Clio big brake conversions?

[Chip-mk1]

This is a copy of a post from my turbo thread, but I thought it might be interesting to see what other people have done as well now that turbo cars are starting to become more common and hence more people likely to need bigger brakes.

I know Porkie has wilwood calipers on his, and James has got some pretty decent 4 pots, what have other people got and what do they think of it?


My work in progress post about mine:

Well Ive made some decent progress towards getting my big brake conversion onto the car, and ive also fitted some KW Variant 2 front coilovers.

The calipers went off to a friend who is a prototype brakes engineer for goodrich who normally works on WRC cars and the like so probably seemed a bit old school technology to him, lol.
He kindly rebuilt them for me, including cleaning up and regreasing all the pistons, cleaning up the threads and fitting new brake nipples and making some new balance pipes.
Need to give them back to him with one of the old lines so he can make me some new brake pipes and also I need one of the nipple threads helicoiling as one of them didnt clean up well enough just from running a tap down it, hopefully going to get that done later this week but am in the queue behind Msport at the moment so cant really complain too much about the timescales seeing as he's being doing it all
free of charge for me as a thanks for some mapping work I did on his competition pulsar a few years ago, its nice when people remember and payback favours.

Grabbed them back off him again for the week so me and my dad could finish handmaking the adaptor brackets to fit them to my clio turbo, using some drilled and grooved 300mm disks to replace the original 280mm (iirc) ones.



Excuse the fact the pictures show the pass side caliper on the drivers side, was just a case of only had the pass one caliper to hand at the time I was doing that bit as dad was using the other one while finishing off the second bracket and the wheel I had off was the drivers one. They are identical other than the balance pipe and bleed nipples are fitted the other way though so it makes no difference which one goes which side, you can set them up either way just by swapping the bits over, and likewise I know the spacer only had 3 bolts in, was only mocking up, none of these are finished pictures, will hopefully get those later in the week if I get a chance to do some more work on it, although got so many cars to map this week its actually looking like I might end up having to just whack the old brakes back on for combe perhaps.

Coilover and disk bolted up:

Caliper fitted under the wheel to check for clearance:

Closer shots showing just how close it is:

Might need to go for very slightly bigger spacers to get a little more clearance but will see how I get on with it first.

Hoping that it works really well, and the good thing is that although the tarox 6 pot calipers are a load of money the pads and disks themselves that I have used are actually pretty cheap so when they need replacing it will cost me less than a set of HC disks and DS2500 pads does for the mrs RS2 clio, well under 200 quid all in

The pad size is huge, I will have to try and get a picture of one of the new pads compared to one of the old ones to show just how much more contact there is, and hence how I can get away hopefully with running a more "fast road" type pad than needing a race one which should mean they last longer.

 

[Addicted]

Jesus, hope you don't buckle the paper wheels though, that'll be so easy to scrape!

 

[Chip-mk1]

Jesus, hope you don't buckle the paper wheels though, that'll be so easy to scrape!

I wanted the disks as big as possible while still fitting OZ F1, so I did a lot of measuring to design something that was as big as I could ever get under there, and I certainly couldnt have gone any bigger, lol

Ive got some really buckled ones but they always seem to buckle on the outer bit of the rim not on this bit, the pictures perhaps dont show it clearly enough but the bit the caliper is by is at the point the wheels change internal diameter, they have a kind of diagonal in them where it goes from one diameter to another, and its on that bit that the calipers sit.

 

[Jaff.]

Isn't that caliper on upside down...

 

[BoatNonce]

It's the passenger one, only there to check fitment.

 

[Chip-mk1]

Isn't that caliper on upside down...

Its from the other side, as it says in my original post mate:

Excuse the fact the pictures show the pass side caliper on the drivers side, was just a case of only had the pass one caliper to hand at the time I was doing that bit as dad was using the other one while finishing off the second bracket and the wheel I had off was the drivers one. They are identical other than the balance pipe and bleed nipples are fitted the other way though so it makes no difference

The two calipers are the same, only difference is if you configure the bleed nipples and balance pipe for pass or driver, so I can swap them side to side if i just take the balance pipe and bleed nipples off and swap them.

 

[Jaff.]

Yeah I didn't read any of it. I'm simple and preffer to look at pictures

 

[Chip-mk1]

Just for you then Jaff, here it is with the caliper on the correct side of the car, as we've done the other bracket now too:

This is the clearance if I run a 3mm spacer shim between the hubcentric spacer and the wheel:

So I might swap from a 30mm bolt to hub spacer to a 35mm one, but need to wait till I can testdrive it first as it is and see where the tyres sit compared to the wheelarch once Ive set the camber and toe up etc.

 

[Jaff.]

Lol thanks. How do these calipers bolt to the hub then? Like old school brembos or newer calipers

 

[Chip-mk1]

They are lug mount rather than radial if thats what you mean?

 

[Jaff.]

Yeah I got you couldnt think of the correct terms

 

[Alex Conway]

Fingers crossed for no warp/flex in the wheels!

 

[Chip-mk1]

Fingers crossed for no warp/flex in the wheels!

If I run the 3mm spacer shims then they are no closer than other similar conversions Ive made for other cars in the past so I know it will be ok then, but without the spacers its certainly going to be an issue if I get even the tiniest amount of play in the bearings, as I'll obviously then get slight contact, although on the plus side at least I will see witness marks and know that I have an issue, so im kind of viewing that as not too bad a thing anyway.

 

[Alex Conway]

If I run the 3mm spacer shims then they are no closer than other similar conversions Ive made for other cars in the past so I know it will be ok then, but without the spacers its certainly going to be an issue if I get even the tiniest amount of play in the bearings, as I'll obviously then get slight contact, although on the plus side at least I will see witness marks and know that I have an issue, so im kind of viewing that as not too bad a thing anyway.

We've filed the edge of callipers on our uni race cars before, one of our wheels has a nice .2mm groove in it from a bit of interference contact. As you say just monitor it and you'll be fine. I'd probably just put a bit of hight temp paint on edge of the calliper, small blob should do. It will look a bit ugly but then it should let you know if you're getting with .5mm of the wheel. That or a high temp sticker or something similar. Originally we weren't really sure how bad the problem was on our wheels so we put a bit of tape on it, ran them for a few laps and the tape was gone but the wheel had no further damage.

Good luck with the build, looks awesome to see the wheel that filled!

Edit: In what direction do they move the wheel relative to the calliper? Wheel slightly outboard along the axis of rotation or the calliper in radially?

 

[Chip-mk1]

We've filed the edge of callipers on our uni race cars before

I have already filed these calipers anyway on the leading and trailing outside edges, the bit at the top of the caliper that looks like a shiney edge isnt just the light reflecting its ally colour instead of the grey anodising where I have taken the edge off with a power file.

one of our wheels has a nice .2mm groove in it from a bit of interference contact. As you say just monitor it and you'll be fine.

Yeah, im quite interested to see if it will be an issue or not, must confess ive never seen brakes quite THAT close to a wheel before so dont know for certain yet, will just increase load gradually and make sure I keep the spacer shims handy just in case!

I'd probably just put a bit of hight temp paint on edge of the calliper, small blob should do. It will look a bit ugly but then it should let you know if you're getting with .5mm of the wheel. That or a high temp sticker or something similar. Originally we weren't really sure how bad the problem was on our wheels so we put a bit of tape on it, ran them for a few laps and the tape was gone but the wheel had no further damage.

Yeah I had already considered putting a smear of silicon or something on there.

Good luck with the build, looks awesome to see the wheel that filled!

Yeah it certainly works visually, lets just hope it works functionally.

Edit: In what direction do they move the wheel relative to the calliper? Wheel slightly outboard along the axis of rotation or the calliper in radially?

If you mean the spacers, they push the wheel out from the hub.

 

[Ph1 Tom]

Nice work

 

[Alex Conway]

Cracking job! When is your first target outing? Keep us updated as I don't know how the brakes are going to hold out on our turbo, how did you find the standard set up?

 

[Kelv]

Wilwood 4 pots on mine aswell chip, as far as I am led to believe its the exact same kit as Lee's as he too me where to get them from for Kim's Black clio a couple of years back.

 

[_WILL_]

Do you know what the piston area is on these. Compared to the standard parts?

also are you running cooling ducts to them?

 

[Chip-mk1]

Do you know what the piston area is on these. Compared to the standard parts?

also are you running cooling ducts to them?

There wasnt a lot in it area wise TBH mate, as although there are now 6 pistons obviously they only move half as far as on a sliding caliper, so the area of only 3 matters, and they are a lot smaller diameter than the original single one.
Will dig the numbers out again though.

Not running any ducts currently. Just got empty holes where the fog lights were which helps general airflow in that direction, but its not actually ducted specifically at the brakes.

 

[Chip-mk1]

Wilwood 4 pots on mine aswell chip, as far as I am led to believe its the exact same kit as Lee's as he too me where to get them from for Kim's Black clio a couple of years back.

The wilwoods are a pretty good budget option on such a light car, I know our friend rainbird hates the calipers as they arent exactly amazingly well made but on a clio rather than an escos things like that matter far less as they are doing so much less work.

 

[Chip-mk1]

Cracking job! When is your first target outing? Keep us updated as I don't know how the brakes are going to hold out on our turbo, how did you find the standard set up?

Mine was HC disks and pagid blues when on the standard setup, the pads were epic and never faded, but the disks warped badly.

Target outing is saturday if I can get the heliocoil done and pipes made in time and get time to give it a decent shakedown on the road.

 

[Kelv]

The wilwoods are a pretty good budget option on such a light car, I know our friend rainbird hates the calipers as they arent exactly amazingly well made but on a clio rather than an escos things like that matter far less as they are doing so much less work.

That makes perfect sense, I wouldn't dream of putting anything less than a decent set of AP 6 pots on my old Escos.
i think Rainbirds initial pet hate with Wilwoods was from many a year back when they had little centre bracing an you could actually see the caliper flexing.

 

[EVOgone]

Wouldnt want to be that close, one little stone and a big groove in the wheel...........

 

[Chip-mk1]

Wouldnt want to be that close, one little stone and a big groove in the wheel...........

For a rally car like yours that would certainly be a huge problem. Tbh though can't see me getting many stones in and also I really don't care at all about the wheels. They are all just 30-40 quid a corner old ozf1 I use and I've over bought them really as I have about 40. So pretty much I view them as disposable really mate.

 

[MG cup]

This thread prompted me to try an 15" OZ f1 on my 197/225 brembos with 280mm standard disks.

Poor picture but they will work with 30mm spacers.

Same setup with 16" standard 5 spokes.

You need 15mm spacers to work.

​
Same setup with 16" et40 TD pro race 1's.

​You need 10mm spacers to work.

Same setup again with 15" et48.5 wheels (cup racer)

25mm spacers needed to work.

 

[Chip-mk1]

Is there more than 10mm of clearance on the 15" ozf1 when run with the 280mm disks mate? (ie would 300mm like my ones fit on a different bracket?) doesnt look like it TBH but hard to tell in pics.

Id quite like to put some bigger brakes on our RS2 car, even though it doesnt really need them just because I'd sooner have too big brakes and hence them last miles longer and be able to run less agressive pads, but I wouldnt want to have to but another set of Tarox 6 pots to do it, so if I could make a 300mm setup with some scrapyard or cheap calipers it would be ideal.

 

[EVOgone]

Was thinking about the race car i have too as wanting a bigger brake set up than the AP ones on the rallycar....few stones on track from the kitty litter

Will prob go 16/17" wheels though.

 

[Chip-mk1]

Was thinking about the race car i have too as wanting a bigger brake set up than the AP ones on the rallycar....few stones on track from the kitty litter

Will prob go 16/17" wheels though.

TBH with less than a 1mm of clearance there isnt enough room for a lump of gravel to get in there anyway, FLOL.

Much easier if running a bigger wheel, on a 17 you could have 330mm and still have 10mm more clearance than I have.

 

[EVOgone]

TBH with less than a 1mm of clearance there isnt enough room for a lump of gravel to get in there anyway, FLOL.

Much easier if running a bigger wheel, on a 17 you could have 330mm and still have 10mm more clearance than I have.

Go easy on the curbs

 

[Chip-mk1]

Go easy on the curbs

Nah, I love taking a bit of kerb, if it proves a problem I will just have to redesign it, but I still dont think the part of the wheel they are on is likely to buckle anyway, ive got some badly buckled ones here and none of them are a problem at that point, I tried my worst buckled on one to test and it was still clearing ok.

 

[EVOgone]

I have to put any wheel weights on the outside of the wheel on the rallycar as they would catch will have to get some pics up but about 3mm clearance.

 

[plymcl172]

Sure it would be easier to fit 16's again hence bigger brakes right??

 

[Chip-mk1]

Sure it would be easier to fit 16's again hence bigger brakes right??

Not really an option for me, we use the same wheels and tyres on all 3 clios which makes it logistically easier when taking a couple at a time to trackdays and the mk1 hasn't got enough clearance for 16s. So even if I didn't mind the cost of swapping all of them over it still wouldn't work for me really.

​Would sooner just get the disks turned down a few mm and make some new brackets if it came to that.

 

[Andyrg@ ClioTurbo]

Brembo carbon dot 5 fluid motul, with ds2500 pads, with a adjustable bias never ever ever had issues with break fade even on track,

 

[Chip-mk1]

Brembo carbon dot 5 fluid motul, with ds2500 pads, with a adjustable bias never ever ever had issues with break fade even on track.

Same as on my mrs road car. Not upto the job for the turbo though. Even on pagid blues it wasnt.

 

[MG cup]

Is there more than 10mm of clearance on the 15" ozf1 when run with the 280mm disks mate? (ie would 300mm like my ones fit on a different bracket?) doesnt look like it TBH but hard to tell in pics.

Id quite like to put some bigger brakes on our RS2 car, even though it doesnt really need them just because I'd sooner have too big brakes and hence them last miles longer and be able to run less agressive pads, but I wouldnt want to have to but another set of Tarox 6 pots to do it, so if I could make a 300mm setup with some scrapyard or cheap calipers it would be ideal.

In one word....NO. You will never get 300mm disks under 15" wheels with these caliper's same issue as your having with the angled part of the wheel you talk of. Some more room could be made by grinding the edge of the caliper, they are huge caliper's with plenty of meat left which would mean you could then run smaller spacers. From running that setup at the weekend on a trackday with standard brembo pads all round I don't see why you would want 300mm disks. It was only 10 min sessions but never once did it struggle, the initial bite could be improved a bit more with better pads for confidence more than anything as that's what I prefer.

 

[MG cup]

Was thinking about the race car i have too as wanting a bigger brake set up than the AP ones on the rallycar....few stones on track from the kitty litter Will prob go 16/17" wheels though.

There was a set of really nice brakes on pistonheads motorsport parts that were for 17" wheels, 330mm iirc and they weren't selling so bargains could be had.

 

[Chip-mk1]

In one word....NO. You will never get 300mm disks under 15" wheels with these caliper's same issue as your having with the angled part of the wheel you talk of. Some more room could be made by grinding the edge of the caliper, they are huge caliper's with plenty of meat left which would mean you could then run smaller spacers. From running that setup at the weekend on a trackday with standard brembo pads all round I don't see why you would want 300mm disks. It was only 10 min sessions but never once did it struggle, the initial bite could be improved a bit more with better pads for confidence more than anything as that's what I prefer.

Can see why in your case you would feel 300mm is too much, But you don't have 300bhp+, if you did you would have twice as much speed to lose going into a corner, at Combe for example my car and my mrs car go round camp at about 75-80, coming out of the chicane before it we are doing about 50, she gets up to just under 90 and needs just a lift and the slightest touch of the brakes, I need to brake down from well over 100, same story at the end of the straight she's prob doing about 110 to my 130 or so, pretty much every bend we go into I have to lose 20mph more, over the course of a couple laps that is a significant amount more energy to lose.
when you have a slow car on the straights that takes the bends well you don't need brakes much, but keep the same handling and add another 100bhp and it really changes the demands on the brakes.

 

[MG cup]

Oh I know but what I'm saying is 280mm with good pads would be fine IMO, its a Clio not an escos or sierra remember. 300mm for show 280mm if that is all that can be done.