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Issues with Powerflex wishbone bushes
- Thread starter DanielG
- Start date
Clio172cup rally car
That's vid is mad, I've been telling powerflex for the last couple of weeks that these bushes just aint good enough, and there is a lot of people having problems with them. All they keep saying is that my bushes were an isolated case!! Bulls**t!
Got two photos here that show the front bush. As you can see, it is no where NEAR as bad. The odd thing though is that the rear bush on the right side isn't as bad as the left side either.
To be fair though, I think the failure rate must be fairly small. I don't recall ever reading about issues like this on this forum or on the Australian ones.
The sleeves as they are, are in the correct place and welded fine. There's no point welding too much - it won't help my situation and the weld is just there to stop the sleeve from being pushed out of the wishbone, so you don't need much at all! Don't underestimate the strength of a small spot weld.
And we continue on with some more images.
Here we have a ahem, 10mm, gap...
Sure as hell felt tight. And yes, I noticed that the hole in the front bush has been elongated. It's now 21mm x 23mm rather than 22mm. The sleeve can't be pressed in further because of the flare they have put on the end of it. If it wasn't for that, then the sleeve would sit probably 1.5-2mm further out and cover more of the bush. But again, Powerflex don't see this part as an issue so *shrug*
where is the central metal sleeve, did you take it out or was it not in the bush???
Clio 172
Thats one mental video lol.
How the f**k is your wishbone flexing back about 10mm?????
I wouldn't be driving that anywhere!
Also - best video ever posted - gopro?
I really can't understand why your wishbone is flexing back under acceleration - for a start the ARB should stop that as it's a fecking huge piece of metal bar bolted to the tip of the wishbone. You do have your ARB bolted on don't you?
Secondly - There only seems to be you and the other guy on this thread ever have problems with them. Mine have seen stupid amounts of track abuse and i've just had a look at them while I was doing an oil change and they're good as new
I wouldn't be driving that anywhere!
Also - best video ever posted - gopro?
I really can't understand why your wishbone is flexing back under acceleration - for a start the ARB should stop that as it's a fecking huge piece of metal bar bolted to the tip of the wishbone. You do have your ARB bolted on don't you?
Secondly - There only seems to be you and the other guy on this thread ever have problems with them. Mine have seen stupid amounts of track abuse and i've just had a look at them while I was doing an oil change and they're good as new
It's not quite 10mm, I'd say it's probably around 5-6mm that it's moving. And yes, it was my GoPro zip-tied to the steering arm and also sticky taped to try and stop it from moving about lots.
Yes, ARB is definitely bolted on
Thing is, this issue doesn't affect handling that much (there's another part of the video that's not on YouTube where I take a corner at a decent pace and there is nothing 'odd' about the movement). The flexing is worst under brakes, not so much acceleration. I'm as clueless as everyone else here as to exactly why this is happening.
Struggler
ClioSport Club Member
Ph1 track 172
surely the inner sleeve should be the length of the gap in the subframe,
and very srong, and the same length as the bush, so its quite baffling why the bush is allowing for such deformation as its implying the 10mm layer of material between the inner and outer sleeve is allowing for a lot amount of deformation in the sheer direction....this should really not be happening!!
also just want to clarify that this is NOT the inner sleeve (from the angle/light it looks like there may be a very tiny sleeve in there!!)
and very srong, and the same length as the bush, so its quite baffling why the bush is allowing for such deformation as its implying the 10mm layer of material between the inner and outer sleeve is allowing for a lot amount of deformation in the sheer direction....this should really not be happening!!
also just want to clarify that this is NOT the inner sleeve (from the angle/light it looks like there may be a very tiny sleeve in there!!)
I literally can't understand how it's possible
The inside of that bush has completely ovaled and the whole wishbone is moving back and forth
How the f*ck?
The force required to bend back the ARB and deform those bushes to allow movement in the wishbone should be massive - but it's doing it just on braking
Amazed - something is seriously wrong somewhere
The inside of that bush has completely ovaled and the whole wishbone is moving back and forth
How the f*ck?
The force required to bend back the ARB and deform those bushes to allow movement in the wishbone should be massive - but it's doing it just on braking
Amazed - something is seriously wrong somewhere
Here's a photo with the inner sleeve in place just to assure you that it's there
As for how the movement is occurring, I don't really know. ARB's are designed to stop vertical movement, not sure just how effective it'd be at stopping the wishbone from moving backwards. Maybe I should try and get the camera to get birds eye view of the wishbone so you can see how it's flexing...
As for how the movement is occurring, I don't really know. ARB's are designed to stop vertical movement, not sure just how effective it'd be at stopping the wishbone from moving backwards. Maybe I should try and get the camera to get birds eye view of the wishbone so you can see how it's flexing...
That'd be a really good idea - could you clamp it up in the arch somewhere or to the shocker looking down?
I know they aren't supposed to stop horizontal flex - but feck it's a massive lump of steel bar lol
I know they aren't supposed to stop horizontal flex - but feck it's a massive lump of steel bar lol
bozothenutter
ClioSport Club Member
Hmm, re reading this...very tempted now to make up my own sleeves for this.
a thick(er) outer sleeve with a machined step to fit in the wishbone, all to be pushes in from the outside.
anybody know what grade of steel is used for the sleeve?
seems to be regular steel 1mm pipe, upgrading that to 2mm with a machined step would do it.
a thick(er) outer sleeve with a machined step to fit in the wishbone, all to be pushes in from the outside.
anybody know what grade of steel is used for the sleeve?
seems to be regular steel 1mm pipe, upgrading that to 2mm with a machined step would do it.
Evo 5 RS
That video makes me weep
What an epic video!
For it to be moving forward that much under breaking sure it implies that the other mount isnt fitting the yoke well enough in the subframe as it will be the job of the thick overlapping section of bush to stop the arm moving forward, and then that ones job will be to stop it moving backwards, and both of them resist it rotating front to back.
For it to be moving forward that much under breaking sure it implies that the other mount isnt fitting the yoke well enough in the subframe as it will be the job of the thick overlapping section of bush to stop the arm moving forward, and then that ones job will be to stop it moving backwards, and both of them resist it rotating front to back.
From this picture, the thicker bit of bush is the bit that is meant to stop the arm moving, if you start relying on the sleeve to do that job instead, its going to be cutting into the frame, I think its a total red herring where everyone is obsessing over the sleeve's positioning as its such thin metal its going to do very little anyway if subjected to that sort of movement in the opposing bush as per the video.
Can you get some install photos of the undamaged opposite bush as well? To see how tightly located that is?
If it moves forward and your nice thick steel is then pressing up against the subframe it will damage it.
TBH the best option would just be some spherical bearings if you want to really eliminate movement.
bozothenutter
ClioSport Club Member
true, never tought of that...better break the sleeve than the subframe
.
live & learn
Indeed, its the thick part of the bush that stops the forward and back movement, if its killing the thinner edge of one bush I would wager the other bush is not clamped up tightly enough.
I think the sleeve is just a red herring a few people are wrongly obsessing over in this case.
Even not welded, or wrongly positioned it wouldnt effect this side of things.
172 Ph1
Here's mine fitted , no issues after 2 yrs.
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The back bush stops forward movement of the whole arm by virtue of the fact that the arm when it tries to move cant as the thick part of the bush is in its way which in term is resisted by pressing up against the subframe yoke, and vice versa for the front bush stopping backwards movement.
And then a twisting of the arm where the balljoint end tries to swing forwards and backwards is resisted by both, the load being transmitted from the arm to the bush to the central pin which should be firmly sandwiched in the yoke on the subframe.
172 Ph1
I bloody hope so Chip lol
Sorry I dont understand the question.
But best wishbones for a road car if that is what you are asking, are standard ones with new standard bushes.
mad in general
ClioSport Club Member
Clio 172 phase 2
I think he is asking whether or not you should have the car supporting its own weight before torqueing the wishbone bolts up.
Should you?
