Road/Track Car

[minimatt1967]

Evening all,
I'm thinking of purchasing a Clio 182 as a road car, but i would really like it to be capable of performing track day duties. This would be a daily, which involves taking the kiddies to school, so no roll cages.
I took part in a trackday towards the end of last year and I had the use of a PHS1 172, which had Bilstein B14 Coilovers, so it handled superbly, even if the Uniroyal Rainsports were less than ideally suited to the task in hand. The main issue creeping in was the brakes, the discs were rather blue after about 8 laps, so i think that would be my first port of call on the mods front.

So what are your thoughts on the direction to go with the mods?

Cheers
Matt

 

[imprezaworks]

I have b14's and they are ace on the road, have my first trackday on sat so will let you knoe how it goes.

brakes, speak to George @G 172. Tyres, are you staying 16's? The Michelin sport cup3's are supposed to be very good whatever the weather. I have a spare set of 15's with track tyres on and keep my 16's for road

 

[minimatt1967]

I was thinking of sticking to 16's for road use and a cheeky set of 15s tucked up in the garage for track use. Good shout on the Michelin Cup Tyres, I think they would probably be my go to road tyre.

 

[minimatt1967]

Oh, have fun on track too :up:

 

[Mini182]

Standard brake discs or brembo HC discs are more than up to the job of a few track days. Speak to G172 on here for those.

Just get some better pads, braided lines, and replace the brake fluid.

As long as the rest of the car is in good shape you can have plenty of fun in a relatively standard clio at a track day.

 

[imprezaworks]

I was thinking of sticking to 16's for road use and a cheeky set of 15s tucked up in the garage for track use. Good shout on the Michelin Cup Tyres, I think they would probably be my go to road tyre.

If you can, get a spare set of wheels. £200 on a set with decent track tyres and really good conditioned wheels. Keep an eye on ebay

 

[imprezaworks]

If you are interested in doing more days etc, well worth investing becoming a member

 

[minimatt1967]

Standard brake discs or brembo HC discs are more than up to the job of a few track days. Speak to G172 on here for those.

Just get some better pads, braided lines, and replace the brake fluid.

As long as the rest of the car is in good shape you can have plenty of fun in a relatively standard clio at a track day.

Yeah, I wasn't looking to go all out race car, I just wanted to see roughly where the land lies with regards to brakes upgrade and suspension improvements. As far as suspension bushes go, is it worth going poly or are they too hard?

 

[scooby-93]

I'd personally just do a track day in your car how it is before spending much on, brakes tyres and bushes etc see if you enjoy it first and see what you feel needs improved upon, also get some tution will make the biggest difference

 

[-Jamie-]

You can't have both, It is either going to be good on track but compromised for the road or vice versa.

Personally, Unless your going on a full on track build then just keep it simple and bias it more to fast road use and just make sure that brakes/tyres are upto the task of track work

 

[TarkMalbot]

In regards to the roll cage you can have a safety devices cage with removable single door bars and removable rear diagonal and harness bar so can still be used with the back seats. Just an option if you want a compromise.

 

[minimatt1967]

I'd personally just do a track day in your car how it is before spending much on, brakes tyres and bushes etc see if you enjoy it first and see what you feel needs improved upon, also get some tuition will make the biggest difference

Pah! The voice of reason, always tapping on my shoulder trying to be all sensible I jest of course, yeah it will be quite considerable amount of suck it and see. My main concern s for the brakes, as I said earlier, the Clio I drove last year did muller it's brakes quite quickly, especially compared with the MX5 I also had a go in. That pounded the track all day and the brakes were absolutely spot on, no fade, no obvious signs of wear. As for my wish to do suspension, it will most likely be over ten years old, so I am concerned with degradation as much as actual performance and generally I try to upgrade when I replace. Obviously I am A Driving God, but yes I will be looking for some tuition.

You can't have both, It is either going to be good on track but compromised for the road or vice versa.

Personally, Unless your going on a full on track build then just keep it simple and bias it more to fast road use and just make sure that brakes/tyres are upto the task of track work

Yes, this will definitely be a road car which will have occasional track outings.

In regards to the roll cage you can have a safety devices cage with removable single door bars and removable rear diagonal and harness bar so can still be used with the back seats. Just an option if you want a compromise.

Interesting, I will bear that in mind.

 

[imprezaworks]

If it was me starting out etc
Decent tyres,
Decent pads/discs
Oil change
General check over

 

[-Jamie-]

In regards to the roll cage you can have a safety devices cage with removable single door bars and removable rear diagonal and harness bar so can still be used with the back seats. Just an option if you want a compromise.

Unless your going to be using buckets and harness' everyday, Even on the road then i wouldn't bother with a cage, As soon as you stick a cage in something you have made it a track car IMO.

 

[Ph1 Tom]

Until you unbolt the cage, then its a road car. Put it back in, its a track car. Etc.

 

[warwickstingray]

As soon as I started trailing the brakes into corners I stopped bubbling the paint on my poorly refurbished alloys. Check your discs and pads as the difference between a well worn standard disc and half used pads and new standard brakes was night and day.

Standard brakes work fine with road tyres. If you go to track rubber your much more likely to cook them. In a Clio the brakes aren't for slowing down to corner speed where you can just turn they are for getting the arse up in the air so you get the back to steer the nose in.

 

[-Jamie-]

Until you unbolt the cage, then its a road car. Put it back in, its a track car. Etc.

When i talk about cages i mean properly welded in cages, Not ones that you can bolt in and out and remove bars from, I would have very little confidence in them and always cringe when i see people with K-Tecs bolt in "cage"

If your going to the hassle of fitting a good cage and you opt for it being bolt in then your mental IMO. When my Megane gets caged next winter it will be getting a full weld in cage similar to the N4 cages.

 

[M.C..]

When i talk about cages i mean properly welded in cages, Not ones that you can bolt in and out and remove bars from, I would have very little confidence in them and always cringe when i see people with K-Tecs bolt in "cage"

If your going to the hassle of fitting a good cage and you opt for it being bolt in then your mental IMO. When my Megane gets caged next winter it will be getting a full weld in cage similar to the N4 cages.

Weld in cage is always better but they do cost a fortune, what will that cage cost you by the time it is fitted and painted about £2500?
I went for the safety devices bolt in cage but at least you know it is a good cage, designed properly and manufactured to standard for safety not just made in a shed like ebay cages, so I have no issue using it and they also use them in the 750 motor club series

 

[-Jamie-]

Yes they are more expensive but they are worth it, Even the SD cage's bolt in cages would be worth getting welded in, I would want it to be as strong and stiff as i could get it so i would have the utmost faith in it if i ever had to use it.

I won't know exactly how much it will cost as its a custom cage to my specifications. Rough estimates put it around 1.5k though. Not that bad when you consider how much thing is needed for mine LOL

 

[Ph1 Tom]

When i talk about cages i mean properly welded in cages, Not ones that you can bolt in and out and remove bars from, I would have very little confidence in them and always cringe when i see people with K-Tecs bolt in "cage"

If your going to the hassle of fitting a good cage and you opt for it being bolt in then your mental IMO. When my Megane gets caged next winter it will be getting a full weld in cage similar to the N4 cages.

Bolt in cages work perfectly well. If your preference is welded then fine. You still have the same amount of material and the bolts aren't the weakest link.

For most racing a bolt in cage is more than sufficient, then there's times when no type cage will save you!

I'd be more worried about running a HANS device before a cage tbh, I intend to invest in one for me and the wife.

 

[-Jamie-]

I'm glad that you noticed that it was my opinion makes change to being attacked for stated what i prefer LOL!

A good bolt in probably is more than enough but it would still be at the back on my mind.

Hans is something i had considered, More so If/when i decide to go racing but it isn't a cheap thing especially when you add in the Helmet/Seat/Harness' that are all needed

 

[Ph1 Tom]

The welds and joints are weaker than the bolts. If it was for track only and I never had any intention of taking it out or having passengers in the back I'd go weld in, its cheaper!

When you look at the data of neck loading of HANS vs. no protection the results even at 30mph are quite scary.

 

[Tony Hunter]

Just make sure everything is in good working order, if you are cooking the brakes, I'm not going to say you're doing it wrong as the brakes do get a little hot (not much room under there), removal of the fog lights to get some more air in there helps.
Apart from that, leave it as it is, forget all this cage talk and go and enjoy yourself on a weekend, then take the kids to school on Monday.

 

[alistairolsen]

Personally:
Decent road tyres which you like driving on (very personal thing)
A spare set of 15s with some used track tyres on them (theyll stand the heat better and last longer and mean you dont melt your road rubber on a dry day)
Service the brakes, braided hoses, some new fluid (ATE superblue works well for the money) and some Brembo HC disks off the fella on here. When you find youre killing pads, buy a set of decent ones, theyre easy swapped along with the wheels.
Standard suspension will be fine, standard dampers and lowering springs (cooksport get a good rep) better. I wouldnt move to coilovers if its mainly for road use tbh, no real point.
Other than that, geometry set up properly so everything is pointing straight and then use it.

I wouldnt run buckets and harnesses without a cage to protect my (rigidly held) head. They dont work on the road anyway.

 

[NorthloopCup]

Yes they are more expensive but they are worth it, Even the SD cage's bolt in cages would be worth getting welded in, I would want it to be as strong and stiff as i could get it so i would have the utmost faith in it if i ever had to use it.

I won't know exactly how much it will cost as its a custom cage to my specifications. Rough estimates put it around 1.5k though. Not that bad when you consider how much thing is needed for mine LOL

Out of interest why are you wanting a full on climbing frame instead of a 6 point cage?

 

[not normal dan]

Out of interest why are you wanting a full on climbing frame instead of a 6 point cage?

Brings back found childhood memories of this.......

 

[NorthloopCup]

Brings back found childhood memories of this.......

That's a big f**king spider!!

 

[not normal dan]

That's a big f**king spider!!

It's a f**king r****d spider.... What spider you met with 4 legs hahaha

 

[not normal dan]

On a serious note you don't need a massively over spec'd car to go out and have fun, especially if your just starting out or don't have the privilege of a second car.

Get out there and have fun, make sure your car is in good road worthy condition and then as your driving progresses modify the car to suit.

I did my first proper open pit lane day last year in a fairly standard r26 with some ferodo ds1.11 pads

I wasn't the fastest out there but I learnt a lot, highlighted areas for improvement on the car, improved my track driving and confidence and most importantly had fun and went home in one piece

 

[imprezaworks]

In your defence an r26 is bloody awesome to learn in, lol. But completly agree with what you have said mate. Ive been to a number of days and its just a lugh, get to meet new people off here etc. My only suggestion is that you how ever quick you think your car is, you will be overtaken a fair bit. Well unless you a natural racing god in which case fair play

 

[not normal dan]

In your defence an r26 is bloody awesome to learn in, lol. But completly agree with what you have said mate. Ive been to a number of days and its just a lugh, get to meet new people off here etc. My only suggestion is that you how ever quick you think your car is, you will be overtaken a fair bit. Well unless you a natural racing god in which case fair play

Put it this way it got me hooked, already got two days booked so far this year now, one evening at Cadwell and a day at Blyton.

The cars now going through some extensive changes but still it'll be fairly adjustable when it comes to UK roads as it still has to at least get me to work and back

 

[imprezaworks]

Excellent cars would love one and ive never seen a slow one on a track day, just an allround great car imo. Apologies for going off topic op

 

[not normal dan]

Excellent cars would love one and ive never seen a slow one on a track day, just an allround great car imo. Apologies for going off topic op

There are good all rounders, but after speaking to many more experienced track day drivers @NorthloopCup @MrBurns best thing to do is focus on driving and having fun, after all we're not competing even though the odd tussell is fun

 

[imprezaworks]

agreed

 

[NorthloopCup]

There are good all rounders, but after speaking to many more experienced track day drivers @NorthloopCup @MrBurns best thing to do is focus on driving and having fun, after all we're not competing even though the odd tussell is fun

Best thing to do is not get bored whilst on track! Lol!

 

[not normal dan]

Best thing to do is not get bored whilst on track! Lol!

That's one thing I didn't do haha

 

[NorthloopCup]

That's one thing I didn't do haha

I did at oulton after dinner at the Rs day. Lol

 

[minimatt1967]

Just make sure everything is in good working order, if you are cooking the brakes, I'm not going to say you're doing it wrong as the brakes do get a little hot (not much room under there), removal of the fog lights to get some more air in there helps.
Apart from that, leave it as it is, forget all this cage talk and go and enjoy yourself on a weekend, then take the kids to school on Monday.

That's most certainly my intention, you're right some airflow wouldn't go amiss.

Personally:
Decent road tyres which you like driving on (very personal thing)
A spare set of 15s with some used track tyres on them (theyll stand the heat better and last longer and mean you dont melt your road rubber on a dry day)
Service the brakes, braided hoses, some new fluid (ATE superblue works well for the money) and some Brembo HC disks off the fella on here. When you find youre killing pads, buy a set of decent ones, theyre easy swapped along with the wheels.
Standard suspension will be fine, standard dampers and lowering springs (cooksport get a good rep) better. I wouldnt move to coilovers if its mainly for road use tbh, no real point.
Other than that, geometry set up properly so everything is pointing straight and then use it.

I wouldnt run buckets and harnesses without a cage to protect my (rigidly held) head. They dont work on the road anyway.

15's will definitely be on the shopping list when the time comes, as will a good overhaul on the brakes. Tracking is definitely a good shout too. M y main thought towards suspension is more its age than the actual quality. By the time you've bought shocks and decent springs, coilovers seem to be similar money.

On a serious note you don't need a massively over spec'd car to go out and have fun, especially if your just starting out or don't have the privilege of a second car.

Get out there and have fun, make sure your car is in good road worthy condition and then as your driving progresses modify the car to suit.

I did my first proper open pit lane day last year in a fairly standard r26 with some ferodo ds1.11 pads

I wasn't the fastest out there but I learnt a lot, highlighted areas for improvement on the car, improved my track driving and confidence and most importantly had fun and went home in one piece

Fun is the aim of the game, aiming to be the fastest is a direct route to rack and ruin. Besides, in a front drive hatch, you'll never get near the Atom's and Caterfields of this world. Sound advice though mate

 

[warwickstingray]

Decent coilovers are expensive. The only thing expensive on the Clio is the springs and there are suitable aftermarket alternatives.

 

[bozothenutter]

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