ClioSport.net

Register a free account today to become a member!
Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

E36 3.0 ITB Race Build



JB21

ClioSport Club Member
Fair play for the re-shell. Think I would have called it a day after Spa. Get it down to Oulton 2/3, few going off here now. Always good to see this out on track.
 

JamesBryan

ClioSport Club Member
  Titanium 182
Fair play for the re-shell. Think I would have called it a day after Spa. Get it down to Oulton 2/3, few going off here now. Always good to see this out on track.
He's booked on mate.

He's the one that told me about it 😂
 

JB21

ClioSport Club Member
Haha pretty much.

Should have a passenger lap in it mate, it's mega.
Haha no chance, last time we were there at the same time he binned it at Druids with your John in it if I remember? Terrible passenger me mate, made Mike stop after 1 lap of Croft so I could get out, lol.
 

JamesBryan

ClioSport Club Member
  Titanium 182
Haha no chance, last time we were there at the same time he binned it at Druids with your John in it if I remember? Terrible passenger me mate, made Mike stop after 1 lap of Croft so I could get out, lol.
Yeah that was the time at Druids.
 
Not tempted to dry sump it?
Don't see the point really, for the expense anyway. At the end of the day its a cheap engine to repair and run, not like an S5x. With the oil pump no longer an issue, and running quite a large oil capacity, it will be fine. If it was a 'built' high compression N/A motor I would consider it, but I'm not chasing power or numbers. I'm already above the power to weight limit of the class I want to run it in...

Fair play for the re-shell. Think I would have called it a day after Spa. Get it down to Oulton 2/3, few going off here now. Always good to see this out on track.
Yeah as James said, I was the first to book haha. Given me a date to work towards before heading out to Spa at the end of March. There are 9 of us in our group on, from Adams ITB Mk1 to an E36 turbo. Should be a good shake down.
 

JB21

ClioSport Club Member
Don't see the point really, for the expense anyway. At the end of the day its a cheap engine to repair and run, not like an S5x. With the oil pump no longer an issue, and running quite a large oil capacity, it will be fine. If it was a 'built' high compression N/A motor I would consider it, but I'm not chasing power or numbers. I'm already above the power to weight limit of the class I want to run it in...



Yeah as James said, I was the first to book haha. Given me a date to work towards before heading out to Spa at the end of March. There are 9 of us in our group on, from Adams ITB Mk1 to an E36 turbo. Should be a good shake down.
Nice! Look forward to seeing them all out on track. I'll be in the silver Octavia pottering around the track 😂
 

Waitey

ClioSport Club Member
  Rangie Sport, Westie
Don't see the point really, for the expense anyway. At the end of the day its a cheap engine to repair and run, not like an S5x. With the oil pump no longer an issue, and running quite a large oil capacity, it will be fine. If it was a 'built' high compression N/A motor I would consider it, but I'm not chasing power or numbers. I'm already above the power to weight limit of the class I want to run it in...



Yeah as James said, I was the first to book haha. Given me a date to work towards before heading out to Spa at the end of March. There are 9 of us in our group on, from Adams ITB Mk1 to an E36 turbo. Should be a good shake down.
Only thought after all the oil issues you’ve had.
 
Only thought after all the oil issues you’ve had.
Yeah, well its either many thousands for that, versus a sub £100 kit to fix the oil pump nut issue.
The ATI Superdamper was VERY expensive, but not really anything to do with the oil, more so the poor harmonics of the crankshaft... without it I would be stuck at sub 6800rpm in reality!
 

Waitey

ClioSport Club Member
  Rangie Sport, Westie
Yeah, well its either many thousands for that, versus a sub £100 kit to fix the oil pump nut issue.
The ATI Superdamper was VERY expensive, but not really anything to do with the oil, more so the poor harmonics of the crankshaft... without it I would be stuck at sub 6800rpm in reality!
So the failure is vibration related. Interesting!

Cars always find a way to be a b*****d.
 
So the failure is vibration related. Interesting!

Cars always find a way to be a b*****d.
Yep, thats it!

This crank is 89.5mm stroke, 84mm bore, to get the ~3.0 capacity. Great for torque, not so much for revving highly (over square). I'm spinning it to 7300rpm, with the damper, not high in the grand scheme of things, but considering this crank only revs to mid 6's in standard form I'm compromising on the limit for reliability, shame the power curve is still rising at this point. The M3 however, had 86mm bore, 86mm stroke... giving it the ability to rev higher with the same 3.0 capacity, albeit with much lower peak torque
 

Waitey

ClioSport Club Member
  Rangie Sport, Westie
Yep, thats it!

This crank is 89.5mm stroke, 84mm bore, to get the ~3.0 capacity. Great for torque, not so much for revving highly (over square). I'm spinning it to 7300rpm, with the damper, not high in the grand scheme of things, but considering this crank only revs to mid 6's in standard form I'm compromising on the limit for reliability, shame the power curve is still rising at this point. The M3 however, had 86mm bore, 86mm stroke... giving it the ability to rev higher with the same 3.0 capacity, albeit with much lower peak torque
Like my old Duratec. I ran the 2.0 at 9200rpm with a 87.5mm bore and 83.1mm stroke.

My mate ran a 2.5 with 89mm bore and 100mm stroke and it did not like 8300rpm! Although the Honda K24 will do nearly 9k happily with 87mm bore and 99mm stroke.
 
Like my old Duratec. I ran the 2.0 at 9200rpm with a 87.5mm bore and 83.1mm stroke.

My mate ran a 2.5 with 89mm bore and 100mm stroke and it did not like 8300rpm! Although the Honda K24 will do nearly 9k happily with 87mm bore and 99mm stroke.
Yeah, its not so bad in 4 cyl, the length of the crank amplifies the problem exponentially 4cyl vs 6cyl etc. I removed some weight from the stock M54 crank this time (trigger wheel + mountings that I do not use), and started using the Superdamper. I could probably go a bit more on the RPM, but I don't NEED the power and prefer reliability. I'd be more confident in pushing the RPM limits with aftermarket internals over the standard pistons and rods mind!
 
More time spent working through the list of jobs over the last two weeks - not a lot of pictures but most of it is time consuming work! The front end is now completely built up, with both oil and power steering coolers, making sure to support all four corners and mounting on rubber. The oil and power steering lines then went on with new washers/seals in all the usual places.

9d208d4c0fabcc713c282f576c4fd395.jpg

6f99688eb2d418e0d66f21e2ae51cd34.jpg


The fuel tank was refitted, with new fuel lines all the way to the engine, and a new filter. Then the prop shaft, including a new center support bearing.

6dfd0270f298aa276b1c6b8b654e0bed.jpg


The last two big jobs that were holding it back from having the interior painted were the shifter re-position and pedal mounting. As I am no longer running standard pedals, a substantial mounting plate had to be fabricated. It look quite a long time to decide on position, as the seat is now much further back and the steering column has also been moved. After much deliberation I decided and got it done.

1f109a82d9f9a98fd40a48fd9096f21d.jpg

df5617afa3292ef862d1f88867f85aaf.jpg


With everything else moved, the CAE shifter mounting also ideally wanted to be further back. The tunnel was modified and a mounting plate fabricated to suit.

df93cb9bd8cd80a5b53be767bef9ed8c.jpg


After this I fabricated a mount for the fire extinguisher at the front of the passenger footwell, and added some captive threads for mounting the battery cage, battery isolator and various other bits. Aiming to paint the interior in the next few weeks with most of the fabrication work now done. More soon.
 

Goti172

ClioSport Club Member
  Phase 1 CRS
May i ask how do you like the HSDs? Im figuring mine e36s suspension setup and leaning towards some revalved and coilovered bilstein b8 with true coilover setup in the rear but thats a lot of work and for mostly track work probably the hsd are fine
 
May i ask how do you like the HSDs? Im figuring mine e36s suspension setup and leaning towards some revalved and coilovered bilstein b8 with true coilover setup in the rear but thats a lot of work and for mostly track work probably the hsd are fine
For the price range (sub £1k), they are fine and do the job. Although I don't use HSD springs any more... It would benefit from proper suspension, but its just not justified at the moment. It works and the HSDs will stay for now - the next real jump you are talking £2.5k+ for good 2way suspension (KW, etc).
 

Goti172

ClioSport Club Member
  Phase 1 CRS
For the price range (sub £1k), they are fine and do the job. Although I don't use HSD springs any more... It would benefit from proper suspension, but its just not justified at the moment. It works and the HSDs will stay for now - the next real jump you are talking £2.5k+ for good 2way suspension (KW, etc).
You changed spring rates? To what?
 
Just read the whole thread over the last few days. Pretty damn epic. REALLY made me want another BMW 😂
So much happened and always finding better ways to do things...! Hopefully this will come together quite quickly now, painting the interior this weekend and then I have 4 weeks until its first outing 👍
 
After getting numerous quotes to prep and paint the interior of the car, most were ridiculous enough to make it obvious the person did not want the job. I also know I would never be happy paying for it then finding parts missed - so I decided to do it DIY with the help of a few people that have painted cars with cages before. The key thing here was I didn't want a showroom finish, as its going to get used properly, but I wanted it tidy and one colour.

With all the fabrication work complete above, I just had to wait until I could borrow some indoor space to prep and paint it. After a number of hours sanding, cleaning, wiping down and masking everything up...

98f43d635a776ce3f6e96fb3cc8ebdbd.jpg

266cbfd988687b8bff4cb07564558368.jpg

dda090de8fcbab7626de4373e9c76795.jpg

30d2ab20ece2e7e84789d6ff818583fe.jpg


We cracked on and painted it in the same silver as the engine bay.

41135b90bbb0973387da0788d1535578.jpg

a702fe7012d832cc5e392a241f38a480.jpg

0b7d079f618b8cd82612306f84a34914.jpg

0e21fe28b3a8c2a1189b1604c9d9c8f1.jpg

bf0240c2f849c4c9e608ccaeeae3ee9a.jpg

dc2c3909c6219eb3aff8ffd24b09be5e.jpg


The screens are going back in at the weekend, along with the doors and then I can finally build up the interior. More soon.
 
After the interior was painted, I had my heated windscreen re-fitted (Previously removed from the old shell), and then fitted the rear polycarbonate screen myself. I opted for a Plastics4Performance item, as they are local to me, and come with a black border which looks more like a standard rear screen. The rest of this update is a bit all over the place, as I only had a few weeks to sort everything in time for its first test at Oulton Park, so the jobs were all done at different times.

The next job to weatherproof the car was to get my polycarbonate windows in the doors, whilst removing any un-nessecary weight from them and making up some door cards.

42c6675474dbbc93056543c5de060571.jpg

4473dab9cfbee3a4c4ac7e069df4f4f3.jpg

df419d2f3c93372310f749d38d1d3597.jpg


The pedal box was next to go back in, with single line to the rear, where I went through the chassis with the lines that run out to the rear calipers. There is also a brake pressure sensor in the rear circuit. The speed pickup wiring also drops through this grommet to the differential.

3003f916358f39093c72dd164f72d307.jpg

8ebe1d1c4c4fe4a8e60dacc05d51e24e.jpg


With the brakes bled and everything checked, I moved onto the differential oil cooler. I ran this previously as after any hard driving in the dry the oil gets very hot, being a plate LSD cooling is critical so you don't wear out the friction discs quickly. It consists of a Mocal scavenge pump, check valve and a 10 row cooler. The pump is connected to the drain plug, and return to the fill plug. You can see the external pipework in a couple of the pictures lower down. After the initial test day the spare wheel section is to be covered/sealed, and airflow fed in to it from the rear window.

970b6c96a1f13d2a83bf3d2de73ada51.jpg


To make the car compliant for racing, I had to consider a few other electrical items which are manditory, one being a rain light. With the rest of the build being relatively neat, I decided to draw up any brackets I needed at the time and get them cut from stainless. It just makes the assembly so much quicker not having to fabricate the parts manually.

First was a rain light bracket, 2mm stainless which was then bent in a vice, and attached to the roof skin cavity using M5 riv-nuts.

6eb6151c417fc53712353f622579f7b9.png

0e64c679474428ad9bd1bb46c96a55c5.jpg


With the cage being so close to the roof, and the windscreen bar being a further back, I could not mount my rear view mirror to it any more. The same principal applied, 2mm stainless and riv-nuts in the roof cavity.

cbc5f2108be7c740d6ca4689a6d3bb5f.png

b9c65424c8795ac583d81915a39100ad.jpg


I use a Dash2Pro for logging, ECU data and alarms. I also run an AEM wideband for reference, so drew up a mount to combine them both, which would bolt to a bracket I made for the steering column. As can be seen I also had a small bracket cut to the right of the column, for the steering wheel wiring connector, more on this later.

4f5b843cbb6724e47b3ac48640c61e6a.png

dfdab11bf2d46a70006143a6bb73beac.jpg

24b78027fd7dd639eefc15ebcde3b979.jpg

ea44b8aacd01ffecf1a35f4540b6d430.jpg


This brings me on to the wiring. I had previously re-wired the entire car in the previous shell, to simplify everything and run the bare minimum. This time, I decided to make the switch to a solid state power management unit, specifically the ECUMaster PMU16. It negates the need for seperate relays, fuses and controls, and gives the ultimate flexability with functionality.

As previously shown in this thread, I had already made the required changes to my engine loom (pressure sensors and knock control), so I proceeded to spend a couple of weeks planning and designing what would be the new interior, and rear looms. I added in everything I could possibly need moving forward, and utilised all 16 output channels on the power module. I completed the rear loom first, which wasn't too far different from before, it just had a rain light connector added and secondary fuel pump. I am running the same Walbro 255LPH as the main feed pump to the engine, but have added a standard 328/M3 pump/housing into the passenger side of the tank, which is simply lifting fuel to the main side of the tank in a loop to prevent fuel starvation.

Once the rear loom was complete, I made a start on the main body loom which included the ECU and PMU16. I had left four threaded mounting points in the chassis on the passenger side, previously where the standard fusebox would mount, so I could mount a plate there with both units on it. Rather than messing around marking out and drilling the PCD of the mounting points, and PCDs of the ECU and PMU16, I drew it in CAD and had it cut from aluminium.

dd480cc9a0eb0ab9b8f93f8bfe28cd93.jpg


Now I knew there each was mounted, I could build the loom off the car, as the engine, headlight and rear looms all have their own connectors into this 'main body loom'. The planning paid off and a number of very late nights later I was nearly finished. CANBus was also implemented so the PMU can talk to the Dash2Pro and log all voltages/current draw/states of each output. 4x USB power feeds were also built in for cameras and any other devices that may be used in the future.

953834db7a0c8969a4bd8b54ffd17284.jpg


This was then put in the car and routed accordingly - I only have one picture at the moment but will get some fresh ones now everything is in properly soon. The connector you can see labelled 'EXT' is for the external kill switch on the scuttle panel, which at the time was not in place. You can also see the connectors on the bulkhead for engine loom, headlight loom and battery feed for the starter/alternator.

857694ba6f3dacc39529db72d920f18e.jpg
 
ith the PMU16 being able to accept any input to trigger outputs, I was open to do pretty much anything I wanted for the controls. With everything being software based you can build whatever conditions you like. I wanted any critical, reguarly used control on the steering wheel, and the rest which might only be used before you head out on circuit seperately. I already had this in mind when planning the 'main body loom', so I just had to put it together now. I decided on having the following:

Rain Light - Push Button with 3 states (Off, Static, Flashing)
Indicator - Push Button with 4 states (Off, Left, Right, Hazards)
Wipers - Rotary Switch with 4 states (Off, Intermittent 5s, Intermittent 2s, Constant)
Lights - Rotary Switch with 4 states (Off, Sidelights, Dipped Beam, Full Beam)
Flash - Push Button (0.1s Flash Full Beam when held)
Pit Limiter - Latching Push Button (Linked to ECU for Speed Limiter)
Dash2Pro - Push Buttons for Up and Down through the screens

I spent some time drawing the mounting panel up, and printing it to scale so I could offer it up to the wheel.

863379444d51a7c1b226963053fb9f82.png

828a128b7c032133e4b3b2b79d49beaf.jpg


This was then cut from 3mm black acrylic, with some of the text etched, and the switches/buttons/wiring completed. In the mean time I had also drawn up some numbered backgrounds ahd had them cut from vinyl.

c3f533f35e016ce168e1fe5595d09541.jpg

4d16bf27aa0e5fc6e61f862e03c75dad.jpg


In the end I ran out of time to sort the auxiliary switch panel properly, so for Oulton I ended up running a temporary one with the bare minimum required. This will be finished in due course and I will update here once done.

The shifter was then fitted, along with making a new linkage to the gearbox (as the whole shifter is now a significant way back on the tunnel), fitting the seats, harnesses and so on. I had previously made a bracket for the Tilton bias adjuster, which neatly bolts up to the sidemount of the seat for quick access if required.

2b3d5901c355b4f4a72a3e4c3e464915.jpg


After crashing at Spa the exhaust was twisted and kinked, so the plan was always to build a new system. I didn't really have the time to sort it myself, so I spent a day at a place I have previously used having exactly what I wanted fabricating. It turned out great, you can also see the LSD cooler lines in these pictures.

2fb281d40ffe1230e85dd8174e04c7b6.jpg

931dacfcb6334f98f151c7b1ac7e4836.jpg


I wanted to keep the noise down, so went for two silencers, and a 3" straight cut single exit. This worked out well, as it only measured 93db static at Oulton Park. Something I no longer have to think about. The final job was to get the alignment sorted, so a couple of us spent an evening getting it sorted. I plan to play with the settings much more than before moving forward, but started with my previous baseline here.

5c385366b02ec43261891bd7b60def0b.jpg


The car was about set for Oulton Park - some jobs were not finished like extinguisher plumbing, arch rolling and so on. But they were not critical and I now have some time to sort these in the coming weeks. The new driving position, pedals and general feel of the car took some getting used to in the morning, and then just before lunch I got some vibration from the gearbox/propshaft. On investigation the main gearbox > propshaft joint had fallen apart, one of the only parts I had not replaced this time round.

1c651e2f120ddfe7e8b8f77a34420e81.jpg


After fitting a new one during lunch I was back out in the afternoon and got used to driving it again.


This was also the first outing for a mate in his E36 Turbo - with a 328i base engine and GT3076R @ 11psi its making around 400hp. More development to come with this one but a successful first test at least!

f58be53557f9ed6fada411de915cc42f.jpg

2b0de23628b26950ee33589a006b7d5e.jpg


I also made sure to weigh the car before leaving, mainly so I know what numbers to work with for class power to weight entry this year.

708fc7be4bd279be2e8d3652c3c7c5dc.jpg


With a passenger seat, mounting and approximately 40L of fuel it was 1160kg, so without those somewhere around 1100kg. I now have a couple of weeks to finish the jobs I never had time for to get the car ready for a couple of days at Spa Francorchamps - more updates as they happen!
 

Ricardos

ClioSport Club Member
  LY 200 EDC
Was out with this on Spa Francorchamps on the Monday, assume that's the next update 😊
 

Ricardos

ClioSport Club Member
  LY 200 EDC
Had a good couple of days - what car were you in?
Quite a few things to update, I will get it posted soon!
Amazing weather on the Monday, we only booked the one day. I was in the white Mk4 Megane RS
 


Top