Subframe to chassis link rod... thing...

[Touring_Rob]

Hi all,

Recently purchased a little 182, MOT is at the end of the month so figured I should have a look underneath to see what kind of state it was in.

All mostly looks ok(ish), leaky rear shock, snapped hand brake cable (looks fun to change), and a newly developed clonk from the font end... I seem to have a real knack of buying tight cars which fall apart and fail within weeks of my ownership.

Upon inspection I found a bodged up, cable tied rod which attached the subframe (front of the lower arm) to the chassis/inner wing. It appears that the retaining bolt has sheared so some kind sole has repaired with cable ties. So my questions are as follows:

#1 is this an MOT fail
#2 is this a common issue
#3 can the car survive without?
#4 repair suggestions? Thought about drilling the bolt out a little and welding a new stud in place, using a nut in place of a bolt. I suspect the bolt snapped for a reason and will not be coming out any time soon.

Other side to compare:

 

[flebay]

I suspect the bolt snapped for a reason

Some one would of tried to undo it.
Cant believe you still have the sound deadening on both sides, that normally gets binned on the first cam belt change.

 

[STEVE.M]

Some one would of tried to undo it.
Cant believe you still have the sound deadening on both sides, that normally gets binned on the first cam belt change.

What does that tell you?

Renault describe it as protective coving.

 

[STEVE.M]

Hi all,

Recently purchased a little 182, MOT is at the end of the month so figured I should have a look underneath to see what kind of state it was in.

All mostly looks ok(ish), leaky rear shock, snapped hand brake cable (looks fun to change), and a newly developed clonk from the font end... I seem to have a real knack of buying tight cars which fall apart and fail within weeks of my ownership.

Upon inspection I found a bodged up, cable tied rod which attached the subframe (front of the lower arm) to the chassis/inner wing. It appears that the retaining bolt has sheared so some kind sole has repaired with cable ties. So my questions are as follows:

#1 is this an MOT fail
#2 is this a common issue
#3 can the car survive without?
#4 repair suggestions? Thought about drilling the bolt out a little and welding a new stud in place, using a nut in place of a bolt. I suspect the bolt snapped for a reason and will not be coming out any time soon.

In truth, not many people spend money on a car they intend to sell.
Rear shocks are cheap and as long as the bolts don`t shear, take about 30 minutes to do. Replace as a pair.
Here`s a guide of sorts for handbrake cables.
https://www.cliosport.net/threads/ecp-handbrake-cables-for-182-fitment.804018/
Best get it in for MOT now and give yourself some time to get it sorted.
It will probably reveal what your clonk is too.

In view of fleabay`s comment, what`s the mileage and when were the belts last done?

 

[JamesBryan]

In truth, not many people spend money on a car they intend to sell.
Rear shocks are cheap and as long as the bolts don`t shear, take about 30 minutes to do. Replace as a pair.
Here`s a guide of sorts for handbrake cables.
https://www.cliosport.net/threads/ecp-handbrake-cables-for-182-fitment.804018/
Best get it in for MOT now and give yourself some time to get it sorted.
It will probably reveal what your clonk is too.

In view of fleabay`s comment, what`s the mileage and when were the belts last done?

Haven't the new rules for the MOT changed, so if he gets it done now and it fails it needs sorting straight away.

 

[Touring_Rob]

Some one would of tried to undo it.
Cant believe you still have the sound deadening on both sides, that normally gets binned on the first cam belt change.

Yes that was my reason for it snapping too - badly worded by me.

Think it must still have the sound deadening because the cam belt has never been changed, on 180k now too so they must be pretty tough





(I am joking, car on 70K belts done at 50 )

 

[STEVE.M]

Haven't the new rules for the MOT changed, so if he gets it done now and it fails it needs sorting straight away.

I think he might get away with stay as minor, so a pass.
Unless it too dangerous to drive, you can take it away and fix it.
https://www.gov.uk/government/publi...testers/overview-of-mot-changes-from-may-2018

 

[Touring_Rob]

Hey Steve,

As above, i am worried with the new MOT rules - if anything is deemed as being a dangerous fault I will not be able to drive the car home to fix.

The car is on 73K, belts were done 4 years ago at 56K. From my understanding, the Aux belt is due, the cambelt has a little time left. The dephaser was not changed at the same time however the water pump was.

It is my intention to do cam belt etc (pump, dephaser etc). with engine out after the MOT. The car is generally really nice, fairly low miles and I bought it really really cheap - so don't mind spending £1200 or so on parts making it as reliable and fun as possible. This is my get me to work and summer track day fun car (i hope) although I admit the two don't go together very well.

Rob,

 

[STEVE.M]

Hey Steve,

As above, i am worried with the new MOT rules - if anything is deemed as being a dangerous fault I will not be able to drive the car home to fix.

The car is on 73K, belts were done 4 years ago at 56K. From my understanding, the Aux belt is due, the cambelt has a little time left. The dephaser was not changed at the same time however the water pump was.

It is my intention to do cam belt etc (pump, dephaser etc). with engine out after the MOT. The car is generally really nice, fairly low miles and I bought it really really cheap - so don't mind spending £1200 or so on parts making it as reliable and fun as possible. This is my get me to work and summer track day fun car (i hope) although I admit the two don't go together very well.

Rob,

The Aux belt is good for 5 years or 36k miles..

As it hasn`t killed you yet, I doubt anything will be deemed too dangerous to drive.

Possibly that stays primary purpose is something to clip the arch liner to, assuming you have one.

TBH, I`d rather pay Mick at Diamond £700 to do the belts, pump & dephaser and have the invoice to prove. and save having to buy the timing tools & a lot of swearing.

 

[Touring_Rob]

I already have the timing tools and enjoy swearing aimlessly at cars ?, I did quite a bit of reading about cam belts etc just after purchase and it seems that the advice is almost always - pay for it to be done. However I've read the procedure and it looks like a really sensible system, the biggest issue being access.

Keep an eye out for "I changed my cambelt now all my valves are funny shapes" posts in the near future. ?

 

[Touring_Rob]

Has anyone ever fixed a sheared subframe mounting rod thing? I'm getting the impression that this is not a common issue.

Figuring weld stud and use a nut maybe the way to proceed?

 

[JamesBryan]

Has anyone ever fixed a sheared subframe mounting rod thing? I'm getting the impression that this is not a common issue.

Figuring weld stud and use a nut maybe the way to proceed?

Find a nut with the internal diameter that matches the sheared bolt, hold it over and weld the middle up. The heat will often be enough to loosen it right off.

 

[bloke]

Hey Steve,

As above, i am worried with the new MOT rules - if anything is deemed as being a dangerous fault I will not be able to drive the car home to fix.

you can drive the car away, the test centre are not allowed to keep your car.

 

[STEVE.M]

I already have the timing tools and enjoy swearing aimlessly at cars ?, I did quite a bit of reading about cam belts etc just after purchase and it seems that the advice is almost always - pay for it to be done. However I've read the procedure and it looks like a really sensible system, the biggest issue being access.

Keep an eye out for "I changed my cambelt now all my valves are funny shapes" posts in the near future. ?

You`re braver than I am then.

Some of these "simple" jobs can turn into mare.

See post 21.

https://www.cliosport.net/threads/another-jc5-bites-the-dust.818661/#post-11612764

 

[Touring_Rob]

Find a nut with the internal diameter that matches the sheared bolt, hold it over and weld the middle up. The heat will often be enough to loosen it right off.

Cheers dude, I will give that a shot first! Lose nothing by trying that other than a few more minutes with the grinder if it doesn't work.

 

[Touring_Rob]

you can drive the car away, the test centre are not allowed to keep your car.

Yes agree with this, however if its classed as a dangerous fault, under new rules you are not aloud to drive the car home - they don't have to keep it of course but you would need a tow home minimum - thats as I understand it. A minor or major fault still allows you to drive car home.

 

[Touring_Rob]

You`re braver than I am then.

Some of these "simple" jobs can turn into mare.

See post 21.

https://www.cliosport.net/threads/another-jc5-bites-the-dust.818661/#post-11612764

Haha, just read that post you linked - what a night mare. Not sure that brave and stupid are mutually exclusive, I definitely feel brave and have often been called stupid so if thats any kind of answer the engine should just fall out.... right?

 

[bloke]

Yes agree with this, however if its classed as a dangerous fault, under new rules you are not aloud to drive the car home - they don't have to keep it of course but you would need a tow home minimum - thats as I understand it. A minor or major fault still allows you to drive car home.

the new test is a c**k up, pads with less that 1.5mm on them is a dangerous fail but why can't you drive the car knowing that? plenty of others like that.

 

[Touring_Rob]

the new test is a c**k up, pads with less that 1.5mm on them is a dangerous fail but why can't you drive the car knowing that? plenty of others like that.

Yes agree with that, I still need to have a proper read regarding the whole ordeal however I know its going to bite me at some point.

 

[dumdum]

Yes agree with this, however if its classed as a dangerous fault, under new rules you are not aloud to drive the car home - they don't have to keep it of course but you would need a tow home minimum - thats as I understand it. A minor or major fault still allows you to drive car home.

Even a tow isn’t acceptable unless the front wheels are off the floor aka a spec lift type arrangement, four wheels on the floor needs to be road legal like driving ?

 

[dumdum]

To the original poster, drilling and tapping it once the old part is out would work, heat is your friend for loosening the leftover bit of bolt if you want to try drilling to say 4mm and hammering a spline drive or torx in which I have done before like an easy out type affair...

 

[STEVE.M]

Yes agree with that, I still need to have a proper read regarding the whole ordeal however I know its going to bite me at some point.

I thought you were joking.

https://www.mot-testing.service.gov.uk/documents/manuals/class3457/Introduction.html#section_9

@Touring_Rob

 

[flebay]

What does that tell you?

That it probably hasn't had the belts changed buy someone with common sense.
As you probably know the pulleys usually rub against it.

 

[Touring_Rob]

I thought you were joking.

https://www.mot-testing.service.gov.uk/documents/manuals/class3457/Introduction.html#section_9

@Touring_Rob

No, its quite a pain in the arse + lots of MOT testers won't really know whats happening for a little while either so may lean towards caution etc.

 

[Touring_Rob]

That it probably hasn't had the belts changed buy someone with common sense.
As you probably know the pulleys usually rub against it.

Belts done by Renault - so yes your probably right. Pulleys seem to not be rubbing against it though, for now anyway.

 

[bloke]

The snapped bolt...drill it, start small and by the time you get to about a 6mm bit if you have at it chances are it will pick up on the snapped bolt and spin it out.

 

[Touring_Rob]

Have you ever had any success with the bolt remover tools? Specifically the ones with a tapered reverse thread.

So you drill the bolt first and then use the extractor tool thing to unscrew the stud. Ive never had much success with rusty stud removal without loads of heat and a little bit of the head protruding.

 

[donnylad]

Just drill it and use an easy out / stud extractor.

Personally I would get a reverse/left hand drill set and more then likely as you are drilling it will just come out.

 

[PhillipM]

As someone else said, the fastest way is just to weld a nut to it, the heat will expand it and crack the rust seal at the same time, it'll be a lot faster than a easy out, etc.

 

[Touring_Rob]

Cool, thanks for all the input, I will post results!

 

[bloke]

nothing there to weld a nut to, easyouts are shite. you screw something tapered into a hole drilled in a bolt that's stuck in a nut etc. this expands the bolt, plus when they snap good luck trying to drill one out ?

 

[Touring_Rob]

nothing there to weld a nut to, easyouts are shite. you screw something tapered into a hole drilled in a bolt that's stuck in a nut etc. this expands the bolt, plus when they snap good luck trying to drill one out ?

Yes, that is my fear regarding stud removers, a real dick to drill out when they inevitably snap, I think I can get a blob of MIG onto the end of whats left of the bolt and then weld a nut to the mig blob.... if it doesn't work I can grind off my mess and drill out!

 

[bloke]

just drill it. easiest solutions are always the best.

 

[Touring_Rob]

Option A) Drag MIG out of garage, inevitably not being able to find face mask and give my self sore eyes,
Option B) Pick up a drill

I've got to say that your logic is starting to persuade me I'll see how motivated I feel come the weekend.

 

[PhillipM]

Followed by C - 20 minutes of trying to flat the top off enough to pop the centre to keep the drill straight,

 

[bloke]

Followed by C - 20 minutes of trying to flat the top off enough to pop the centre to keep the drill straight,

or just start with a 10mm drill bit and that will just about centre itself, then use that as your start for a small bit.

 

[STEVE.M]

No, its quite a pain in the arse + lots of MOT testers won't really know whats happening for a little while either so may lean towards caution etc.

It is there in black & white, less than 1.5mm, dangerous fail.
Seems a bit over the top, a simple major fail would have sufficed.

 

[Touring_Rob]

Just to finish this thread off a little - Car passed MOT with the link left as it was above (ie, doing nothing). Either its not a fail or the tester couldn't see from below. I ran out of time a little to fix before the MOT so figured I would chance it. Suspect this will be a job for next weekend.

 

[Chris_Beer]

Mine snapped. Drilling it was painful but had to be done. Just treat yourself to a new set of decent drill bits