Little bit of advise needed!!

[Colchester daz]

I bought a Clio 182 last weekend, 54plate, 80k really nice clean motor. Engine was quite and sounded sweet

Didnt really drive it for a few days as needed to Tax it, so only used it the past couple of days, i haven't even done 100miles and I start to hear a strange noise coming from under the bonnet,
cut a long story short I'm 99% sure it's the dephaser.

Now, I bought it from a trader who said it wouldn't come with warranty because of its age, am I right in thinking the car still has to be fit for purpose and I can ask for my money back? I'm sure I'm right when I say it has to be repaired, replaced or refunded!

Anyone have experience with this? Any legal bods on here that can advise,

Think ill phone trading standards for some advise tomorrow to see if I can shed any light.

 

[plymcl172]

go and see the dealer and go from there

 

[Dannyfrs]

I bought a Clio 182 last weekend, 54plate, 80k really nice clean motor. Engine was quite and sounded sweet

Didnt really drive it for a few days as needed to Tax it, so only used it the past couple of days, i haven't even done 100miles and I start to hear a strange noise coming from under the bonnet,
cut a long story short I'm 99% sure it's the dephaser.

Now, I bought it from a trader who said it wouldn't come with warranty because of its age, am I right in thinking the car still has to be fit for purpose and I can ask for my money back? I'm sure I'm right when I say it has to be repaired, replaced or refunded!

Anyone have experience with this? Any legal bods on here that can advise,

Think ill phone trading standards for some advise tomorrow to see if I can shed any light.

Unfortunately if the dealer has stated it doesn't come with warranty it's classed as a trade sale, meaning if you drive out of his yard and the engine falls out it's your problem. If you wanted a warranty you should of paid for one if possible. Also if you buy a car from a private seller and there's a fault you wouldn't take it back would you. The dealer can't be held accountable for a fault that develops after you have purchased the car.

Sorry to to rant but father in law is a second hand car dealer and the amount of times people come back months after purchasing trying to get silly jobs done on cars that cost less than £2k is a joke.

 

[-J-]

Ignore the above, it's b****cks.

Ignore what the trader told you it's also b****cks.

You purchased the car (be it for a penny or a million quid) it must be fit for purpose. Speak to the trader and see what they say in the first instance.

Search Daniel threads and you will find the advice you need... Make sure you say thanks to him

 

[Daniel]

Unfortunately if the dealer has stated it doesn't come with warranty it's classed as a trade sale, meaning if you drive out of his yard and the engine falls out it's your problem. If you wanted a warranty you should of paid for one if possible. Also if you buy a car from a private seller and there's a fault you wouldn't take it back would you. The dealer can't be held accountable for a fault that develops after you have purchased the car.

Sorry to to rant but father in law is a second hand car dealer and the amount of times people come back months after purchasing trying to get silly jobs done on cars that cost less than £2k is a joke.

Absolute nonsense. Please don't give advice on something you know nothing about.

 

[Chrisgti6]

http://www.which.co.uk/consumer-rig...ght-has-a-problem-what-are-my-rights/#content

worth a read

 

[Chrisgti6]

And this one

http://www.autotrader.co.uk/advice/2010/09/buying/returning-a-car

 

[Dannyfrs]

How is what I'm saying nonsense? If the dealer sells you a car that at the time of sale is fit for purpose and it then develops a fault at a later date how are they now responsible for that fault?

 

[Daniel]

How is what I'm saying nonsense? If the dealer sells you a car that at the time of sale is fit for purpose and it then develops a fault at a later date how are they now responsible for that fault?

Because it's not factual. It makes no sense. Ergo, it's nonsensical. Nonsense.

It's not my opinion, It's the law. I suggest you go and do some research. While you're at it, tell your father in law to do some as well.

If you sell a car to the public, be it for £500 or £10,000 it HAS to be fit for purpose for a reasonable period of time. (Usually 6 months but the law is grey here) No ifs, no buts. As a car dealer, nobody can shirk their responsibilities by saying 'trade sale' or 'sold as seen'. They don't exist unless it's sold through somewhere like ebay on an auction basis. If the car is advertised at a fair price (not £1000 for a 60 plate AMG for example) then the sale of goods act covers each and every purchaser that buys from a car dealer.

 

[Dannyfrs]

Bit of a hostile response!

I understand perfectly that if a trader sells a car with a fault, that depicts a car not being fit for purpose.

But like i said previously if there are no known faults at the time of sale and the buyer is happy with the car and then 1 week, 1 month, 6 months later the car develops a fault, how can the seller be accountable?
Where is the protection for the seller?

Let me give you a different scenario, say somebody buys a car like a sierra cosworth from a dealer and 2 months later it starts to knock, because the buyer hasn't checked the oil everyday as the owners manual says. They realise why put oil in it and take it back to the dealer. Is the dealer now expected to refund the buyers money or replace the engine???

 

[Daniel]

I'm not even bothering to read your post, because you're spouting your opinion, not fact.

Like I say, go and do some research on the sale of goods act regarding secondhand vehicles, and come back to this thread afterwards.

I agree, it's a s**t law, the whole thing needs changing from top to bottom, but it's the law, there is fcuk all you can do about it.

 

[Gally]

If anyone knows how s**t that law is, it's Dan.

 

[Dannyfrs]

I do know about the sale of goods act Daniel.

A car being fit for purpose means it can safely be driven on the road . Do they check the decibel rating of a dephaser pulley on MOTs nowadays?

Satisfactory quality should be assessed taking into account mileage, age and price.

And legally you are only entitled to a full refund, replacement or repair if the car was faulty at the time of sale.
Anything after that it's between you and the seller and will have to go to court if an amicable solution can't be found.

As you rightly said the law is bullshit and needs serious adaptation.

 

[Russ_16v]

Bit of a hostile response!

I understand perfectly that if a trader sells a car with a fault, that depicts a car not being fit for purpose.

But like i said previously if there are no known faults at the time of sale and the buyer is happy with the car and then 1 week, 1 month, 6 months later the car develops a fault, how can the seller be accountable?
Where is the protection for the seller?

Let me give you a different scenario, say somebody buys a car like a sierra cosworth from a dealer and 2 months later it starts to knock, because the buyer hasn't checked the oil everyday as the owners manual says. They realise why put oil in it and take it back to the dealer. Is the dealer now expected to refund the buyers money or replace the engine???

Danny, it may have come over as a bit hostile, but Dan has been replying to threads like these for many years.

As a trader myself, as Dan says we have to abide by the law and yes - you MUST sell a car that is fit for purpose for a reasonable amount of time - it is a s**t law for dealers/traders but it's the law.

The time for a 'reasonable amount of time' is normally about 6 months as Dan has said - it is a grey area mind, take an example of if you sold a car for half it's value and it blows up 4.5 months down the line you could have reasonable grounds to say that you should not fit all the bill, but again it's not set in stone.

So yes, you can take it back to the dealer, though as the dephaser won't actually fail for a LONG time i'm not sure if you will be able to push for the work to be carried out.

Still, i'd try to get a bot of money back, then take it to one of the specialists on here to be done so you know the timing will be done right.

 

[Kelv]

Daniel, what's your opinion on this one while your attentions on this topic and mind is in motion.

we bought a 57 plate 197 R27, 72k on the clock and FRSH, car appeared to be pretty spot on and I was happy to pay the advertised price tag as the dealer wouldn't move on price in the slightest.

The misses drove the car home, midway it started to rain and once home she said the wipers slowly became noisy and then noisier until we got home.
on a quick investigation I realised one of the wiper linkage fixing points had a crack and as the wipers hit full travel this crack was opening up and then clinking back into location, no big drama I thought, simple fix and I'll conquer it over the coming weekends.

a week later, the steering started clonking across a few speed bumps through our village, popped it on a mates ramp to find a lower ball joint was fooked, you could litterally move it by hand and hear it making the noise.
down side, the ball joint on the 197 is a complete hub, with us heading to Germany within 2 days I bit the bullet and bought a brand new genuine hub at just over £200, and paid a mate in his garage (at mates rates) £100 to change it and then redo the geo to have it back to how it should be.

went on holiday, and a few miles in the exhaust manifold started blowing, so much so that by the time we got home one of the two flexi pipes with the manifold was pretty blown to smithereens and sounding like a tractor.
since being home a little over 5 weeks now we haven't even used or touched the car as we can't warrant the outlay to buy a new manifold or the costs to have it changed.

to this day, we used the car for the first 3 weeks of ownership, cost us a good few quid which I'm a bit cheesed off about, and possibly going to cost us a lot more to get it usable again due to the manifold.
we have owned the car pretty much bang on 8 weeks today.

do you reckon I've got a valid argument if I went back to the dealer and request a bit of financial help with getting it sorted and to cover the costs of the hub change?
all receipts still retained or proof.

just after your opinion from a traders angle.
take it on the chin as a second hand car, or have I left it too long to question them since ownership?

Cheers

 

[Russ_16v]

You bought it 8 weeks ago mate? I would be straight back with it.

You are well within your rights to have them fix the issues, though the hub one may be a little harder due to them not seeing it before hand - I would ask the dealer, then speak to Renault customer services to see about some possible compensation - if they had seen the hub on the car worn it would be pretty easy, but you may have some leaverage by saying you were off to Germany so had to get it fixed.

The manifold should be fixed by them, as the wiper IMO

 

[Daniel]

Biiiiig post

That's a difficult one mate because you haven't given the dealer a chance to repair.

If I was in that dealers shoes, i'd tell you (politely) to fcuk off. If one of my cars breaks, I want it back at my garage so that a) my mechanic can diagnose it and repair it and b) so that I know the customer isn't trying to pull my pants down and get me to pay for a fault that may not exist. That's not say I wouldn't offer a contribution though provided the customer provides me with original receipts.

There's nothing to stop you trying though. If the supplying dealer had the car mot'd, then a fubar'd ball joint should have been picked up for sure. The wiper and exhaust are by the by really as they can be fine one minute and then go at any time. efinitely worth you emailing/writing/calling them though mate.

The best one we had was a man and lady who bought a P plate fiesta from us (old crappy px) for £389. They had the car nearly 4 weeks and came back to us, some 30 miles, to complain that the rear view mirror had fallen down.... My partner was livid. I went to the motor spares shop down the road, bought a sticky pad for 99p and stuck the mirror back on in the most ridiculous position you've ever seen. Utter cretins.

 

[Kelv]

I've still got the old hub sat in the garage, and the receipt from buying the brand new hub two days before the holiday.
in my mind at that point, I didn't have time to waste waiting for them to look at the car and decide what they wanted to do about it.
even as it was, the hub was a special order, and it only turned up the day before we went, so it was all last-minute.com.

but if I hadn't got it sorted, I would have lost just as much on ferry booking, hotels etc etc.

tbh, the hub is now done, I'm happy to stomach that as I agree it was my own decision to go ahead with replacing it, but the manifold is still fooked and the wiper linkage is still broken.
other than that, we still like and want to keep the car, we have no reason to be negative to the dealership or go in moaning at them, they are problems that probably couldn't be predicted, it would just be nice to have a little help to atleast fix the manifold side of things as that's not going to be a cheap fix.

 

[Herr Flick]

Advice. That's my advice.

 

[Daniel]

Like I say mate, you need to speak to them. i'd certainly think they'd look at offering you a contribution seeing as you've had 3 parts fail.

 

[Kelv]

Cheers chap

 

[Colchester daz]

Thanks for all the info and help guys, I would understand the traders view if I had owned it a while and done loads of miles, but 6 days and under 100miles is nothing excessive, and I expect it to last longer than that.

i will call them tomorrow and see how it goes, I'll keep you updated.

what should I expect to pay for the dephaser to be done?

 

[Ol’ Tarby]

Thanks for all the info and help guys, I would understand the traders view if I had owned it a while and done loads of miles, but 6 days and under 100miles is nothing excessive, and I expect it to last longer than that.

i will call them tomorrow and see how it goes, I'll keep you updated.

what should I expect to pay for the dephaser to be done?

5-600 quid from a specialist mate

 

[Russ_16v]

Dephaser will be £150-£180 depending on if you can get a deal from Renault, but the cambelt must be changed at the same time (unles it literally has just been done), so depending on the 172 you have, a belt change can be another £350 or so

 

[Colchester daz]

Dephaser will be £150-£180 depending on if you can get a deal from Renault, but the cambelt must be changed at the same time (unles it literally has just been done), so depending on the 172 you have, a belt change can be another £350 or so

ive got a 182, it says 172 on my profile, because I haven't updated it

 

[Russ_16v]

Ah same price for a 182 mate

 

[Colchester daz]

Ok, im a little confused, went to move the car this morning and noise has completely gone, it seems to be only once the car has warmed up,, any thoughts guys? Or is that the start of it going?

 

[Fred@BTM]

they run off engine oil pressure - so when cold no noise (unless its proper fucked) and when hot - rattle rattle

 

[Fred@BTM]

Dephaser will be £150-£180 depending on if you can get a deal from Renault, but the cambelt must be changed at the same time (unles it literally has just been done), so depending on the 172 you have, a belt change can be another £350 or so

want to do some of mine?? CHEAP!

 

[Russ_16v]

Yes that will be dephaser mate, they are usually quiet until the car has warmed up, then they make a noise. Another way is if you rev the car to about 2500 rpm the noise should go, then return when you return to idle

 

[Colchester daz]

Yes that will be dephaser mate, they are usually quiet until the car has warmed up, then they make a noise. Another way is if you rev the car to about 2500 rpm the noise should go, then return when you return to idle

That was my next question when i have noisy idle it goes when i up the revs, so i think thats confirmed! Dag namit!!!

 

[Colchester daz]

Emailed the company today, got a response saying they had ceased trading as of the 11th, sounds boll*ks but before i bought the car they said they where selling all the stock with the run up to the end of the year to start new things next year,

I spoke to Renault today, they said they would do a cambelt and aux belt change supplied and fitted for 399 inc vat and if i bought a water pump and dephaser they would fit these free of charge, total bill. £637 ouch!

 

[Clart]

Surely a 182 with a noisy dephaser is still fit for purpose for at least 6 months. How many have actually blown up?

I got done buying a 182 cup that turned out to have a noisy dephaser. Yeah its annoying, imo, you either punt it on or if its a decent car, pay the £500 to get it sorted. At least you know it will be good for a few years.

 

[Colchester daz]

I dont consider a car that sounds like a diesel and has a lumpy idle fit for purpose, its not as it should be. but each to there own.

If the trader doesnt pay for it i have no choice but to get it done, i bought it a week ago punting it on is not really an option, log book would show i started ownership 1 week ago and it sounds like a bag of crap! Hardly selling good material is it.