Coupe/Defender V8
Re: My Phase 1 ITB Daily Runner
loll how was your trip mate
loll how was your trip mate
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Dan@SJM's 1720v
- Thread starter saltyhair81
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Coupe/Defender V8
Re: My Phase 1 ITB Daily Runner
lol! Hi. I've heard of your troubles Kevin. It's not really a boat mate tbh it's more of an aircraft carrier lets be fair
Glad you got it sorted.
lol! Hi. I've heard of your troubles Kevin. It's not really a boat mate tbh it's more of an aircraft carrier lets be fair
Glad you got it sorted.
Coupe/Defender V8
Re: My Phase 1 ITB Daily Runner
yes mate, I'll have a nose around it
yes mate, I'll have a nose around it
Coupe/Defender V8
Re: My Phase 1 ITB Daily Runner
not a problem mate saw you were busy. Had a pretty insightful chat with James
Next time mate.
not a problem mate saw you were busy. Had a pretty insightful chat with James
Next time mate.
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TrackCar & F30 330d
Re: My Phase 1 ITB Daily Runner
Lol another one!!
I'd love to have a quick drive of somebody elses ITB'd car with a different persons map on to see if i can tell the difference.
My car runs and goes realy well. I wander if i could tel the difference?!
lol! Hi. I've heard of your troubles Kevin. It's not really a boat mate tbh it's more of an aircraft carrier lets be fair
Lol another one!!
I'd love to have a quick drive of somebody elses ITB'd car with a different persons map on to see if i can tell the difference.
My car runs and goes realy well. I wander if i could tel the difference?!
Clio Sport 172 ITB
Re: My Phase 1 ITB Daily Runner
james has been in mine befor tdf mapped it and after tdf mapped it. he noticed a big diffrence
james has been in mine befor tdf mapped it and after tdf mapped it. he noticed a big diffrence
K-Tec Racing
ClioSport Trader
172LBT-172HBT-197-R2
Re: My Phase 1 ITB Daily Runner
Michael,
I hope you can understand my getting involved in this thread, I am pleased to say we have done a great deal of work on your car. What I cannot allow to happen in public forum is your continual bad mouthing of our mapping here at K-Tec Racing. We pride ourselves on customer satisfaction and as with any business of any size, it is this that remains top priority.
Please see below your AFR graph from our Dyno using the High Speed Laboritory sensors, fitted in the decat pipe during mapping, giving the most accurate reading of AFR available. This clearly shows your car running 13.0:1 AFR, the car would not have left us running 13.8:AFR.
We fully accept, as do Pipercross, that we had to recall the ITB Filter in it's first encarnation. All customers including yourselves were advised of this within 2 hours of our demonstrators failing, we were in France when we made the call! You received Pipercross Socks as an immediate replacement.
Clearly the socks, as you were advised, are not as effecient as the combined filter we now supply from ITG. This lower efficiency gives less air flow, meaning your car would have been running slightly richer. This was a change of state from that of the original calibration conditions. With this in mind, it makes the lean running of your car even more questionable as one would have expected to see a richer AFR graph than that posted below.
You advised us of a flat spot on light throttle after fitting the socks, you aksed us if we could have a run out in the car with you to make some "on the fly" amends to the calibration as an interim measure as we were undertaking an engine build which would negate this current calibration, in the near future.
You drove the car, and we found that as expected, the socks were causing the fueling to be rich and due to closed loop feedback. The ecu was compensating for this by taking fuel out, this in turn causes a milisecond delay when you change load as it has to recover from the fuel being removed. By taking some fuel from the base fuel map the car drove much better being closer to its target AFR under closed loop conditions. You commented at the time that it drove much better and were happy to leave it as such in the mean time. If you were not happy with the car, we would have continued until you were so.
Please note that the change in AFR that fitting socks would effect would not cause any engine damage, only a slight lack of response along with the running slightly rich which would show up as the above problem.
At no point was anything on the full load line changed in this session or at any other time to make the car run leaner under full throttle.
After this, we heard no more from you regarding the calibration of your car or any leak coming from your cam cover. As we fitted the cams, any work needed to remedy this would, as in all cases, be covered under warranty and the work carried out as soon as possible. Regarding the cam caps, I beleive this has been explained to you. May I ask where you were told these were fitted incorrectly?
Michael, as I have said to you, in person, if you have any issues you are always able to come to us direct, pick up the phone or email and we have always stepped up to the mark and more. All of a sudden you have gone from being "pro K-Tec" to "anti K-Tec", this thread demonstrates this.
It is always a shame when a good customer no longer seeks your services. It is not acceptable however to be bad mouthed both openly and via PM's to other members without due cause or giving us the opportunity in person to address these issues.
Sean.
Michael,
I hope you can understand my getting involved in this thread, I am pleased to say we have done a great deal of work on your car. What I cannot allow to happen in public forum is your continual bad mouthing of our mapping here at K-Tec Racing. We pride ourselves on customer satisfaction and as with any business of any size, it is this that remains top priority.
Please see below your AFR graph from our Dyno using the High Speed Laboritory sensors, fitted in the decat pipe during mapping, giving the most accurate reading of AFR available. This clearly shows your car running 13.0:1 AFR, the car would not have left us running 13.8:AFR.
We fully accept, as do Pipercross, that we had to recall the ITB Filter in it's first encarnation. All customers including yourselves were advised of this within 2 hours of our demonstrators failing, we were in France when we made the call! You received Pipercross Socks as an immediate replacement.
Clearly the socks, as you were advised, are not as effecient as the combined filter we now supply from ITG. This lower efficiency gives less air flow, meaning your car would have been running slightly richer. This was a change of state from that of the original calibration conditions. With this in mind, it makes the lean running of your car even more questionable as one would have expected to see a richer AFR graph than that posted below.
You advised us of a flat spot on light throttle after fitting the socks, you aksed us if we could have a run out in the car with you to make some "on the fly" amends to the calibration as an interim measure as we were undertaking an engine build which would negate this current calibration, in the near future.
You drove the car, and we found that as expected, the socks were causing the fueling to be rich and due to closed loop feedback. The ecu was compensating for this by taking fuel out, this in turn causes a milisecond delay when you change load as it has to recover from the fuel being removed. By taking some fuel from the base fuel map the car drove much better being closer to its target AFR under closed loop conditions. You commented at the time that it drove much better and were happy to leave it as such in the mean time. If you were not happy with the car, we would have continued until you were so.
Please note that the change in AFR that fitting socks would effect would not cause any engine damage, only a slight lack of response along with the running slightly rich which would show up as the above problem.
At no point was anything on the full load line changed in this session or at any other time to make the car run leaner under full throttle.
After this, we heard no more from you regarding the calibration of your car or any leak coming from your cam cover. As we fitted the cams, any work needed to remedy this would, as in all cases, be covered under warranty and the work carried out as soon as possible. Regarding the cam caps, I beleive this has been explained to you. May I ask where you were told these were fitted incorrectly?
Michael, as I have said to you, in person, if you have any issues you are always able to come to us direct, pick up the phone or email and we have always stepped up to the mark and more. All of a sudden you have gone from being "pro K-Tec" to "anti K-Tec", this thread demonstrates this.
It is always a shame when a good customer no longer seeks your services. It is not acceptable however to be bad mouthed both openly and via PM's to other members without due cause or giving us the opportunity in person to address these issues.
Sean.
Coupe/Defender V8
Re: My Phase 1 ITB Daily Runner
Sorry I should probably just refer to the aircraft carrier again shouldn't I. If you're going to argue over who is right and who is wrong again that's your choice.
Oh and sorry but you'll have to excuse me here why are you producing a graph which means absolutely sod all given the circumstances? Don't worry that is a rhetorical question
Do not post in this thread again - as I remember it, this is a public forum.
Sorry I should probably just refer to the aircraft carrier again shouldn't I. If you're going to argue over who is right and who is wrong again that's your choice.
Oh and sorry but you'll have to excuse me here why are you producing a graph which means absolutely sod all given the circumstances? Don't worry that is a rhetorical question
Do not post in this thread again - as I remember it, this is a public forum.
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Coupe/Defender V8
Re: My Phase 1 ITB Daily Runner
May I just add, if you're going to throw the anti k-tec in there. That I have no problem with your services as far as your workshop is concerned - I explained to David... numerous times
The anti - spurs almost 100% in this case from PISS poor engine calibration. That graph - is from my original calibration ... not my 'adjustments' that were carried out on the road...
Even though you had a perfectly good dyno just a blip round the corner? You've picked sour a day to come in here I can tell you.
If you have any thing else you want to add - email me
May I just add, if you're going to throw the anti k-tec in there. That I have no problem with your services as far as your workshop is concerned - I explained to David... numerous times
The anti - spurs almost 100% in this case from PISS poor engine calibration. That graph - is from my original calibration ... not my 'adjustments' that were carried out on the road...
Even though you had a perfectly good dyno just a blip round the corner? You've picked sour a day to come in here I can tell you.
If you have any thing else you want to add - email me
K-Tec Racing
ClioSport Trader
172LBT-172HBT-197-R2
Re: My Phase 1 ITB Daily Runner
As it is a public forum Michael, it is my duty to respond where the reputation of K-Tec Racing is being brought into disrepute. In this case it is you making these comments to which I too have the right of reply. I will exercise this, within the rules of the forum.
Please address the points I have raised in order to justify your comments, if you are unwilling to do so, it must be assumed your critisisms are unfounded.
Sean.
As it is a public forum Michael, it is my duty to respond where the reputation of K-Tec Racing is being brought into disrepute. In this case it is you making these comments to which I too have the right of reply. I will exercise this, within the rules of the forum.
Please address the points I have raised in order to justify your comments, if you are unwilling to do so, it must be assumed your critisisms are unfounded.
Sean.
Coupe/Defender V8
Re: My Phase 1 ITB Daily Runner
when you can justify why my car was mapped "on the fly" as you call it - I'll consider it. The one that Andy told me later on - was a completely different map.
Oh, would that not make that graph even more up to scrutiny?
I fail to understand why you are instigating this...I can't see it ending well
A slight P.S - I'd like to clarify that not at any point did I ask for ON THE FLY amendments to be carried out. That was your chief engineers decision.
when you can justify why my car was mapped "on the fly" as you call it - I'll consider it. The one that Andy told me later on - was a completely different map.
Oh, would that not make that graph even more up to scrutiny?
I fail to understand why you are instigating this...I can't see it ending well
A slight P.S - I'd like to clarify that not at any point did I ask for ON THE FLY amendments to be carried out. That was your chief engineers decision.
K-Tec Racing
ClioSport Trader
172LBT-172HBT-197-R2
Re: My Phase 1 ITB Daily Runner
Michael,
It is clear that you are seeking to discredit our mapping abilities, based on, what I would suspect is perhaps a lack of experience and a reverberation of others opinions, rather than your complete understanding of engine calibration.
The changes made to your calibration, on the road, with you present are direct result of your input, ie, thats better, thats worse. Road calibration is a valid part of overall vehicle calibration, especially in road cars, we very rarley drive at full throttle on the road and it was not on WOT that you were noticing the problem. Amendments were made to the calibration only below 30% throttle. You asked for us to have look at it, we did, you stated you were happy with the changes made, you left, you were not charged. Had you asked for a full calibration on the Dyno, all you would have had to have done is ask.
If you can explain in clear and concise terms where the calibration on your car, which was carried out both on the Dyno and the Road, as we do with all calibrations, was "Piss" poor we can look into it in the detail it deserves. As you are aware it would be foolish to ignore a problem, worse still however to not investigate it properly, what ever the outcome.
I have 100% confidence in Andy's abilities, there are 100's of vehicle owners of differing kinds and preparations out there who I know feel the same, on this forum and otherwise. If you want to make a point, make it. If you can't or you don't I suggest you drop your campaign now.
Sean.
Michael,
It is clear that you are seeking to discredit our mapping abilities, based on, what I would suspect is perhaps a lack of experience and a reverberation of others opinions, rather than your complete understanding of engine calibration.
The changes made to your calibration, on the road, with you present are direct result of your input, ie, thats better, thats worse. Road calibration is a valid part of overall vehicle calibration, especially in road cars, we very rarley drive at full throttle on the road and it was not on WOT that you were noticing the problem. Amendments were made to the calibration only below 30% throttle. You asked for us to have look at it, we did, you stated you were happy with the changes made, you left, you were not charged. Had you asked for a full calibration on the Dyno, all you would have had to have done is ask.
If you can explain in clear and concise terms where the calibration on your car, which was carried out both on the Dyno and the Road, as we do with all calibrations, was "Piss" poor we can look into it in the detail it deserves. As you are aware it would be foolish to ignore a problem, worse still however to not investigate it properly, what ever the outcome.
I have 100% confidence in Andy's abilities, there are 100's of vehicle owners of differing kinds and preparations out there who I know feel the same, on this forum and otherwise. If you want to make a point, make it. If you can't or you don't I suggest you drop your campaign now.
Sean.
Coupe/Defender V8
Re: My Phase 1 ITB Daily Runner
Sean, you couldn't be more wrong - lack of research and knowledge is what left this unnoticed so long in the first instance.
But thank you for pointing out that you are in fact the specialist not me.
Which is completely contradictory if you're then going on to say I was happy with it.
You're happy with terminal illness until you know you've got it to be frank.
I've made my point already. It's you whom seem hell bent on trying to prove me wrong.
My car left you running 13.8:1 under load ...but you nor I have no way of proving that, do we?
I guess we'll just have to let people decide for themselves.
A very ignorant Michael.
Sean, you couldn't be more wrong - lack of research and knowledge is what left this unnoticed so long in the first instance.
But thank you for pointing out that you are in fact the specialist not me.
Which is completely contradictory if you're then going on to say I was happy with it.
You're happy with terminal illness until you know you've got it to be frank.
I've made my point already. It's you whom seem hell bent on trying to prove me wrong.
My car left you running 13.8:1 under load ...but you nor I have no way of proving that, do we?
I guess we'll just have to let people decide for themselves.
A very ignorant Michael.
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K-Tec Racing
ClioSport Trader
172LBT-172HBT-197-R2
Re: My Phase 1 ITB Daily Runner
Michael,
I am not quite sure what you are trying to say in that post, but I am quite certain I do not think you are ignorant. All I seek is to understand what quantifies "piss poor" mapping and how this was affecting the car. Our dyno computer saves all our runs, your outgoing graphs, including AFR will be logged there, these cannot be tampered with, they are stored outside of the users access, they can be recalled but not tampered with. Any Dyno Dynamics user will verify this.
I also have copies of both fuel maps, taken from your original calibration, verified by the dyno records and that after your road session with Andy, the changes are highlighted in the mapping software, these can also not be tampered with. We use GEMS GW4 with a plug in for Omex 600. This software cannot be manipulated by the user, again, please feel free to check.
With this in mind, yes I can prove that what we are saying is right.
I’m afraid I find references to critical illness in poor taste.
Sean.
Michael,
I am not quite sure what you are trying to say in that post, but I am quite certain I do not think you are ignorant. All I seek is to understand what quantifies "piss poor" mapping and how this was affecting the car. Our dyno computer saves all our runs, your outgoing graphs, including AFR will be logged there, these cannot be tampered with, they are stored outside of the users access, they can be recalled but not tampered with. Any Dyno Dynamics user will verify this.
I also have copies of both fuel maps, taken from your original calibration, verified by the dyno records and that after your road session with Andy, the changes are highlighted in the mapping software, these can also not be tampered with. We use GEMS GW4 with a plug in for Omex 600. This software cannot be manipulated by the user, again, please feel free to check.
With this in mind, yes I can prove that what we are saying is right.
I’m afraid I find references to critical illness in poor taste.
Sean.
Coupe/Defender V8
Re: My Phase 1 ITB Daily Runner
right, so why wasn't I shown the amendments when I asked for them? Instead I have David on the phone asking if it would be possible to see the map which is now on there.
Seriously, if you don't like my references you can jog on, Sean. There's nothing more to be said
right, so why wasn't I shown the amendments when I asked for them? Instead I have David on the phone asking if it would be possible to see the map which is now on there.
Seriously, if you don't like my references you can jog on, Sean. There's nothing more to be said
K-Tec Racing
ClioSport Trader
172LBT-172HBT-197-R2
Re: My Phase 1 ITB Daily Runner
Michael,
There is no problem with showing you the amendments, what do you mean by this?
You had reported to us the changes where dramatic! The calibration side of the business is just that, a part of it. What if we had have made a mistake? Faulty sensors? New Dyno just installed it was possible.
At this point Michael, you can ring the people you have enjoyed a good relationship with and say “Hey, come on guys, what’s this all about?”
We would have reacted immediately. Sadly instead of this you have fueled a campaign to discredit us that I feel is unjustified. I hope you can understand my position.
Sean.
Michael,
There is no problem with showing you the amendments, what do you mean by this?
You had reported to us the changes where dramatic! The calibration side of the business is just that, a part of it. What if we had have made a mistake? Faulty sensors? New Dyno just installed it was possible.
At this point Michael, you can ring the people you have enjoyed a good relationship with and say “Hey, come on guys, what’s this all about?”
We would have reacted immediately. Sadly instead of this you have fueled a campaign to discredit us that I feel is unjustified. I hope you can understand my position.
Sean.
Coupe/Defender V8
Re: My Phase 1 ITB Daily Runner
at least I've not made "down with" banners, that was my next step
As much as I admire your stand - lets just leave it there. It needn't be mentioned again.
at least I've not made "down with" banners, that was my next step
As much as I admire your stand - lets just leave it there. It needn't be mentioned again.
172 cup
Re: My Phase 1 ITB Daily Runner
very nice mate.like it.
very nice mate.like it.
Coupe/Defender V8
Re: My Phase 1 ITB Daily Runner
OH by the way, can someone send me some replacement socks as I never received these - had to buy them myself:clap:
OH by the way, can someone send me some replacement socks as I never received these - had to buy them myself:clap:
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K-Tec Racing
ClioSport Trader
172LBT-172HBT-197-R2
Re: My Phase 1 ITB Daily Runner
Michael,
OK I will look in to that for you.
Sean.
Michael,
OK I will look in to that for you.
Sean.
Coupe/Defender V8
Re: My Phase 1 ITB Daily Runner
wow, that sounds very familiar that!
Very retarded indeed.
Stick to your base maps tbh
wow, that sounds very familiar that!
Very retarded indeed.
Stick to your base maps tbh
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K-Tec Racing
ClioSport Trader
172LBT-172HBT-197-R2
Re: My Phase 1 ITB Daily Runner
Michael,
I would like you to answer my questions in order to justify your comment of "Piss Poor" calibration. If this is your factual assesment of the calibration, please can you tell me were the car was running "piss poor"? The point is, if you have made the assesment that our calibration on your car as sub standard or dangerous, you should have no problem explaining why and where. If this where the case, I feel to be honest, you would have told us yourself.
If it is the case you have been told that it is "piss poor" and you are taking that information as gospel and simply throwing it back at me and other members, then I suggest we are not yet at the root of the issue. I cannot let this drop Michael, by casting dispertions in such blatant fashion, and otherwise, is bringing the company and therefore directly our livelyhood into question.
Throughout this thread up until 15/06/2010 you have been over the moon with the car, praising the way it drove and responded, often praising Andy directly. Suddenly this changed. Why? Vehicle calibration is as much mathmatics and physics as it is personal. No two vehicle calibrators will do exactly the same map, peripheral setup etc. They are all different and have their way. It is the nature of the business and we have gone into this area with our eyes wide open.
Having invested heavily in technology, facilities and development I am simply not prepared to have unjustified, uninformed and frankly slanderous comments flung around in the public domain. I have offered to show you all of the evidence that your car left us running the correct AFR, the changes made during the road session, even to explain and demonstrate clearly the effects these changes will make.
If you feel that your car is running better after an alternative mapping session, that is of course your choice and as long as you are happy with the car, surely that is the best result. Coming on here and starting a campaign based on perhaps what you have been told and not what you know is far from a sensible stance.
Sean.
Michael,
I would like you to answer my questions in order to justify your comment of "Piss Poor" calibration. If this is your factual assesment of the calibration, please can you tell me were the car was running "piss poor"? The point is, if you have made the assesment that our calibration on your car as sub standard or dangerous, you should have no problem explaining why and where. If this where the case, I feel to be honest, you would have told us yourself.
If it is the case you have been told that it is "piss poor" and you are taking that information as gospel and simply throwing it back at me and other members, then I suggest we are not yet at the root of the issue. I cannot let this drop Michael, by casting dispertions in such blatant fashion, and otherwise, is bringing the company and therefore directly our livelyhood into question.
Throughout this thread up until 15/06/2010 you have been over the moon with the car, praising the way it drove and responded, often praising Andy directly. Suddenly this changed. Why? Vehicle calibration is as much mathmatics and physics as it is personal. No two vehicle calibrators will do exactly the same map, peripheral setup etc. They are all different and have their way. It is the nature of the business and we have gone into this area with our eyes wide open.
Having invested heavily in technology, facilities and development I am simply not prepared to have unjustified, uninformed and frankly slanderous comments flung around in the public domain. I have offered to show you all of the evidence that your car left us running the correct AFR, the changes made during the road session, even to explain and demonstrate clearly the effects these changes will make.
If you feel that your car is running better after an alternative mapping session, that is of course your choice and as long as you are happy with the car, surely that is the best result. Coming on here and starting a campaign based on perhaps what you have been told and not what you know is far from a sensible stance.
Sean.
Coupe/Defender V8
Re: My Phase 1 ITB Daily Runner
let me put it to you in terms we can all understand, so you can lay this to bed and stop trying to justify everything you've done wrong.
You CONTINUALLY refer to the fact I was happy with the car. How if someone knows no better, would they be able to tell otherwise whilst under the same application? I.E throttle bodies in this instance.
What you are saying is absolutely irrelevant. You failed to show me the amendments as I have in writing that you DO NOT HAVE THEM - yet now you do.
You then ASKED TO SEE my current map to see what exactly had been changed afterwards....which I refused to do as frankly, I don't care now that the car is running a lot better (thanks for asking)
The fact of the matter is - my car left you in a dangerous condition, end of story.
No matter how much you try to extract what understanding I actually have of the situation - you are wrong.
My car left you running 13.8:AFR. You're saying it didn't. - It was not checked on the dyno as it should of been - which I was also told verbally was totally unacceptable yet you're now saying "well you asked"
That all aside - public domain - my personal opinion of the matter is - if you want your f4r mapped, take it somewhere else.
Call it slander if you want, it makes no difference unless you can prove otherwise - and stop changing your story.
And for the record, this is by no means a campaign. I threw no names in, it is you who are antagonising the situation by coming into this thread - and posting a dated graph which proves absolutely nothing.
let me put it to you in terms we can all understand, so you can lay this to bed and stop trying to justify everything you've done wrong.
You CONTINUALLY refer to the fact I was happy with the car. How if someone knows no better, would they be able to tell otherwise whilst under the same application? I.E throttle bodies in this instance.
What you are saying is absolutely irrelevant. You failed to show me the amendments as I have in writing that you DO NOT HAVE THEM - yet now you do.
You then ASKED TO SEE my current map to see what exactly had been changed afterwards....which I refused to do as frankly, I don't care now that the car is running a lot better (thanks for asking)
The fact of the matter is - my car left you in a dangerous condition, end of story.
No matter how much you try to extract what understanding I actually have of the situation - you are wrong.
My car left you running 13.8:AFR. You're saying it didn't. - It was not checked on the dyno as it should of been - which I was also told verbally was totally unacceptable yet you're now saying "well you asked"
That all aside - public domain - my personal opinion of the matter is - if you want your f4r mapped, take it somewhere else.
Call it slander if you want, it makes no difference unless you can prove otherwise - and stop changing your story.
And for the record, this is by no means a campaign. I threw no names in, it is you who are antagonising the situation by coming into this thread - and posting a dated graph which proves absolutely nothing.
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K-Tec Racing
ClioSport Trader
172LBT-172HBT-197-R2
Re: My Phase 1 ITB Daily Runner
Michael,
It isn't as easy as chapter over i'm afraid. The facts are simple and they are as follows:
1. Your vehicle was calibrated using the sausage filter, on the Jenvey Set Up, the the Omex ECU, here on our rolling road. AFR was bang on 13:1 Graphs prove this.
2. You air filter was replaced with more restrictive socks. You were offered the replacement ITG unit, you declined due to the imminent arrival of an airbox.
3. The restrictive socks caused the car to run rich at the low load and partial throttle sites of the map, causing a flat spot of sorts, you asked us to look at this for you.
4. Andy made amendments based on road driving and experience having developed this kit during his time at Omex, which originally included socks. The effects that socks have over the sausage filter are well known to Andy.
5. You took the car away happy with both the changes and the overall drive.
6. The next we hear is via email calling our calibration "piss poor" and generally throwing your toys out of the pram.
7. No explanation, no detailed reasoning, no opportunity for us to understand the problem if indeed there was one.
8. You start badmouthing us, PM'ing other members who have declared interest or have our calibrations to warn them of our "piss poor" calibrations.
9. We have now challenged you as to why.
10. You want to run away.
Did you not think we would react to your claims Michael? Can you not understand the severity of this situation?
Sean.
Michael,
It isn't as easy as chapter over i'm afraid. The facts are simple and they are as follows:
1. Your vehicle was calibrated using the sausage filter, on the Jenvey Set Up, the the Omex ECU, here on our rolling road. AFR was bang on 13:1 Graphs prove this.
2. You air filter was replaced with more restrictive socks. You were offered the replacement ITG unit, you declined due to the imminent arrival of an airbox.
3. The restrictive socks caused the car to run rich at the low load and partial throttle sites of the map, causing a flat spot of sorts, you asked us to look at this for you.
4. Andy made amendments based on road driving and experience having developed this kit during his time at Omex, which originally included socks. The effects that socks have over the sausage filter are well known to Andy.
5. You took the car away happy with both the changes and the overall drive.
6. The next we hear is via email calling our calibration "piss poor" and generally throwing your toys out of the pram.
7. No explanation, no detailed reasoning, no opportunity for us to understand the problem if indeed there was one.
8. You start badmouthing us, PM'ing other members who have declared interest or have our calibrations to warn them of our "piss poor" calibrations.
9. We have now challenged you as to why.
10. You want to run away.
Did you not think we would react to your claims Michael? Can you not understand the severity of this situation?
Sean.
Coupe/Defender V8
Re: My Phase 1 ITB Daily Runner
can you post up the amendments then please lol.
Shaun, the only person that wants to run away is you. I have a graph showing how lean the car was running. You've only provided this thread with a dated graph so far....maybe you should just email me these 'amendments' that you now have magically.
if it stops you from getting political in here.
can you post up the amendments then please lol.
Shaun, the only person that wants to run away is you. I have a graph showing how lean the car was running. You've only provided this thread with a dated graph so far....maybe you should just email me these 'amendments' that you now have magically.
if it stops you from getting political in here.
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K-Tec Racing
ClioSport Trader
172LBT-172HBT-197-R2
Re: My Phase 1 ITB Daily Runner
Certainly Michael, thats no problem.
To clarify you are after the amendments between the original mapping and that from the road changes made with Andy? In an ideal world what format would you like them in?
How will we be able to compare these with the ones on your car at the moment?
Are you requiring the changes to the Fuel map? or ignition as well? (If any were made, I am uncertain, but Andy will know)
Would you like the original logs from the dyno to include AFR? I am pretty sure we can get nearly all the information on one graph, but I will have to check.
I am more than happy to show this information, clearly there will need to be a comparison made. How are your graphs presented and I will see if I can get the dyno to show the same records, to make it easier to identify the changes etc.
Let me know.
Sean.
Certainly Michael, thats no problem.
To clarify you are after the amendments between the original mapping and that from the road changes made with Andy? In an ideal world what format would you like them in?
How will we be able to compare these with the ones on your car at the moment?
Are you requiring the changes to the Fuel map? or ignition as well? (If any were made, I am uncertain, but Andy will know)
Would you like the original logs from the dyno to include AFR? I am pretty sure we can get nearly all the information on one graph, but I will have to check.
I am more than happy to show this information, clearly there will need to be a comparison made. How are your graphs presented and I will see if I can get the dyno to show the same records, to make it easier to identify the changes etc.
Let me know.
Sean.
Coupe/Defender V8
Coupe/Defender V8
Re: My Phase 1 ITB Daily Runner
a full copy of the last calibration when I left you - would be sufficient for now.
a full copy of the last calibration when I left you - would be sufficient for now.
K-Tec Racing
ClioSport Trader
172LBT-172HBT-197-R2
Re: My Phase 1 ITB Daily Runner
Michael,
We cannot send full calibration files, this is common practice. The changes can be seen clearly from the fuel map screen in GWV4, would this be acceptable? You cannot view a map file in its entirity anyway, you were after the changes made I thought?
Perhaps you can screen shot your fuel map table and we can compare them with the same from GWV4? As you know they use nominal figures, so percentage change is what we are looking to compare.
To address your other points:
1. Any changes to the fuel map were below 30% throttle so would not effect WOT runs, therefore the graph is as valid today as it was then.
2. You were offered the filter in person by Bex, here in our reception. We told you were still eligable for a FOC replacement ITG unit, even though you had ripped your old unit off and thrown it in the bin. Remember?
3. You asked us to look at this one area only, on the road or on the dyno, partial throttle is trimmed the same way.
4. We seek to prove it was not left running lean.
5. So you were told the car was dangerous, who by?
6. No comment
7. Surely this is what we are working on right now, sadly in full public view.
8. I wonder why no comment here, we have proof of this Michael, plenty.
9. Again we feel this was not the case and are working to show this
10. Good.
Sean.
Michael,
We cannot send full calibration files, this is common practice. The changes can be seen clearly from the fuel map screen in GWV4, would this be acceptable? You cannot view a map file in its entirity anyway, you were after the changes made I thought?
Perhaps you can screen shot your fuel map table and we can compare them with the same from GWV4? As you know they use nominal figures, so percentage change is what we are looking to compare.
To address your other points:
1. Any changes to the fuel map were below 30% throttle so would not effect WOT runs, therefore the graph is as valid today as it was then.
2. You were offered the filter in person by Bex, here in our reception. We told you were still eligable for a FOC replacement ITG unit, even though you had ripped your old unit off and thrown it in the bin. Remember?
3. You asked us to look at this one area only, on the road or on the dyno, partial throttle is trimmed the same way.
4. We seek to prove it was not left running lean.
5. So you were told the car was dangerous, who by?
6. No comment
7. Surely this is what we are working on right now, sadly in full public view.
8. I wonder why no comment here, we have proof of this Michael, plenty.
9. Again we feel this was not the case and are working to show this
10. Good.
Sean.
Coupe/Defender V8
K-Tec Racing
ClioSport Trader
172LBT-172HBT-197-R2
Re: My Phase 1 ITB Daily Runner
1. We are trying to prove it, do you accept my plan of showing the fuel map screen shot? This surely would be the best option for clear representation?
2. We would not have expected you to pay for it, why would you? It was under warranty, something we have never shyed away from, ever. So you do remember being asked now? Humm we are getting somewhere at least.
3. Repetition is not an answer Michael, we can show it wasn't lean by looking a the top line on our fuel map versus AFR, with and without the changes, it really is that easy, why do you resist?
4. That proves nothing, the figures in the fuel map do the proving, we are trying to do this aren't we?
5. Well if it wasn't your original opinion it must have been someone elses. Surely if you are so certain of their opinion it is no problem to say who?
8. Michael, it is clear from this thread I hope, we are addressing your comments.
9. Refer to point 1.
Sean.
1. We are trying to prove it, do you accept my plan of showing the fuel map screen shot? This surely would be the best option for clear representation?
2. We would not have expected you to pay for it, why would you? It was under warranty, something we have never shyed away from, ever. So you do remember being asked now? Humm we are getting somewhere at least.
3. Repetition is not an answer Michael, we can show it wasn't lean by looking a the top line on our fuel map versus AFR, with and without the changes, it really is that easy, why do you resist?
4. That proves nothing, the figures in the fuel map do the proving, we are trying to do this aren't we?
5. Well if it wasn't your original opinion it must have been someone elses. Surely if you are so certain of their opinion it is no problem to say who?
8. Michael, it is clear from this thread I hope, we are addressing your comments.
9. Refer to point 1.
Sean.
Coupe/Defender V8
Re: My Phase 1 ITB Daily Runner
I think maybe you should stop now - and send me this calibration that you didn't but now do have
if you don't mind
I think maybe you should stop now - and send me this calibration that you didn't but now do have
if you don't mind
K-Tec Racing
ClioSport Trader
172LBT-172HBT-197-R2
Re: My Phase 1 ITB Daily Runner
Michael,
You should have thought about this before you started your crusade. Having looked through the emails, you have mentioned that you have the original calibration that you left here with after your road session with Andy!
With this in mind you should be able to post both fuel map screens from your current map and the one you have a copy of, which is the same calibration you are saying was dangerous and lean.
"I will also aid this by retrieving the cal that was left on there by Andy to compare to the original"
Perhaps you should put us all out of our misery and post these two images. The power to prove it Michael is all in your hands.
I also note from your emails that:
"As a distributor I've had nothing but great service and I truly don't wish to ruin what has been a perfectly decent business relationship up until the mapping fiasco."
And yet you are quite prepared to sculk around behind the scenes discreditting our abilities based on what seems to be only someone else's opinion, to which you have chosen to make your own without appropriate knowledge or understanding.
Sean.
Michael,
You should have thought about this before you started your crusade. Having looked through the emails, you have mentioned that you have the original calibration that you left here with after your road session with Andy!
With this in mind you should be able to post both fuel map screens from your current map and the one you have a copy of, which is the same calibration you are saying was dangerous and lean.
"I will also aid this by retrieving the cal that was left on there by Andy to compare to the original"
Perhaps you should put us all out of our misery and post these two images. The power to prove it Michael is all in your hands.
I also note from your emails that:
"As a distributor I've had nothing but great service and I truly don't wish to ruin what has been a perfectly decent business relationship up until the mapping fiasco."
And yet you are quite prepared to sculk around behind the scenes discreditting our abilities based on what seems to be only someone else's opinion, to which you have chosen to make your own without appropriate knowledge or understanding.
Sean.
Coupe/Defender V8
Re: My Phase 1 ITB Daily Runner
Haven't received it yet
Behind the scenes - just because you still have loyal customers that report everything back to Fort K-tec doesn't qualify as skulking imo
Anyone can offer advice, if they want to take it or not that's their decision.
Haven't received it yet
Behind the scenes - just because you still have loyal customers that report everything back to Fort K-tec doesn't qualify as skulking imo
Anyone can offer advice, if they want to take it or not that's their decision.
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K-Tec Racing
ClioSport Trader
172LBT-172HBT-197-R2
Re: My Phase 1 ITB Daily Runner
What are you waiting for here? You have all the information in your hands, when are you going to post it? When will we see these dramatic changes and lean fuel map figures?
What are you waiting for here? You have all the information in your hands, when are you going to post it? When will we see these dramatic changes and lean fuel map figures?
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