OSF Chattering noise issue

[gaz_360]

Hey everyone

Recently started a new job, so not been able to spend quite as much time on the old interwebs and what not.

However with doing a few more miles now, I've recently had quite an annoying noise get slightly worse on my 172. I’m sure it's coming from the OSF area, but can't seem to narrow it down quite enough. The best way I can describe the noise, is if you had a spoon in an empty cup, and stir it around lol, I know that doesn't make much sense, but that is close to the noise it's making. I’ve recently replaced the OS drive shaft, but couldn't think of anything that would cause that sort of noise that I would of disturbed.

The noise can be a bit random in occurrence, as some bumps will make it do it, some won't.

I’ve heard similar noises on other cars, and it's turned out to be brake pad chatter, however I'd like to think I could rule that out, as the pads fit very nicely in the shims, and have plenty of copper slip on them.

Any thoughts would be very much appreciated, as the noise it driving me nuts.

Thanks

Gaz

 

[tobeski]

Mine does this on the NSF and its the top mount bearing. Bloody annoying!

 

[gaz_360]

Mine does this on the NSF and its the top mount bearing. Bloody annoying!

Thanks for the reply, it's definitely coming from the strut area, but i wouldn't of thought there are many components that make up the strut top that would cause this?

 

[tobeski]

You'd be surprised. The design is crap for a start. In my case the spacer/nut that tightens down on the top mount bearing locks out on the strut before its fully bedded down on the top mount bearing, therefore the bearing 'chatters' because of the gap (about 2mm)

Seems like poor tolerance on the manufacturing side by Renault as the other side is fine. Need to use a spacer to resolve it.

Others have had similar issues.

 

[gaz_360]

You'd be surprised. The design is crap for a start. In my case the spacer/nut that tightens down on the top mount bearing locks out on the strut before its fully bedded down on the top mount bearing, therefore the bearing 'chatters' because of the gap (about 2mm)

Seems like poor tolerance on the manufacturing side by Renault as the other side is fine. Need to use a spacer to resolve it.

Others have had similar issues.

Thanks for the reply, I wasn't aware that it was such a common fault, at first I thought it was something pretty serious. Although I'd still like to get is sorted ASAP, as the noise is horrible when going over pot holes and speed bumps etc, even at crawling speeds.

Would you say a genuine strut top replacement would be the way to go, or would this still require slight modification with spacer/washer etc?

 

[tobeski]

Genuine top mounts are the way to go but I still think its a bit hit and miss as to whether they rattle, even with the new spacer design they brought out last year.

I have had more issues with mine since I replaced them compared to the original top mounts. Mine currently sounds like the car is going to fall apart at any moment.

Shitty Renault design.

 

[gaz_360]

Genuine top mounts are the way to go but I still think its a bit hit and miss as to whether they rattle, even with the new spacer design they brought out last year.

I have had more issues with mine since I replaced them compared to the original top mounts. Mine currently sounds like the car is going to fall apart at any moment.

s**tty Renault design.

Doesn't sound good at all, I'm a bit hesitant to go spending on it if it's still gonna be the same in fairness. Do you know whereabouts the spacer goes to modify it slightly? Does it sit between the top mount, and the bit that pokes out into the engine bay?

 

[tobeski]

It goes shock/ spring/ spring cup/ bearing/ additional spacer/ rubber cup/ spacer nut. Then once on the car you put on the top cup and nut.

This is different to the knocking sound people got with the old design where a spacer went somewhere else.

The additional spacer is an M16 with 30mm external diameter and about 2mm thick.

 

[gaz_360]

Hello again chaps. Thought I'd do a bit of an update on this thread instead of making a new one, unfortunately this noise continues to persist.

So far I've replaced the OSF top mount, had the whole kit. This made no difference what so ever. Also tried the 'Washer fix', and also had no luck with this either.

As I didn't want to go cutting the body away like the old Renault fix suggested, I thought as an experiment, I'd cut some spare rubber pipe, and fit it around the top where the turret sits, and see if this changed the noise, or got rid of it completely...

Unfortunately, no change, the noise is still exactly the same, and happens under pretty well all conditions. Can be any speed, and on any steering angle

I thought I'd ask the question, does anyone else have any other ideas what this noise can be, as it's driving me crazy now? I've been round the engine bay, and underneath, but can't see anything obvious.

It's definitely a metal on metal noise, similar to what I described as trying to stir an empty cup/mug lol.

Thanks for any replies

Gaz

 

[darrenclio172]

Has it been making the noise since the drive shaft has been replaced ?

 

[gaz_360]

Has it been making the noise since the drive shaft has been replaced ?

Thanks for your reply Darren.

Sort of, it started a week after it was replaced. I was thinking along similar lines, but there doesn't appear to be much play in it when it's on the floor

 

[darrenclio172]

Did you buy it new ? If so i would be getting it back to the shop you got it from.

It sounds as though the inner joint may be noisy, there is nothing else i can think of that would be making that kind of noise.

Just a few questions:

Does the noise change in tone when you turn on lock?
Does the noise change with wheel speed or is the same regardless ?

 

[gaz_360]

Did you buy it new ? If so i would be getting it back to the shop you got it from.

It sounds as though the inner joint may be noisy, there is nothing else i can think of that would be making that kind of noise.

Just a few questions:

Does the noise change in tone when you turn on lock?
Does the noise change with wheel speed or is the same regardless ?

Yeah the drive shaft is new, although it is a none genuine one. It came with a two year warranty, so may see what they can do.

I've never known a joint to make such a noise, but will certainly look into it a bit more.

As to the speed of it, I can't say there's any change what so ever, it makes the same noise at 5mph, as it does at 60. It's also a little strange that it won't make the noise over every bump / pot hole, and there are certain bits of road on the way to work I can get it to do it on every time, but yet there are some bits of road that are really poor quality, and it makes no noise what so ever. Bit of a strange one lol.

 

[darrenclio172]

That's interesting..... Maybe it's not the driveshaft. I reckon you should start by having a look out for a broken anti roll bar link or spring.

Does it make the noise when stationary at all ?

 

[gaz_360]

That's interesting..... Maybe it's not the driveshaft. I reckon you should start by having a look out for a broken anti roll bar link or spring.

Does it make the noise when stationary at all ?

Tis certainly a strange one lol.

I had it jacked up this morning, and had a good check around the ARB, the bushes look to be perishing slightly, but none actually have any play in them, and the anti roll bar itself hasn't snapped. Springs all round are fine too - It's interesting this is asked though, as I first noticed the noise after what I thought sounded like a bolt/piece of spring had come away from the car, and hit the road (Hard to explain, but that's what it sounded like lol). I drove on roughly 100m, and that was then the first time I started to hear this noise. I have checked round since to check that any bolts etc appear to be missing, but everything I removed to fit the new drive shaft is still secure and in place.

There's definitely no noise when standing still, no vibrations on idle, or when picking the revs up when still either :/

 

[gaz_360]

Having had a bit of a read around on here, looks like some people have had issues with the 'dog bone' mount causing the engine to slope backwards slightly, then having the exhaust manifold catch on the subframe and bulkhead.

I'll perhaps have to check out this 'dog mount', and see what sort of condition it's in. Although I think other peeps have gotten the noise when accelerating pretty hard. The noise on mine appears when riding the clutch lol

 

[James28]

Mine made a weird rattle noise when the engine was under load, turned out to be the cat > centre pipe exhaust clamp squeaking!
I would have a look at the exhaust/heatshields! Maybe try jacking the car up and get someone to engage the clutch until you can hear the noise then get underneath and see if you can source the location of the noise.

 

[ben lee]

when you say you checked the coil spring did you remove it to check? as ive had a few snap on the last bit of the coil not visible on the car that make that sort of noise on the road when broken. also are the brake pads secure as had them rattle in the calipers before.
have you left any tools up on the scuttle panel area that could be there?
have you also checked your gearbox oil level since replacing the drive shaft?

 

[gaz_360]

when you say you checked the coil spring did you remove it to check? as ive had a few snap on the last bit of the coil not visible on the car that make that sort of noise on the road when broken. also are the brake pads secure as had them rattle in the calipers before.
have you left any tools up on the scuttle panel area that could be there?
have you also checked your gearbox oil level since replacing the drive shaft?

Thanks for the replies everyone, excellent stuff - Got to love this forum

I'll certainly have more of a look around the exhaust area next chance I get, as it is certainly more of a 'metal on metal' sound. Only thing that originally made me think it wasn't related was it sounds as if it's far over on the OS. Something I'll look into next time I get chance to pop underneath it.

As to the removal of the spring, yes it's all been off. The whole lot was stripped to fit the new strut top. I originally thought it was a bit of spring, but it appears to all be in order.

I did do a strip and clean on the pads when doing the drive shaft. As it was all in the same area, I thought it would be worth doing so. My instant thought when I first heard the noise was brake pad chatter, however I've since checked, and they're both secure on the OS, and seem to fit nicely into the holders. Everything has been torqued up, and copper slip applied where needed.

If I'm honest I can't answer the tool one lol. I haven't a clue. I'm confident I haven't noticed any missing tools, and everything is in it's place in my box - All nicely lined up in order of name

With the OS drive shaft, thankfully you don't loose any oil, so it's not something I've looked into. I can certainly check the level next time it's in the air though.

Once again thanks for the replies everyone, I'll try a few bits that have been advised, and see if anything stops it. Tis getting more annoying by the day it seems :/

 

[James28]

I thought my noise was coming from the NSF, but when I actually got properly under to investigate, that's when I realised it was the exhaust centre join!

 

[gaz_360]

Bit of an update on this thread, instead of starting a new one again.

Got chance to have a wee look underneath today. Couldn't find anything out of the ordinary with the exhaust, and also checked the bottom arm bushes. There doesn't seem to be much play in these, but there are a few crack/perish marks in the rubbers, and the bolt holes almost look to of been rusting slightly.

The noise certainly seems to be getting more constant, and louder on my normal works journey. There are certain bits of road it does it on every time. I got the chance earlier this week to experiment on one particular bit of road, and found that it doesn't do it while braking... very strange lol. So while the car was jacked up this morning, I did a strip and clean again, just to make sure everything was seated nicely. As normal, I torqued everything up afterwards, and the noise still persists.

This then got me thinking about the engine mounts again, as if the braking stops the noise, does this mean it's shifting the weight, and therefore stopping an item in the engine bay coming into contact? But I can't think what

Also my other thought was the strut top mount bearing assembly again. I got a none genuine one from Euro car parts, as they're local, and know them pretty well. Has anyone experienced the none genuine ones to be any good? When it was originally replaced, I was certain that was the cause, as when it was removed from the car, you could move the whole bearing a couple of mm in any direction. However once the new one was on, this was also the case. I got in touch with my local Renault dealer, and they said the play is normal, until the weight is on the car. Can anyone else confirm this? I suppose the easy (but slightly long) way of checking would be to see what the NS one is like.

Now to add to the random noises on this car, I think my clutch release bearing has either 'dried' up, or is on the way out, as when 'free wheeling' in neutral, there is quite a horrible noise coming from the centre of the car, that sounds like a faint grinding/catching noise.

These little niggles are really starting to get annoying now, the car is booked in with Birchdown to have the belts and steering arms done in two weeks time, but I'm really considering is it worth keeping the car at all... :/

Sorry, rant over Any suggestions would be extremely appreciated at this point, as always

 

[w33 brl]

I had the same probably with my exhaust realigned it 2 or 3 times and it would clear for a while then it came back last night, only thing i could think of was a engine mount was away allowing the engine to move more causing the exhaust to split.

so got the car in the garage and checked the dog bone mount first that was fine the check the engine mount was fine but replaced it with the vibratech mount i had sitting anyway, then checked the gearbox mount and it was knackered

might be worth a look

 

[gaz_360]

I had the same probably with my exhaust realigned it 2 or 3 times and it would clear for a while then it came back last night, only thing i could think of was a engine mount was away allowing the engine to move more causing the exhaust to split.

so got the car in the garage and checked the dog bone mount first that was fine the check the engine mount was fine but replaced it with the vibratech mount i had sitting anyway, then checked the gearbox mount and it was knackered

might be worth a look

Wow, thanks for the reply mate. That doesn't look good at all. If I'm honest I haven't really even looked around the NS of the car, as I'm confident the noise is coming from the OS. However it's possible it could be causing something on the opposite side to knock. I'll certainly look into the gearbox mount some more.

Now it's been mentioned, I can get it to knock (different knock though) when it's in reverse, and you bring the clutch up with the handbrake still on. Was trying to get it to make the original noise, then a slightly different one happened lol.

Thanks again, will keep this thread updated if I ever find it. Hope it will help someone out one day

 

[gaz_360]

Another update on this thread for anyone who's not quite bored enough yet

Have got this week booked off work, so quite determined to find out what this noise is.

Was speaking to the chap who owns our local Euro store, and he very kindly swapped the ball joint for me, however after changing it again, the noise was still there. This then got me thinking that the hub bit where the BBJ goes through may have become an oval. Having measured it, it still seemed pretty round, but not ruling it out completely.

Spoke to our local Renault master tec, he had been out in the car, and wasn't 100% on the noise, but suggested trying another strut, and/or engine mount.

Managed to get hold of a strut from a 182, and found that the spring that's currently on the car isn't genuine, it's got 6 coils as opposed to 5. (The passenger side has 5, so assumed that's right?). Also found a couple of other bits while swapping this over.



That little bit of rubber on the engine mount looks to be coming away, but when it's all back together it seems to be sandwiched.



Another thought was this cover, as when I tapped it slightly, it made quite a bad noise. Turned out it wasn't on quite right, and is missing some clips, so managed to cable tie it for now.

Once I put it all back together with the second hand strut, took it for a run, and for roughly 2 miles, it was silent. I thought this had solved it... but no. Got about 20 seconds from home, over slightly un-even ground, and it did it again. Not happy lol. However the noise had changed quite a bit, this time it was more of a 'squeak' than a 'knock'.

Decided to have a search on here, and found a thread about the ARB rubber's drying out under the wish bones. So covered these in WD40, took it for another run and... SILENCE .

So now I'm hoping I've found what it is, I've just got to go about replacing them. Would any one have any suggestions about which ones to go for? I'm thinking OEM with plenty of copper slip, but I may be wrong.

Any advice at this point would be awesome, I'm just keeping fingers crossed that that's it lol Thanks for the help from everyone who's posted in this tread, very appreciated !

 

[gaz_360]

Turns out is wasn't :banghead:

All sounded good until I got half way to work, then I heard it again. It has however cured a slight wheel vibration/wobble I had which is nice lol.

Had it in to Renault today, they went out for a drive and said they could hear it. Got it on the ramp, and they advised I replaced all of the exhaust mounts, as they have pretty much all collapsed. They kindly let me pop into the workshop to have a look, and in fairness when you wobble the back box, it moves the whole lot, including the engine. I'll get them replaced and report back !