Air in the abs pump?

[Usr117063]

After a couple of bleeds on my new brembo setup for my 182, the pedal is still soft most of the time, will stiffen up after loads of pumps but will go back to soft. No air was leaving the callipers when I did the last bleed. After reading some threads and speaking to George who supplied me some of the parts, I take it its air in the abs pump and a proper abs bleed will be needed using clip or some tool like that. I read another thread where someone said they just kept bleeding for ages and occasional air would come out and it seemed to solve it. How come air would get into the pump anyway? I made sure the mc was topped up and didnt get to low so Im not sure where I went wrong, first time I did this btw, rebuilt the callipers and fitted everything, Im a rookie but made sure I did it all by the book.

By the chance that someone around east sussex area has a clip and is able to help me out or know someone that can would be appreciated. Would be money your way.

Tia

 

[Jekyll]

I've literally just had this issue, by changing all my calipers. (For standard ones, not bigger.)

You need someone with clip to pulse the and module. I had the same issues as you but a friend with clip helped it become good again. Well 99% as I still have a faint soft pedal, but one final bleed will hopefully cure that. I had no pedal before clip, even after a good few bleeds.

 

[Jekyll]

@Gus

 

[Gus]

After fitting brembo calipers the pedal travel will be a little longer than with the standard calipers. However what you describe doesnt sound normal.
What I would do to start with is get down to halfords and buy an Easibleed kit. Easibleed will pressure bleed your system and requires a wheel with 20 psi so make sure you have a way of measuring the PSI and inflating a tyre.

Whilst at halfords buy the cheap 5L brake fluid (i forget what DOT it is) as you will go through a lot of fluid. obviously once you are happy you can use decent fluid.

Pressure bleed all the calipers and when doing the front brembos start with putting tubes on both nipples and open both nipples at the same time.

Just keep bleeding, dont reuse any brake fluid you bleed out. You will go through a lot of fluid.

I dont think your ABS will have air in it. But if after a LOT of bleeding its still soft then your other option is to use CLIP or RSTUNER with ABS module OR take the car to some grass and brake heavily on grass to activate ABS and then bleed.

 

[Usr117063]

@Gus
Im going to give this ago mate thanks! I have 1 and a bit litres of Ate, will that be enough once its fully bled with teh cheap stuff?

 

[RichValver]

I had air in my abs pump and it wouldn't bleed at all. Was recommended to bleed them whilst the engine was running. Worked perfectly for me

rich

 

[JB21]

5L of Pagid dot 4 or 5.1 fluid using their discount code (<£20). On the way back get the abs to fire on gravel or grass 4-5 times and re-bleed. Rise and repeat until you have a firm pedal. Done this twice now when changing ABS pumps and MC's.

 

[Usr117063]

I picked up the bleed kit and got 5l of fluid just now but im not sure whats going on with the weather, if its dry tomorrow day then ill do it but will see. Thanks for the advice ill report back once its done

 

[Akay]

I had spongy brakes after fitting a new rear line across the axle, even after multiple bleeds. Bled with the engine running and its sorted the issue, thanks to @GrahamS for the tip.

Take note though, the eezibleed fills the resevoir to brimming and if you dont drain some out (syringe or similar), it will displace when you put the cap back on (due to the sensor) and spill out onto the hot manifold, take care.

 

[Usr117063]

I had spongy brakes after fitting a new rear line across the axle, even after multiple bleeds. Bled with the engine running and its sorted the issue, thanks to @GrahamS for the tip.

Take note though, the eezibleed fills the resevoir to brimming and if you dont drain some out (syringe or similar), it will displace when you put the cap back on (due to the sensor) and spill out onto the hot manifold, take care.

\

Thanks. Im going to bleed with the engine running today, I had fully bled the car yesterday with it off and no air came through at all, so hoping this will sort it

Haha yeah I had that happen yesterday, the problem is I cant really leave the car with all my tools out to go inside and look for stuff if no one else is in. I ended up using some brake bleed tube, dunked it in the mc and put my finger over the end for about 5 minutes :|

 

[bloke]

have you put 4 pot callipers on?

 

[Usr117063]

have you put 4 pot callipers on?

Yes mate

 

[bloke]

you will get some dead pedal travel at first then, unless you let the reservoir run dry when you are changing lines etc then you won't have air in the system. you normally find first press of the pedal and you've got loads of travel but brakes bite fine, give it one quick pump and then brake and you've got a pretty much normal pedal and normal brakes.

give it two pumps and then hold the pedal for a good ten seconds and see if you have any pedal creep, doubt you will.

 

[Usr117063]

@bloke

Thanks for letting me know. Yeah thats why I was confused as I definitely didnt let it go dry, I was expecting pedal stiffness as it was with the stock calipers. I have given it a few pumps and it will go stiffer but will go back to soft shortly after. Its better now that I gave it a full bled with the pressure kit but not what I was expecting

If thats how they are working at 100% then Ill have to get used to it, but I really dont like having a null zone when I start to brake. Before was perfect with travel and stiffness but I was greedy and wanted more power haha, although from a basic test when they do bite, they dont muck about

 

[Usr117063]

Right so just got back from having a test after pressure bleeding while the engine was running. They are firmer no doubt and work better now, but as bloke said, they will have some pedal travel at first which Ive never read before, after all the research I did before hand I seemed to have missed that out. They bite well when you actually reach the initial biting point, but now I have to find that point after pressing the pedal and it kinda jumps at you. Was only easy driving and have not properly bed the pads in yet so dont know if they will be different when they are, but if this is how they feel/work then Im gonna just have to get used to

 

[Jekyll]

When I've fitted 4 pots (wilwoods and hispecs) I had more travel on the braking. The latter brakes, I changed the master cylinder for a bigger 197/200 as they have 4 pots as standard and that removed some of the pedal travel.

 

[Usr117063]

@Dr Jekyll

How were those calipers performance? I was almost thinking about buying some ap racing ones from ebay, they were for a ford escort but they were for 300mm ish discs and looked like they just needed a custom bracket, similar size to brembos etc..

Im going to look into the mc as on ebay they can be cheap, if I can get 15% less travel Ill be happy. Thanks for the info!

 

[Jekyll]

Stick with the brembos and see how you get on with the MC. Its cheaper than new brakes.

I also had DS2500 pads in both and was happy with them once it was sorted. The pedal travel in the ph1/Hi-Spec setup was filling with 100% confidence until we fitted the bigger MC. It was much better after that.

 

[Usr117063]

This seems quite promising. I was scrolling through and found this one.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Clio-Rena...pe:200&hash=item361ce4669c:g:VJUAAOSwVZNTmHlx

Just need to make sure I feel confident on swapping them over my self, first time doing any brake stuff and I rebuilt the calipers and fitted them and alls working well so far, just worried that theres gonna be a lot more air that can get in opening up all the lines doing this.

 

[Usr117063]

Bought that one. Will report back once fitted!

 

[Usr117063]

It never came, was 'dispatched' last friday on the estimated day that it should of been delivered. Messaged them today and they just gave a full refund and didnt say anything back. If anyone could let me know of anyone breaking a 197 would be appreciated!

 

[Usr117063]

Well I just bed the pads in and they are unreal, they are too powerful for the suspension, the car was nearly doing an endo a couple of times. Very good feel, 100% worth the money

Though their seemed to be a bias to the right side and was pulling that way a bit, that will need to be looked at. I swear that this right pulling happened before with stock and ds2500, so it could be more than the caliper. Dont know though so if anyone has an idea if something other than the caliper could cause that?

 

[Jekyll]

Glad that your happy with the performance now.