PH2 172
So get the soldering iron out & hard wire it?
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Really feint hesitation/miss at light throttle
- Thread starter jinjur
- Start date
So get the soldering iron out & hard wire it?
2003 Clio 172
Right.............so...................took the car for a run and noted the light hesitation at part throttle, lumpy/clumsy return to idle and the "gasp for air / revs drop / interior light dims" when I quickly press the pedal from idle in neutral.
Came home, stripped it apart and had a good look around the loom while the car was running, pulled and trailed at it for a bit but no change in the car running. Pulled the plug and the car died as expected.
Replaced with the new sensor, tried to start with it unplugged and it wouldnt. Plugged it in and away it went. Again, pulled and trailed at the loom while running with no change.
Took it for a run and hesitation still present as well as the clumsy drop down to idle and the "gasp for air / revs drop / interior light dims" when I quickly press the pedal from idle in neutral.
:/
J
Came home, stripped it apart and had a good look around the loom while the car was running, pulled and trailed at it for a bit but no change in the car running. Pulled the plug and the car died as expected.
Replaced with the new sensor, tried to start with it unplugged and it wouldnt. Plugged it in and away it went. Again, pulled and trailed at the loom while running with no change.
Took it for a run and hesitation still present as well as the clumsy drop down to idle and the "gasp for air / revs drop / interior light dims" when I quickly press the pedal from idle in neutral.
:/
J
PH2 172
See what you mean now.
It was the clips on the black sensor that are w**k, resulting in an arc out, which explains the loom I`m dissecting being snipped.
What puzzles me is if the loom black plug is cooked, what does the shiny new blue one to?
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Renault-...oom-megane-scenic-Laguna-Kangoo-/182324012369
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2003 Clio 172
Right gang. Still here. Still misfiring occasionally only now, I would say it is happening more often.
If i popped on the RSTuner and did a live data grab of everything while i went for a little drive and it misbehaves, do you think any of you guys would be able to eyeball it in case anything jumps out at you?
I just did a quick check with RSTuner and I had a historic "Rear O2 sensor" issue but I don't think they were replaced too long ago. Will have to check that mind.
I looked at the output of both O2's while it was running there and you know..............I don't think it looks right.
In the below trace, i rev and hold the engine on very slight throttle (around 2k rpm) and let off and the idle drops down and gets super lumpy. At that point, the front O2 sensor loses its heartbeat like appearance and goes flat while the car lumps and bumps, then all of a sudden in comes back when the idle returns.
Not sure if that is relevant?
I am so close to throwing parts at this but I know it's not the right way to deal with these things
J
If i popped on the RSTuner and did a live data grab of everything while i went for a little drive and it misbehaves, do you think any of you guys would be able to eyeball it in case anything jumps out at you?
I just did a quick check with RSTuner and I had a historic "Rear O2 sensor" issue but I don't think they were replaced too long ago. Will have to check that mind.
I looked at the output of both O2's while it was running there and you know..............I don't think it looks right.
In the below trace, i rev and hold the engine on very slight throttle (around 2k rpm) and let off and the idle drops down and gets super lumpy. At that point, the front O2 sensor loses its heartbeat like appearance and goes flat while the car lumps and bumps, then all of a sudden in comes back when the idle returns.
Not sure if that is relevant?
I am so close to throwing parts at this but I know it's not the right way to deal with these things
J
Attachments
imprezaworks
ClioSport Club Member
Mk5 Golf GTI :)
Front o2 sensor is slow switching, I had it on mine.
Replaced the front sensor and has been fine.
The rear shouldn’t move really.
Try swapping them over
Replaced the front sensor and has been fine.
The rear shouldn’t move really.
Try swapping them over
2003 Clio 172
right..............swapped them last night........................don't understand...................it was REALLY easy.............last time i replaced one it took about an hour :/ I am usually screaming "THAT BLOODY CLIP".....yeah, you know the one.
anyway, i thought there was a difference last night but having it out in real world use today there isn't
still doing the high idle thing when you come to a stop which then tumbles to a near stall or stall. Sometimes it bounces up and catches itself etc Still feel the part throttle hesitation constantly happening through the revs
also stalling lots while starting off because of the initial drop in revs when you press the accelerator
any thoughts on capturing live data while going for a drive when the car is warm with every parameter selected? Can anyone here interpret that?
J
anyway, i thought there was a difference last night but having it out in real world use today there isn't
still doing the high idle thing when you come to a stop which then tumbles to a near stall or stall. Sometimes it bounces up and catches itself etc Still feel the part throttle hesitation constantly happening through the revsalso stalling lots while starting off because of the initial drop in revs when you press the accelerator
any thoughts on capturing live data while going for a drive when the car is warm with every parameter selected? Can anyone here interpret that?
J
JamesBryan
ClioSport Club Member
The post cat o2 sensor doesn't affect the running of the car, only for emissions.
2003 Clio 172
appreciate that bud...............she threw a code today though for rear o2 so I am guessing that it was all over the show as above.
fyi......having a little "exercise" to replace some parts to make a start on the hesitation. The following bits are coming tomorrow
- new coil pack
- new plugs
- new crank sensor AND loom (this time)
- new front O2 sensor (will move current front to rear and see how that does)
I also have the beloved joy of replacing the crank pulley (FML) as it is squealing under load (AC and steering) so that is also getting done. Will obvs be looking at the timing again with this bit.
If that lot doesn't help I will move on to
- plug leads
- injectors
Failing that...............ermmmmm I will buy and replace
- map sensor
And
- check earths
- check loom
Failing that.
- burn car
J
fyi......having a little "exercise" to replace some parts to make a start on the hesitation. The following bits are coming tomorrow
- new coil pack
- new plugs
- new crank sensor AND loom (this time)
- new front O2 sensor (will move current front to rear and see how that does)
I also have the beloved joy of replacing the crank pulley (FML) as it is squealing under load (AC and steering) so that is also getting done. Will obvs be looking at the timing again with this bit.
If that lot doesn't help I will move on to
- plug leads
- injectors
Failing that...............ermmmmm I will buy and replace
- map sensor
And
- check earths
- check loom
Failing that.
- burn car
J
I have this problem. Probably for a year now.
Changed -
plugs
coil
leads
map
injector that was faulty
TB
2 x o2 senors
checked for manifold leaks
numerous other things.
I just live with it. Only really get it in 4th at slight throttle - so i either apply more throttle or go to 5th and is barely noticeable.
Starts and pulls great.
Sadly shes was cat d a few years back, and the cambelt is now coming up to 5 years, but not worth changing
So just plan on keeping as a daily/track to see her days out until something goes bang.
Changed -
plugs
coil
leads
map
injector that was faulty
TB
2 x o2 senors
checked for manifold leaks
numerous other things.
I just live with it. Only really get it in 4th at slight throttle - so i either apply more throttle or go to 5th and is barely noticeable.
Starts and pulls great.
Sadly shes was cat d a few years back, and the cambelt is now coming up to 5 years, but not worth changing
So just plan on keeping as a daily/track to see her days out until something goes bang.
2003 Clio 172
Hey @Bowser ............... WAY TO DEPRESS ME ON A WEDNESDAY!
I hear you bud........although.........there has to 100% be something causing it as it didn't do it out of the factory for sure and there are only a number of electronic components that could be involved. I get that wear and tear of the mechanical side and timing can all play a part but if that is all fine (as mine is) it's electronics all the way i suspect.
Mine has evolved slightly as I noticed yesterday waiting to collect the kids at school. The car was running for a good while as I waited as it was baltic outside............every now and then, the car would drop to almost stall and the car would recover, causing the engine to rev up. In about 10 minutes of sitting idling it did this about 5 times so very intermittent.
Another thing I have noticed is that the car is popping out of the exhaust more. Now, my car NEVER did this...........I am not a *pops-n-bangs* kinda guy but I notice now that if i let 2nd gear run down from high-ish rpm, I will get a fairly hefty *THWAP* of a bang out of the exhaust. Not all of the time, but sometimes. In my more youthful and healthy days, the fact that the car didn't do this annoyed me.............but i quickly grew out of that..............it is just interesting that it is doing it now so I was really hoping o2 and ignition components (excess un-burnt fuel) would be prime candidates right now.
I still have no codes or dash lights either which sucks.
Did you change the MAP sensor and crank sensor in your quest? What about the manifold gasket (the oval one?)
I have a bucket of parts to throw at it here which doesn't include the plug leads, injectors and map sensor. I will be treating that as a plan B approach if plan A does not change anything although I am hoping that plan A does something at least.
Finally (and sorry for the ramble) is there anything I can do to find out if the injectors are playing up? Could they be flowing too much? Sticking open or shut? I don't have spares to test with but would happily throw a set at it if I thought it would 100% sort this. Not flush by any means at the minute but I do need the car to run right.............I know she is an oldish dog (108,000 miles) but it really does owe me nothing, you know?
Cheers
J
I hear you bud........although.........there has to 100% be something causing it as it didn't do it out of the factory for sure and there are only a number of electronic components that could be involved. I get that wear and tear of the mechanical side and timing can all play a part but if that is all fine (as mine is) it's electronics all the way i suspect.
Mine has evolved slightly as I noticed yesterday waiting to collect the kids at school. The car was running for a good while as I waited as it was baltic outside............every now and then, the car would drop to almost stall and the car would recover, causing the engine to rev up. In about 10 minutes of sitting idling it did this about 5 times so very intermittent.
Another thing I have noticed is that the car is popping out of the exhaust more. Now, my car NEVER did this...........I am not a *pops-n-bangs* kinda guy but I notice now that if i let 2nd gear run down from high-ish rpm, I will get a fairly hefty *THWAP* of a bang out of the exhaust. Not all of the time, but sometimes. In my more youthful and healthy days, the fact that the car didn't do this annoyed me.............but i quickly grew out of that..............it is just interesting that it is doing it now so I was really hoping o2 and ignition components (excess un-burnt fuel) would be prime candidates right now.
I still have no codes or dash lights either which sucks.
Did you change the MAP sensor and crank sensor in your quest? What about the manifold gasket (the oval one?)
I have a bucket of parts to throw at it here which doesn't include the plug leads, injectors and map sensor. I will be treating that as a plan B approach if plan A does not change anything although I am hoping that plan A does something at least.
Finally (and sorry for the ramble) is there anything I can do to find out if the injectors are playing up? Could they be flowing too much? Sticking open or shut? I don't have spares to test with but would happily throw a set at it if I thought it would 100% sort this. Not flush by any means at the minute but I do need the car to run right.............I know she is an oldish dog (108,000 miles) but it really does owe me nothing, you know?
Cheers
J
PH2 172
That`s a pretty dumb attitude.
Spend £600 for a full belt/dephaser change and it will probably last another 5 years, and if it`s timed correctly this time, the hesitation will likely be cured too.
That`s £120 a year to put it in perspective.
Mbeau
ClioSport Club Member
Clio 172
Have the injectors been replaced? I have owned and worked on many 172/182 over the years. The main issues I have had around missfire and hesitant running issues have all been around spark plugs, lambda sensors and injectors.
Until the failing injector is really bad it will not cause the EML to light up. If an injector issue the EML will flash. You can test the ohm reading of each individual injector and another way on tick over is to unplug each one individually and see if it affects the running. If you unplug one and it runs the same then that is the offending one!
If only very slight due to flow issues it may not show up though. Brand new injectors can be purchased for £130 from Renparts and if you plan to keep the car well worth the investment.
Until the failing injector is really bad it will not cause the EML to light up. If an injector issue the EML will flash. You can test the ohm reading of each individual injector and another way on tick over is to unplug each one individually and see if it affects the running. If you unplug one and it runs the same then that is the offending one!
If only very slight due to flow issues it may not show up though. Brand new injectors can be purchased for £130 from Renparts and if you plan to keep the car well worth the investment.
2003 Clio 172
Hey @Mbeau appreciate the reply.
The injectors have not been replaced (yet) and I have held off that job due to the fact that it would occasionally completely cut out. It didn't go off a cylinder if you know what I mean, it went off all 4 at once.
Unfortunately, living on this stinky little wet island (NI) i don't know many other owners about.
I am assuming that this MAP sensor is shared with other models, certainly looked that way looking at the replacements so it might even be easier to locate another model (Dacia, Nissan etc) in a scrappies and pulling one from that?
J
The injectors have not been replaced (yet) and I have held off that job due to the fact that it would occasionally completely cut out. It didn't go off a cylinder if you know what I mean, it went off all 4 at once.
Unfortunately, living on this stinky little wet island (NI) i don't know many other owners about.
I am assuming that this MAP sensor is shared with other models, certainly looked that way looking at the replacements so it might even be easier to locate another model (Dacia, Nissan etc) in a scrappies and pulling one from that?
J
Nothing wrong with a used one as they rarely fail.
Also you can check the pressure using a rs tuner should be the same as your local airport 1007 mb were i live with ignition on not running.
2003 Clio 172
Hey @flebay thanks for that.
I think i did quote off a few values a while ago but they were with the motor running and the timing was deffo out.
Will try to pop on the tuner tonight and see what that reads for the MAP reading although the home combi boiler has just dropped its trunks at home and flooded half the house so I need to jump on getting that replaced pronto.
There is always something isn't there
J
I think i did quote off a few values a while ago but they were with the motor running and the timing was deffo out.
Will try to pop on the tuner tonight and see what that reads for the MAP reading although the home combi boiler has just dropped its trunks at home and flooded half the house so I need to jump on getting that replaced pronto.
There is always something isn't there
J
2003 Clio 172
I have also been assuming (correct me if i am wrong) that there is not much else other than the crank sensor, coil failure or bad/no earth that would cause a complete loss of power when under load?
I also have to eyeball that connector under the engine bay relay box and ecu connections to be fair.
I also have to eyeball that connector under the engine bay relay box and ecu connections to be fair.
I had that problem it was a faulty fuel pump relay use to cut out when going over bumps/ accelerating hard.
2003 Clio 172
Interesting.............that bad boy is in the engine bay fuse box? Generic relay?
PH2 172
There could also be corrosion in the white wire from pin 11 of the ECU to relay J
Attachments
PH2 172
Congratulations on getting to post 76 and 12 months of this thread without actually confirming the car we are discussing, unless I missed it.
2003 Clio 172
wtf fella?
When i started the thread, I think that the site still reflected the car i was driving in my profile, i can see that is now no-longer the case
But even from the now grainy avatar, it can bee seen that it is a ph2 172
Are you having a bad Wednesday or something Steve?
I called it a fuel pump relay but Renault call it injection locking J in the diagram.
E G and J have all gone wrong the brown ones have now been replaced with black if you buy from Renault
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