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Rob's Supercharged Trophy



RMDavis

ClioSport Club Member
The kit looks great in red and black, glad you've got it fitted now. I look forward to seeing you on the ring road :tonguewink:

Cheers Tim! I keep seeing your Megane parked up in town, as I work just down the road from where your parked! Glad to see the yellow beast back ion the road!

Yeah agreed.. will let the girls organise

Also let me know any track days you go on - i'm doing Snetterton on Saturday 27/02/16 and the Ring on 08/04/2016 so far but always up for others, maybe something a little more local like Brands or Thruxton..

Yeah it's easier! :wink:

I will for sure bud. Nothing booked yet, but Thruxton is on the cards in a couple of months time if your up for it? I will keep you posted.
 

RMDavis

ClioSport Club Member
Excellent stuff Rob!

It looked great when I last see it/you. Engine bay looks sweet now!

Thanks bud! It's still not finished. There's a few bits and pieces to fit and tidy up. The engine bay and the car as a whole needs a bloody good clean too!

Looks amazing! Who fitted/mapped it?

Cheers mate. Me and @KrisRS182 fitted it over the weekend. As for mapping I'm enlisting the services of @Dan@SJM next week! [emoji1]
 

RMDavis

ClioSport Club Member
Amazing! I should man up and make use of the brackets and intercooler I have sitting!

When's the time lapse going up will be cool to see?
Get to it mate! Don't let them gather dust! [emoji6]

We're going to wait until the car is mapped, because there's few other things we want to add, but the raw footage looks really good.

Once it's all edited and finally put together I think it will be pretty smart, and be something a little different.
 

Tim.

ClioSport Club Member
I think you need to organise a meet in Blazingsmoke or at Longbridge Mill so we can admire yours and Kris' hard work. Maybe when it's been mapped?
 

RMDavis

ClioSport Club Member
I think you need to organise a meet in Blazingsmoke or at Longbridge Mill so we can admire yours and Kris' hard work. Maybe when it's been mapped?

That's a good idea mate, we are well overdue a catch up! That meeting in Reading was months ago! @TimR26 Shall we arrange another meet after the rolling road day?
 

RMDavis

ClioSport Club Member
Excite!
Did the conversion cost you much in total?
Look forward to seeing time lapse. Sounds great!
Supercharged ftw

No mate not really. Well compared to buying the kit brand new anyway! Believe it or not, but I purchased the kit secondhand (its done no more than 3000 miles) from a chap also called Rob who had it fitted to his Trophy! All for £2500.

I have spent a bit more on other bits and pieces to complete the install, and obviously the mapping is yet to be paid, but either way its been a great saving over buying the kit brand new and paying someone to fit it.
 

RMDavis

ClioSport Club Member
Just read through this, looks great...and even better now it's got the supercharger!! Massively jealous

How did the mapping go? I'd be interested to see what sort of power it's pushing!

I was holding off updating everyone as things are still in progress, but here goes! :smile:

I took the Trophy to @Dan@SJM on the 28th of January for its 'mapping session' and we ran into our first problem. Ktec had put password protection on the GEN90 ECU, bare in mind that this kit is secondhand and was originally fitted and mapped by Ktec.

Anyway after much blagging by myself, I managed to get the password from them and Dan could continue. The initial power run made 202 bhp at 6k which is where we ran into our second problem! :weary: No matter what Dan tried every time the car hit 6k on the roller's it drops all power (almost as if that's my new rev limit) Dan promptly rang Ktec and spoke to Sean who informed him that sometimes its something they do as a safety feature. Which Dan and I thought was odd considering the supercharger already has a restrictor fitted... Dan continued to attempt to fix their problem, and IMO poor mapping and sent various data files to them to see if they themselves could work out what they had done. In the meantime Dan adjusted what he could and insured the fueling etc was okay, and the car currently sits at 214 bhp at 6k.

After many emails and with time now against us in terms of available time on the rollers Ktec just turned around and blamed my engine for the issue, and that's that! Now if it is indeed a problem with my engine then I haven't a problem. I will get it fixed, but I certainly never had this blatant power drop prior to fitting the supercharger or ECU. At the moment all I can say is that Ktec's reputation regarding mapping seems to be fairly accurate!

Onward and upwards! So the plan now is... Tomorrow I'm meeting up with @Cub. at his abode in Reading, along with @Dan@SJM so Dan can copy Oli's map to transfer onto my ECU to see whether that cures my power drop. He is also bringing a spare GEN90 to rule out a possible hardware problem, and if that doesn't fix it, then it will be further investigation into whether my engine is to blame. Best case scenario is that it's just a mapping issue, and once that's cured Dan can map it properly and to its full potential!

I've gone into this with my eyes wide open, and so far this is my only hiccup which in reality is fairly trival. The car is running well (If a little rough around the edges) and its safe which is the main thing. A massive thanks to @Dan@SJM for all his help and advice, and the same can be said for @Cub. for sparing his time and car! His flamer has always been my biggest inspiration to go down this route, and now ironically its directly helping my project!

Clio sport love! :wink:
 

RMDavis

ClioSport Club Member
Bit pissy from Ktec tbh mate.

However, love how CS'ers help other CS'ers out. This place and the members can be great at times :smile:

@Cub. really is a top bloke, and I can't thank him enough!

With the help of @Dan@SJM and Oli's map I now have my rev's back! :wink: So my Trophy is now running the Flamer's map, and already drives much better!

So it wasn't my engine after all... Just another crappy K-tec mappy! 😂

Booked in with Dan for next Friday for my second mapping session, so fingers crossed all goes well! :smile:
 

K-Tec Racing

ClioSport Trader
  172LBT-172HBT-197-R2
I'd like to balance this story if I may.
Dan called me to ask for the password for a locked ECU, I gave it to him once I looked it up without any delay. What I can only assume is the thread owner was also calling the sales team for the same information at the same time, which only confused matters. Serious blagging....No.
Dan was in communication with me directly via email and the phone to try and discover why the car was behaving that way. I asked for logs to be sent over displaying the issue along with the cal.
The first log I received didn't have any relevant information in it as peak RPM on the log did not reach 6k RPM. Dan sent me another which did show that RPM but also throttle closing at 6k RPM, therefore it was impossible to see from the data conclusively what the issue was. At no stage whatsoever did I say it was a safety device in the calibration of some sort. That is pure fantasy. I explained that we can limit boost on the SC kits either with throttle angle or the physical restrictor. That is the truth of the matter. It gets to a point that unless you are there with the car on the dyno, you cannot diagnose an issue over the phone. I also never said that it was a fault with the engine.
I gave Dan advice on where to look to rule out certain areas in the engine bay for feedback to the ECU, in case of a simple connection issue.
I should add there were some very bizarre changes in the calibration sent over from Dan, I guess he'd been trying things to see what effect they made, but again, it was not the cal that was in that ECU at the point of unlock. I compared it against our database to be certain.
The nett result is that this issue was fixed by copying a calibration from a running car to another, not the problem in the calibration actually being found and yet K-Tec are somehow responsible for this? Now that really is some serious blagging!
 

K-Tec Racing

ClioSport Trader
  172LBT-172HBT-197-R2
The Dan was ringing the sales team and I gave it to you, same result. I don't know peoples voices unless I deal with them regularly. No lies are present here.
 
The Dan was ringing the sales team and I gave it to you, same result. I don't know peoples voices unless I deal with them regularly. No lies are present here.
I hadn't actually spoken to anyone at that point.

Secondly, you did also say to me that sometimes Andy limits the throttle lower to limit the boost. I did have you on loudspeaker at this point so @RMDavis also heard everything that was being discussed between you and myself, just so we were transparent with what we knew we were dealing with.

I personally doubted it was an issue with the hardware and installation as I did say to you on the phone. More due to the fact it was 100% closing the throttle (you could see this on live data on the MAP readings suddenly going into negative pressure at the point the revs were restricted). I'd looked through every perceivable option to try and find the route cause of it (this took up most of the time on the dyno, and I do openly admit I'm not overly experienced with the gen90, but I still get the decent figures out of them) the only setting that I'd changed was TPS raw min, which I said to you I had adjusted to an excessively low value to see if it had any impact. Which it didn't, also this was the only 'setting' I had changed, so anything else "very bizarre" will have been prior to me seeing it.

But still, never the less the issue was resolved with a different map. As I did explain to rob that it would be far more beneficial and financially viable to him for this as a trial than me writing a new calibration from scratch just to test and see if it was a calibration issue. Ultimately as Rob will confirm I did do my upmost to resolve the issue with help from yourself as you have requested I do. Sadly I can't cover up issue like that when the customer is there and present watching everything that's going on.
 

K-Tec Racing

ClioSport Trader
  172LBT-172HBT-197-R2
Log_SC.JPG
option_Diff.JPG
option_Ign.JPG

Image 1 - GEMS GDA Data Logging plot of data on Dyno.
Note the following in the highlighted blue areas
Act T Position = Throttle body position
Throttle = Pedal position
MAP as load = Manifold pressure
Images 2-4 File (calibration) comparison function in GenTuner Pro
Current ECU = Original calibration when mapped and locked - Original Reg: WG**GKZ 24/09/2014
Robtrophy1.GEN90 = Cal received from SJM
Here are the facts for you to ponder
Changes made to Options, including turning off the Lambda sensor, changing TPS Min and Max values. Rev limit raised to 7800 RPM (which if the 80mm SC pulley is present assuming it was one of our kits purchased used, will overspeed the charger, hence original limit set at 7200 RPM)

MAP as load indicates engine goes into vacuum at WOT circa 6300RPM, throttle is not closing until operator lifts (Act T Postion and Throttle). XX71 does not have throttle vs. boost limitation.
 

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So nothing bizarre on the changes then? TPS min as explained was set to an excessively low value to eliminate a TPS setting issue. Lambda feedback, are you honestly saying you do the mapping with OXFB enabled? Care to explain how the engine goes into vacuum at 6300rpm yet with the new cal this doesn't happen? All mechanical items that have an impact on this were checked (in particular air filter removed to check it wasn't collapsing.) Rpm limit set to 7800 rpm just to be well beyond the place the engine was being taken to in a completely controlled environment on the rolling road, to rule out any "soft limit" options that might start the limiter having an effect before the actual limit itself, an entirely temporary measure just to rule it out during controlled testing on a dyno and not something the customer would be driving down the road.
 


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