear out a lot quicker than the standard ones.

 

[5678]

If someone has the part number it would be better to have it here where others can find it !

Exactly, that's what I'm trying to get to. All part numbers and descriptions in one thread.

 

[Dan519]

right, just checked, Parts system is working fine for me. 172 cup, and cup packed 182 use one part number, ph1 and ph2 172 use one part number. Havn't got a non cup 182 reg number to hand to check with

 

[5678]

right, just checked, Parts system is working fine for me. 172 cup, and cup packed 182 use one part number, ph1 and ph2 172 use one part number. Havn't got a non cup 182 reg number to hand to check with

Thanks for clarifying Dan.

Any chance you can write up the part numbers too?

 

[mikekean]

I got them from this picture...

Unless the 0's are 8's?

These look like the ones the cup racer wishbones are made from with the outer ball joint hole in the middle, they have an offset bush welded in on the cup racers to give more castor but the cup wishbones i fitted actually give slightly more overall castor anyway. So IMO buying cup racer ones is pointless, ill be using cup wishbones with pure motorsport rose joint inserts fitted from now on.

 

[len_beach]

I wonder if I'm running one of each. My alignment showed something like 2.14 degrees of castor on one side and about 1.44 on the other.

Either that or it's bent!

 

[KevF182]

Had mine up on the ramps recently and when replacing a balljoint I paid particular attention to this

my 182 WITH CUP PACKS wishbones have the outer hole clearly off-set toward the front (unlike the pics above which look "normal"). So, 182 cup pack is just like the 172 cup ones, as shown in the pics very early on in this thread. Hope that helps.

 

[Dan519]

Had mine up on the ramps recently and when replacing a balljoint I paid particular attention to this

my 182 WITH CUP PACKS wishbones have the outer hole clearly off-set toward the front (unlike the pics above which look "normal"). So, 182 cup pack is just like the 172 cup ones, as shown in the pics very early on in this thread. Hope that helps.

as I already said

 

[5678]

I wonder if I'm running one of each. My alignment showed something like 2.14 degrees of castor on one side and about 1.44 on the other.

Either that or it's bent!

I'd say there is a very good chance you are!

Well, looks like Dan isn't going to share the part numbers. If I manage to find them then ill post them up for completeness.

 

[Chip-mk1]

I wonder if I'm running one of each. My alignment showed something like 2.14 degrees of castor on one side and about 1.44 on the other.

Either that or it's bent!

No way is that on one of each type of arm IMHO, its just not enough difference, the cup arms make a significant difference not only half a degree.

 

[sinnie92]

*moderately justified excavation*

If only there was a new sticky summarising all factual info in this thread. It's so contradictory...

 

[Dan519]

*moderately justified excavation*

If only there was a new sticky summarising all factual info in this thread. It's so contradictory...

it's guess work, trying to know whats on each car so there's no definitive list. The only way to tell is look

 

[sinnie92]

Good point, I'm searching my ass off to ensure I get the right ones. And its making me not want to live on this planet anymore...

 

[Chip-mk1]

*moderately justified excavation*

If only there was a new sticky summarising all factual info in this thread. It's so contradictory...

Ive posted a thread since.

​Summary:
All late cars are meant to have the extra caster, all early ones are meant not to.
Loads have been changed by now though and no doubt there was some overlap in the cars getting registered too.
Changover point was around 03.

 

[sinnie92]

Top man

 

[Dan519]

Good point, I'm searching my ass off to ensure I get the right ones. And its making me not want to live on this planet anymore...

just change the pair (you should anyway) and fit 172 cup ones. It's easy to get a 172 cup reg number if you find one for sale.

I had 3 182s in a week on 54/05 plates and all ran the less camber version, so the above summary is wrong.

 

[sinnie92]

And I bet those arms are the ones they left the factory with? Excluding the possibility of wrong ones being fitted on all 3.

Did you replace them with the extra castor 172 arms?

 

[497adam]

whats the part no. of the cup ones? what effect does the extra castor have? more feel?

 

[MG cup]

whats the part no. of the cup ones? what effect does the extra castor have? more feel?

Search 'go caster yo Clio' on google, you'll get the idea.

 

[sinnie92]

All well and good on turinis, but on 182 alloys I'm not sure. I had a look on mine and arch clearance at the closest point is 20mm. Would this be an issue if I get the 172 arms?

 

[MG cup]

16" wheels are 16" wheels, if your getting rubbing with your wheels you will get rubbing with Turini's.

The arms were fitted to later 1*2's anyway so the answer is yes, says above if you have those two things that are either side of your nose.

 

[sinnie92]

As Dan pointed out , he has seen multiple 182s with the regular arms, indicating that quite possibly they were fitted as standard. And assuming I have these standard arms at present, will replacing them with 172 cup arms be problematic considering the available arch space when running 16's.

 

[Adamm.]

If your lowered on 16's with the extra castor I think it could possibly rub on full lock mate. Don't count me on that mind I just think it would be very tight squeeze.

I think I'm one of the 182's dan is talking of and I don't think I'll bother with cup arms unless one needs replacing at some point anyway.

 

[Renault Wolverhampton]

182s all ran 8200257956/8200257957 lower arms more castor no matter cup or non cupped pack.
the change point is on ph2 172 made before or after 13.09.2002.earlier cars ran 6000073511/6000073512 arms less castor

 

[MG cup]

As Dan pointed out , he has seen multiple 182s with the regular arms, indicating that quite possibly they were fitted as standard. And assuming I have these standard arms at present, will replacing them with 172 cup arms be problematic considering the available arch space when running 16's.

You have answered your own question, 172 cups run 16" wheels the same as yours so absolutely no difference.

 

[sinnie92]

touché

 

[Loko]

Has anyone got a photo of Cup wishbone?
What about drive shafts, they can stay non cup or you have to go for longer cup one's when you switch to Cup wishbones?

 

[Chip-mk1]

As Dan pointed out , he has seen multiple 182s with the regular arms, indicating that quite possibly they were fitted as standard. And assuming I have these standard arms at present, will replacing them with 172 cup arms be problematic considering the available arch space when running 16's.

Spec of all 182 was meant to be with the extra caster when new, if any don't have it now then its been changed since or was a mistake during production.
lots of crashed cars get given the wrong arms.

 

[Chip-mk1]

Has anyone got a photo of Cup wishbone?
What about drive shafts, they can stay non cup or you have to go for longer cup one's when you switch to Cup wishbones?

On phone at moment but will dig some out when online properly.

Wishbones are fine when you swap arms, I've done the swap on several ph1 and early ph2 and none have wishbone issues.

 

[Martin_172]

heres a pic of mine, you will see the outer ball joint hole sits off centre away from the ARB side of the bottom arm

 

[Chip-mk1]

Yep thats the ones that should be fitted to all the later cars.

Looks like a thorough refresh that you have going on there mate, should drive like new after that lot

 

[MG cup]

Martin, are you sure those strut top nuts are correct in the centre of the picture? Both mine just have little 17mm slimline nuts to hold the spring on!!!

 

[Martin_172]

Yep thats the ones that should be fitted to all the later cars.

Looks like a thorough refresh that you have going on there mate, should drive like new after that lot

Yeah its driving brilliant now except both driveshafts are shot and it has a bent hub as was running 2 degree neg camber on the o/s so its running a camber bolt temporary to sort that and i need to make a tool to fit the inner track rods as i ran out of time!

Swede, im using the standard slimline one i couldnt work out what they big nuts were for lol