_Tom
ClioSport Club Member
I'm sure it'll be the last thing on his mind tbh..
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I'm sure it'll be the last thing on his mind tbh..
Gearbox is a Getrag 5 speed unit from the 323i (E21) so the 4 speed has been ditched.
Value wise I really don't know, to the average joe not much as E21's are still in the shadow of Mk1 Escorts when it comes to retro RWD cars. That said, anyone from PH, here or the E21 forum are able to see the work that's been put in and therefore they'll know it's very well sorted.
Selling it is the last thing on my mind of course
Value wise I really don't know, to the average joe not much as E21's are still in the shadow of Mk1 Escorts when it comes to retro RWD cars. That said, anyone from PH, here or the E21 forum are able to see the work that's been put in and therefore they'll know it's very well sorted.
Selling it is the last thing on my mind of course
Got some wiring done today.
Some people keep the C101 plug from the E30, but I wasn't too keen on that, I much preferred the setup of having the E30 engine loom wired straight into the E21 fuesbox plug.
So, the existing C101 plug on the E30 engine loom:
E21 fusebox plug:
I followed a guide that listed what needed splicing with what, and got it done. I still need to sort a line out for the tachometer and another for the fuel pump.
I also got an E36 battery distribution box, which collects the power from the battery in the boot and distributes it accordingly to the starter motor, alternator etc.
Made a couple of 'L' brackets up and got the box in the correct place. The battery cable is a really thick gauge, and it required a hole drilling in the boot bulkhead and the loom grommet needed a small slice in it, but it's in now. The box will have the appropriate covers on when it's all done.
Looks OEM enough.
Some people keep the C101 plug from the E30, but I wasn't too keen on that, I much preferred the setup of having the E30 engine loom wired straight into the E21 fuesbox plug.
So, the existing C101 plug on the E30 engine loom:
E21 fusebox plug:
I followed a guide that listed what needed splicing with what, and got it done. I still need to sort a line out for the tachometer and another for the fuel pump.
I also got an E36 battery distribution box, which collects the power from the battery in the boot and distributes it accordingly to the starter motor, alternator etc.
Made a couple of 'L' brackets up and got the box in the correct place. The battery cable is a really thick gauge, and it required a hole drilling in the boot bulkhead and the loom grommet needed a small slice in it, but it's in now. The box will have the appropriate covers on when it's all done.
Looks OEM enough.
More wiring done today.
Battery terminal all connected up:
Tidied up the wires, they'll be wrapped in proper loom tape once I know everything is running.
The spliced loom plugged in too. I fear I've made the new bit too long, as there's a fair bit of wire hanging down when it's plugged in.
Got the fuel pump wired in on a spare fuse in the fuse box, so it's all proper and correct. Need to wire it to the actual pump still though.
Left to do:
Reverse light switch.
Tachometer.
Ignition coil fitted and wired up.
Oil Pressure Switch.
Few plugs left to sort etc.
ECU mounted and plugged in.
Then anything that's left outstanding.
Battery terminal all connected up:
Tidied up the wires, they'll be wrapped in proper loom tape once I know everything is running.
The spliced loom plugged in too. I fear I've made the new bit too long, as there's a fair bit of wire hanging down when it's plugged in.
Got the fuel pump wired in on a spare fuse in the fuse box, so it's all proper and correct. Need to wire it to the actual pump still though.
Left to do:
Reverse light switch.
Tachometer.
Ignition coil fitted and wired up.
Oil Pressure Switch.
Few plugs left to sort etc.
ECU mounted and plugged in.
Then anything that's left outstanding.
Not got any pictorial updates at the moment but progress has been great recently.
Most of the wiring is done, need to do the fuel pump still, got a few questions that need answering but I'm getting there.
Airbox is on, with brackets made. Expansion bottle is fitted, brackets made. Radiator is fitted. Ignition coil is fitted. Wiring loom is in place, and just needs a cut making in the firewall for the ECU to be mounted. Oil pressure switch is wired in. Exhaust downpipes are fitted.
Need to order some bits ready for some work on Friday, hopefully will be turning it over soon.
Most of the wiring is done, need to do the fuel pump still, got a few questions that need answering but I'm getting there.
Airbox is on, with brackets made. Expansion bottle is fitted, brackets made. Radiator is fitted. Ignition coil is fitted. Wiring loom is in place, and just needs a cut making in the firewall for the ECU to be mounted. Oil pressure switch is wired in. Exhaust downpipes are fitted.
Need to order some bits ready for some work on Friday, hopefully will be turning it over soon.
Got a load of work done today, lots of jobs that needed doing.
Radiator mounted:
Coolant bottle mounted:
Airbox mounted, just need some jubilee clips for the rubber boot:
The loom leading to the ECU needs to pass through the firewall somewhere. I've decided to house the ECU in the space under the scuttle panel. It'll be stored in a waterproof case to protect it from moisture. So the I cut a notch in the firewall in front of the heater fans:
Then with the modified scuttle panel fitted:
E30 coil is mounted in the OEM E21 position:
The standard E30 oil lines don't fit on the E21, so I cut them and I will fit rubber oil hoses between the hard ends:
Fitted on the car:
Oil cooler fitted on the car, sat in front of the radiator, I'm hoping the space between the cooler and the radiator will be sufficient to allow for the electric rad fan.
Also got the adapter fitted for the radiator fan temperature switch, put it in the top hose so as to get the correct temperature reading. For some reason the top house mounting point is in such a place that there is no way that it could be done in one single bit of hose, so it has to bend away from the 'stat housing and then back around. As a note, that hideous blue anodized adapter will be painted black. I can't stand for colours like that!
Engine bay is looking very full now. I've got a few bits on order, including the somewhat vital part that is the ignition coil main wire to the distributor. On back order from BMW, so I can only hope that it turns up soon.
I'm "hoping" to start it over Easter weekend, but it all depends if the parts I need arrive in time. Fingers crossed.
Radiator mounted:
Coolant bottle mounted:
Airbox mounted, just need some jubilee clips for the rubber boot:
The loom leading to the ECU needs to pass through the firewall somewhere. I've decided to house the ECU in the space under the scuttle panel. It'll be stored in a waterproof case to protect it from moisture. So the I cut a notch in the firewall in front of the heater fans:
Then with the modified scuttle panel fitted:
E30 coil is mounted in the OEM E21 position:
The standard E30 oil lines don't fit on the E21, so I cut them and I will fit rubber oil hoses between the hard ends:
Fitted on the car:
Oil cooler fitted on the car, sat in front of the radiator, I'm hoping the space between the cooler and the radiator will be sufficient to allow for the electric rad fan.
Also got the adapter fitted for the radiator fan temperature switch, put it in the top hose so as to get the correct temperature reading. For some reason the top house mounting point is in such a place that there is no way that it could be done in one single bit of hose, so it has to bend away from the 'stat housing and then back around. As a note, that hideous blue anodized adapter will be painted black. I can't stand for colours like that!
Engine bay is looking very full now. I've got a few bits on order, including the somewhat vital part that is the ignition coil main wire to the distributor. On back order from BMW, so I can only hope that it turns up soon.
I'm "hoping" to start it over Easter weekend, but it all depends if the parts I need arrive in time. Fingers crossed.
So close now Ed! Can't wait to see it in action. 'mazing!
I was planning to use an eBay one, but preferably one of the better ones. To control it, I'll try and pick up a genuine BMW fan switch, unless there's nothing wrong with the aftermarket ones? (I've heard mixed things about them up to now).
Wiring for the fan and switch seems to be pretty straightforward too so not a lot of work involved there hopefully.
I offered up the valance too, and the oil cooler fits behind it with plenty of spare room should I need to move the cooler forward to allow for a deeper fan.
I'm using a Volvo fan switch, they are the same thread in the radiator. Also, they are just two spade connectors, no messing with plugs etc. I can get you the part number if you need it, they are under a tenner. I went for the lower temp one so it cuts in at 87/88 and out at 82/83, but I also run the lower temp thermostat anyway. You can get normal temp rated ones too.
I then used that to trigger a normal relay, which in turn puts the fan on. Mine was an eBay one, really thin and well made, like you say just don't get the cheapest one you can find or your asking for problems. I think the username I got mine off was toyosport or something similar. Id advise against using the mounting clips they come with, as they just go brittle and break off, nut and bolt is the best way as I'm sure you'll realise when you see it.
I then used that to trigger a normal relay, which in turn puts the fan on. Mine was an eBay one, really thin and well made, like you say just don't get the cheapest one you can find or your asking for problems. I think the username I got mine off was toyosport or something similar. Id advise against using the mounting clips they come with, as they just go brittle and break off, nut and bolt is the best way as I'm sure you'll realise when you see it.
Yeah, have you got that part number please?
The thread in the fan switch housing already looks too small so I imagine I will have to drill that out to a larger thread size, which is no bother.
I'll have a look around and see if I can see any sellers under the name Toyosport or similar, cheers.
The thread in the fan switch housing already looks too small so I imagine I will have to drill that out to a larger thread size, which is no bother.
I'll have a look around and see if I can see any sellers under the name Toyosport or similar, cheers.
Il find it for you later. Might be too big a thread though, as the E36 is in the radiator and quite a large thread size. By the looks of the adaptor it might be M8 or 1/8NPT, did it specify a size when you got it? I have a big list of sensors from various cars so might be able to find one the right size for you.
Lovely, nice one. I've seen the price of a genuine BMW one and I'd much prefer a-n-other that will do the job just as effectively but for a little less than the £30 odd that the E34 ones are. More than anything, I just want to steer clear of the eBay ones, as I can't see them being of any real quality.
I use an INTERMOTOR 50172 (M14 x 1.5 Thread, 87C on 82C off), which any local factors can get in pretty easily. Useful for E36 as the fitting on the rad for the switch is M14, but looks like you'l need much smaller. The only ones they list smaller are below (3/8 BSP and 1/8 NPT).. They are an OEM part manufacturer, and that particular one is from a Volvo 340/360 originally. The other ones in the same brand are:
50460 - 3/8" BSP Taper - 90C-85C
50370 - 3/8" BSP Taper - 95C-90C
50372 - 3/8" BSP Taper - 100C-95C
50010 - 1/8 NPT - 79C-74C
50080 - 1/8 NPT - 88C-83C
50172 - M14 x 1.5 - 87C-82C
50042 - M14 x 1.5 - 90C-85C
50041 - M14 x 1.5 - 95C-90C
50173 - M14 x 1.5 - 100C-95C
50040 - M14 x 1.5 - 103C-98C
If none of the threads are a match/any good for whats already on the adaptor let me know and I'l check another list I have..
50460 - 3/8" BSP Taper - 90C-85C
50370 - 3/8" BSP Taper - 95C-90C
50372 - 3/8" BSP Taper - 100C-95C
50010 - 1/8 NPT - 79C-74C
50080 - 1/8 NPT - 88C-83C
50172 - M14 x 1.5 - 87C-82C
50042 - M14 x 1.5 - 90C-85C
50041 - M14 x 1.5 - 95C-90C
50173 - M14 x 1.5 - 100C-95C
50040 - M14 x 1.5 - 103C-98C
If none of the threads are a match/any good for whats already on the adaptor let me know and I'l check another list I have..
I assume you know that there is a plastic cover that goes over that distribution block which really neatens it up?
Not sure how easy they are to get hold of on their own though.
With regards to the oil cooler, I would just get some braided lines made up, sod trusting an engine to some rubber hose and jubilees if that is what you mean? Or do you mean get rubber properly swaged (sp?) onto those metal pipes?
Not sure how easy they are to get hold of on their own though.
With regards to the oil cooler, I would just get some braided lines made up, sod trusting an engine to some rubber hose and jubilees if that is what you mean? Or do you mean get rubber properly swaged (sp?) onto those metal pipes?
Yeah, plastic distribution block cover is available, and I'll be buying one as the project progresses.
Oil cooler wise, I was tempted to get some lines made up, but this option allows me to keep the costs down just while I make sure the engine is actually running (I'm still yet to hear it running), someone has used the rubber line setup before and seemingly it worked for them, as long as it gets me going, then in time I can sort something a bit better out.
Oil cooler wise, I was tempted to get some lines made up, but this option allows me to keep the costs down just while I make sure the engine is actually running (I'm still yet to hear it running), someone has used the rubber line setup before and seemingly it worked for them, as long as it gets me going, then in time I can sort something a bit better out.
So today was the first attempted start of the M20. Key word being "attempted".
First off, there was no starter motor, turned out I'd missed a ground strap, and the switched live on the SM had come undone, so that was fixed, but the SM tried to crank as soon as I connected the battery, that was because the switched live and permanent live (from the battery) were too close, and were arcing across. Some insulation tape and relocation of the wires sorted that.
With the engine now cranking, it was time to check the fuel pump, which seemed to be okay (apart from me forgetting to fit the fuse that I had wired in!).
So the engine was getting fuel and crank, but at this point we identified that there was no spark. The coil was getting the required 12v, and the resistance between post 1 (-) and 15 (+) was the correct 0.5 OHMs, the king post was the correct 5000 OHMs, and the coil to dizzy lead was the correct 2000 OHMs, so all seemed fine there.
Anyway, I started looking at sensors and the possibility of the ECU not providing spark. CPS at the front of the engine was fine, but I noticed that the gearbox that came with the engine had two sensors in the bell housing. One is a speed sensor (irrelevant to me) and the other is a CPS reference sensor (or so I believe) The gearbox that is on my engine is an E21 gearbox and is required as it has the necessary provision for the mechanical speedo drive. That E21 gearbox does not have a provision for the CPS reference sensor, which means the ECU isn't getting a signal that it thinks it should be, and thus is not providing me with a spark.
So my options are:
- Run the E30 gearbox and use a GPS speedo drive + other mods.
- Keep the E21 gearbox and upgrade my Motronic 1.0 to a Motronic 1.3.
I'll probably be doing the latter because the gearbox swap requires the engine to come back out, and also means bodging the speedo. The Motronic 1.3 swap would be better because the M1.3 doesn't require the CPS reference signal, it uses a single sensor on the crank at the front of the engine. There is a cost issue with the swap though, as I'd need a fair few bits, but it's still probably the best option for me.
I also noticed that my ICV seemed to be on permanently, suggesting it was somehow on a permanent live. I'll see if that is still the case when I swap over to M1.3 and if so, address it then.
So in all, it seems my work/mods are fine, and the car would have started today had I known about the CPS ref sensor, but these things happen I guess.
Off to eBay I go to cost it up...
First off, there was no starter motor, turned out I'd missed a ground strap, and the switched live on the SM had come undone, so that was fixed, but the SM tried to crank as soon as I connected the battery, that was because the switched live and permanent live (from the battery) were too close, and were arcing across. Some insulation tape and relocation of the wires sorted that.
With the engine now cranking, it was time to check the fuel pump, which seemed to be okay (apart from me forgetting to fit the fuse that I had wired in!).
So the engine was getting fuel and crank, but at this point we identified that there was no spark. The coil was getting the required 12v, and the resistance between post 1 (-) and 15 (+) was the correct 0.5 OHMs, the king post was the correct 5000 OHMs, and the coil to dizzy lead was the correct 2000 OHMs, so all seemed fine there.
Anyway, I started looking at sensors and the possibility of the ECU not providing spark. CPS at the front of the engine was fine, but I noticed that the gearbox that came with the engine had two sensors in the bell housing. One is a speed sensor (irrelevant to me) and the other is a CPS reference sensor (or so I believe) The gearbox that is on my engine is an E21 gearbox and is required as it has the necessary provision for the mechanical speedo drive. That E21 gearbox does not have a provision for the CPS reference sensor, which means the ECU isn't getting a signal that it thinks it should be, and thus is not providing me with a spark.
So my options are:
- Run the E30 gearbox and use a GPS speedo drive + other mods.
- Keep the E21 gearbox and upgrade my Motronic 1.0 to a Motronic 1.3.
I'll probably be doing the latter because the gearbox swap requires the engine to come back out, and also means bodging the speedo. The Motronic 1.3 swap would be better because the M1.3 doesn't require the CPS reference signal, it uses a single sensor on the crank at the front of the engine. There is a cost issue with the swap though, as I'd need a fair few bits, but it's still probably the best option for me.
I also noticed that my ICV seemed to be on permanently, suggesting it was somehow on a permanent live. I'll see if that is still the case when I swap over to M1.3 and if so, address it then.
So in all, it seems my work/mods are fine, and the car would have started today had I known about the CPS ref sensor, but these things happen I guess.
Off to eBay I go to cost it up...
welshname
ClioSport Club Member
Good luck! I'll pop round on my way back from EFI if it's not too late and you're still tinkering.
Yeah no problems, just drop me, Jon or Oli a text.
Another attempted start today, but no joy.
Motronic 1.3 swap is complete and I believe to be correct.
We identified that the fuel pump relay is knackered, once the relay is bridged the fuel pump can be clearly heard, so a new relay is needed.
Possibly the same for the ECU relay (or DME as it seems to be called?) but I'm not certain that it's had it.
Ultimately, I'm getting a good cranking, fuel seems okay, I'm just not getting any spark. Coil is getting power, ECU is getting power, I'm pretty sure all the ground straps are okay. I've tried a HT lead straight off the coil, and that's not sparking either, so it's not the dizzy or the HT leads.
Possible culprit might be:
There doesn't seem to be a plug for the ICV? There's a 3 pin block, but it's been wired into the oil level sender (by someone before I owned the loom). Now this seems okay to me, as the FL oil level sender has a 3 pin connector on it, doesn't it?
I'm not sure if no plug in the ICV would cause the engine not to spark, I'd suggest not?
I've tried swapping the CPS and the CID connectors over, no joy. I tried putting the TPS block on the ICV, and that had no joy either.
Long and short of it is that I have no idea, and I'm now putting it out there as a call for help. If anyone who has done this before/is competent with auto electrics is free this weekend/any night in the week or any time in the near future, I'd be massively grateful if they could spend some time with me trying to sort it. My next option is paying for an auto electrician, which I'd really rather not do. That said, I'll be happy to pay someone if they're coming over to try and help, I don't expect anyone to just give up their time for nothing.
Anyway yeah, that's where I'm at for the time being
Motronic 1.3 swap is complete and I believe to be correct.
We identified that the fuel pump relay is knackered, once the relay is bridged the fuel pump can be clearly heard, so a new relay is needed.
Possibly the same for the ECU relay (or DME as it seems to be called?) but I'm not certain that it's had it.
Ultimately, I'm getting a good cranking, fuel seems okay, I'm just not getting any spark. Coil is getting power, ECU is getting power, I'm pretty sure all the ground straps are okay. I've tried a HT lead straight off the coil, and that's not sparking either, so it's not the dizzy or the HT leads.
Possible culprit might be:
There doesn't seem to be a plug for the ICV? There's a 3 pin block, but it's been wired into the oil level sender (by someone before I owned the loom). Now this seems okay to me, as the FL oil level sender has a 3 pin connector on it, doesn't it?
I'm not sure if no plug in the ICV would cause the engine not to spark, I'd suggest not?
I've tried swapping the CPS and the CID connectors over, no joy. I tried putting the TPS block on the ICV, and that had no joy either.
Long and short of it is that I have no idea, and I'm now putting it out there as a call for help. If anyone who has done this before/is competent with auto electrics is free this weekend/any night in the week or any time in the near future, I'd be massively grateful if they could spend some time with me trying to sort it. My next option is paying for an auto electrician, which I'd really rather not do. That said, I'll be happy to pay someone if they're coming over to try and help, I don't expect anyone to just give up their time for nothing.
Anyway yeah, that's where I'm at for the time being
Erm, well, it did have one yes... until it was unintentionally cut off this morning.
It can and will be re-soldered on though
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