AST review from Oulton

[sideways danny]

i'm just slightly disapointed with their wet performance.

Having driven in the wet, yes it's not as grippy, but in relative terms it's still good. Walked all over lots of E46 M3s in the wet at Snetterton when they'd been a fairly close match in the dry.

 

[badger5]

unless a full setup is known, consistent driver/car, then its always going to be very subjective whats "right" from "not"

 

[ForceIndia]

I won't be happy until I'm passing Enzo's around druids in the pouring rain TBH.

 

[172bagss2]

:lolup:

 

[ForceIndia]

:lolup:

Not funny. I only bought a clio because people on here told me it's the quickest car, like ever. IIRC, I'll need earplugs if I get ITB's, cams etc. Sonic booms is loud.

 

[Icarus]

I won't be happy until I'm passing Enzo's around druids in the pouring rain TBH.

You know thats never going to happen................. Enzo's never come out in the rain

Cheers
M

 

[ForceIndia]

You know thats never going to happen................. Enzo's never come out in the rain

Cheers
M

True. So I do have a chance of lapping quicker!

 

[Barron]

It's on R888s so it doesn't really slide except in the wet. Had it tri-podding round Llandow. Got the rears a lot firmer than you though. Max damping at Llandow, then softened it up by 5 clicks for Snetterton. Definitely needs stiffer springs for track work. The time attack car was easier to provoke into some oversteer but in a very controllable manner

Danny, I now have the AST's from the time attack car. These were re-valved with super stiff rear springs. Did you have a chance to drive it on track? If so what did you think?

Fred if you fancy trying them in the dry, just gimme a shout in spring/summer. Will have them setup aswell as running r888s then

 

[fmp_]

i didnt have enough time in my old car to really explore all the settings.

Car was very neutral and had bags of grip.

Was very hard to over steer on 205 R888, but when it did start to slide it was very progressive and controlable... if awake! lol

As a straight out of the box, easy to fit kit, i think you will struggle to find better.

 

[Englebert]

Where was the understeer happening, entry, mid corner exit? If this is a supercharged 172 then i imagine most setups will result in understeer by the exit...

There are a lot of variables before you just say 'its the springs.'

 

[Lofty27]

Lol, without driving it how can you say!

How was sadlers blue cup running at oulton? Well?

Sadlers ex car was running well but the driver was bottling it under the conditions. Great to see the other Clios ( especially from behind when they went past me like i was standing still. i did check and the handbrake was off!). Looking forward to some more trackdays at Oulton next year.

I will check out this site before I go next time. It was also me in the big yellow truck so if you get stuck for airline, vice, nuts, bolts, gaffer tape etc next time out just ask.

 

[Sir_Dave]

In addition, different drivers prefer different setups. IIRC correctly when my housemate drove in the Seat Cupra Championship his suspension was set up totally differently to his team mates as they prefered diff handling characteristics ...

So surely Fred's preference may be different to Warren's/Englebert's/FMP's, etc. So by letting Fred drive your car Warren, how is that helping with the setup of your car, its yours, not his .... ?

 

[ForceIndia]

In addition, different drivers prefer different setups. IIRC correctly when my housemate drove in the Seat Cupra Championship his suspension was set up totally differently to his team mates as they prefered diff handling characteristics ...

So surely Fred's preference may be different to Warren's/Englebert's/FMP's, etc. So by letting Fred drive your car Warren, how is that helping with the setup of your car, its yours, not his .... ?

He wasn't driving it to assess set-up. I was on the track day, Fred came along and showed me how to drive .

 

[Dan R]

In addition, different drivers prefer different setups. IIRC correctly when my housemate drove in the Seat Cupra Championship his suspension was set up totally differently to his team mates as they prefered diff handling characteristics ...

So surely Fred's preference may be different to Warren's/Englebert's/FMP's, etc. So by letting Fred drive your car Warren, how is that helping with the setup of your car, its yours, not his .... ?

You took the words right out of my mouth mate. Thankyou
Thats why im not getting involved in this thread. Its all opinionated!! If you dont like someones setup then so what. It aint your car. If the lad who owns the car likes it then thats it. I like my car and my setup.
Im not fussed what other people think of it tbh.

 

[Sir_Dave]

Glad i brought some sensibility to the topic Dan

He wasn't driving it to assess set-up. I was on the track day, Fred came along and showed me how to drive .

lol, i did that when i went to the 'ring last year, except i was passenger in my race driving chums 400bhp Evo 8 - i nearly cried he can certainly:race:, i almost needed to change my pants tbh ..

 

[Englebert]

This is true, driving style has a huge impact. The Stig 'wrecked' my NSX's setup after advising some changes! I just changed it back to how it was...

But to continue on from what i was saying, ride heigh and geometry will change things too. No one seems to have uprated ARBs for the Clios either, which is strange.

Personally i have no worries with an understeering car as long at isn't terminal everywhere, cheapest thing to do is learn how to left foot brake.

 

[Dan R]

This is true, driving style has a huge impact. The Stig 'wrecked' my NSX's setup after advising some changes! I just changed it back to how it was...

But to continue on from what i was saying, ride heigh and geometry will change things too. No one seems to have uprated ARBs for the Clios either, which is strange.

Personally i have no worries with an understeering car as long at isn't terminal everywhere, cheapest thing to do is learn how to left foot brake.

Id like to do antiroll bars on my car but i will only try both. Ive heard the rear one is not worth it and as far as im aware noone does a front. I only want them for track use to get rid of or reduce the initial roll u get from turnin into a corner hard at speed. Not sure whether they will work and wether it will just ruin the car. 9 times out of ten it does ruin the car

 

[ForceIndia]

Id like to do antiroll bars on my car but i will only try both. Ive heard the rear one is not worth it and as far as im aware noone does a front. I only want them for track use to get rid of or reduce the initial roll u get from turnin into a corner hard at speed. Not sure whether they will work and wether it will just ruin the car. 9 times out of ten it does.

I thought that on a stiff car, a front ARB would promote understeer? Without the roll (and weight transfer) you'd get less grip on the outside tyre.

 

[Dan R]

I thought that on a stiff car, a front ARB would promote understeer? Without the roll (and weight transfer) you'd get less grip on the outside tyre.

Yes your right but doing both front and rear may overcome that problem. Its trial and error tbh. I doubt it would work and if it did it would probably only work on track. But seen as noone makes a set i probably wont be trying it.

Going back to this roll issue... this is exactly why i opted with curtis to try the stiffer spring setup.
I cant stand a car that rolls around when really pushing it on track. I found this when i was at the nurburgring this year and also at cadwell park. The stiffer springs got rid of almost all the rolly aroundness of the car.
The stiff setup would be crap in the wet as it appears Fred found out which i already knew.
In the wet the car needs to be much, much softer.

 

[r8byb]

I'm going to experiment later and report back, current settings are 1 front and 4 rear, going to keep upping the rear 2 clicks and see what characteristics change on the same bit of road.. Will report back, lets just hope it rains

 

[ForceIndia]

Yes your right but doing both front and rear may overcome that problem. Its trial and error tbh. I doubt it would work and if it did it would probably only work on track. But seen as noone makes a set i probably wont be trying it.

Going back to this roll issue... this is exactly why i opted with curtis to try the stiffer spring setup.
I cant stand a car that rolls around when really pushing it on track. I found this when i was at the nurburgring this year and also at cadwell park. The stiffer springs got rid of almost all the rolly aroundness of the car.
The stiff setup would be crap in the wet as it appears Fred found out which i already knew.
In the wet the car needs to be much, much softer.

If the spread of adjustment was a bit wider, they'd be perfect in all conditions. I'm happy with them, but I'd be happy with the H&R's as well. Might get chance to drive a pss9'd car, that'll be interesting.

 

[Dan R]

If the spread of adjustment was a bit wider, they'd be perfect in all conditions. I'm happy with them, but I'd be happy with the H&R's as well. Might get chance to drive a pss9'd car, that'll be interesting.

Everybody ive ever known with pss9's has said they are way too hard and brutal for road use. Having said that they were all on imprezas lol so no idea on a clio. Testing and trying other maufacturers and setups etc etc in my eyes can be a very dangerous thing. Youll just end up getting your thoughts all confused and end up no further forward! I know AST are a good company and have had many many years of experience which is why im just sticking to what ive got and the setup i have until i can afford to buy a proper car. (M3 CSL).
Thats got nothing to do with this thread i know but im only be honest LOL.

 

[ForceIndia]

Everybody ive ever known with pss9's has said they are way too hard and brutal for road use. Having said that they were all on imprezas lol so no idea on a clio. Testing and trying other maufacturers and setups etc etc in my eyes can be a very dangerous thing. Youll just end up getting your thoughts all confused and end up no further forward! I know AST are a good company and have had many many years of experience which is why im just sticking to what ive got and the setup i have until i can afford to buy a proper car. (M3 CSL).
Thats got nothing to do with this thread i know but im only be honest LOL.

The clio pss9's were set-up specifically for the clio, 4k of track testing from what I've read. Been told they go from as soft as standard to rock hard, but won't know until I try!
I'm more than happy to try as many set-ups as possible, otherwise I'd probably be running around on GAZ's, happy as larry

 

[Barron]

warren no offence here but wouldnt it be better to do more track days and learning on what you have got rather than spending more £££ on suspension, just because someone who doesnt own your car doesnt like them?

carl

 

[Dan R]

warren no offence here but wouldnt it be better to do more track days and learning on what you have got rather than spending more £££ on suspension, just because someone who doesnt own your car doesnt like them?

carl

Enough said! Youve hit the nail on the head there mate. My thoughts exactly!! I couldnt give a flying f**k what someone thinks of my car and the way it drives. I like it and thats all that matters. Im sure your car drives brilliantly. You only think it doesnt cos someones told u they dont like it.

 

[Dan R]

The clio pss9's were set-up specifically for the clio, 4k of track testing from what I've read. Been told they go from as soft as standard to rock hard, but won't know until I try!
I'm more than happy to try as many set-ups as possible, otherwise I'd probably be running around on GAZ's, happy as larry

What the hell has soft to rock hard got to do with anything. Thats the language of someone who doesnt know alot about suspension. Dont take that as an offence tho. Just accept what uve got. Its not sh*t at all in any way. Just drive the bloody thing

 

[ForceIndia]

FFS, you guys are laughable. I said I'm going to possibly try a car with Billies on, not to buy them. Please, show me where it says I'm going to buy them? Just ignore the post above where it says I'm perfectly happy with them. Just because I want to drive as many set-ups as possible, so I can give a balanced opinion on whats available, rather than just bloody bleating on about AST all the time!
Please Dan, show me where I've said I don't like them? If you've read my previous comments on the AST's, and I know you have as you've replied in many of them, you'll see I've had issues with the AST's from early on. Not major issues, but then no set up can be perfect. As it is, since I had the set up altered the way I wanted, I'm more than happy with them.

 

[ForceIndia]

What the hell has soft to rock hard got to do with anything. Thats the language of someone who doesnt know alot about suspension. Dont take that as an offence tho. Just accept what uve got. Its not sh*t at all in any way. Just drive the bloody thing

Where have I said they are s**t? Tool.

 

[fad]

Very interesting read guys some pretty biased views too.

Drawing from the info guru's in this thread I'm looking for a road friendly kit that tollerable for my comute to work (I do 30k a year now) and somthing great for when ever I go to the Ring and Brands and by the sounds of it the H&R's are pretty good.

Although I am getting a bit of pier pressure from Broster and Rob to get the AST's lol!

 

[Dan R]

FFS, you guys are laughable. I said I'm going to possibly try a car with Billies on, not to buy them. Please, show me where it says I'm going to buy them? Just ignore the post above where it says I'm perfectly happy with them. Just because I want to drive as many set-ups as possible, so I can give a balanced opinion on whats available, rather than just bloody bleating on about AST all the time!
Please Dan, show me where I've said I don't like them? If you've read my previous comments on the AST's, and I know you have as you've replied in many of them, you'll see I've had issues with the AST's from early on. Not major issues, but then no set up can be perfect. As it is, since I had the set up altered the way I wanted, I'm more than happy with them.

All you do is question what uve got constantly. Sounds like your trying to achieve something that a clio simply isnt going to give u in my eyes. Buy an R26!!!

 

[Dan R]

Where have I said they are s**t? Tool.

You havent said it but thats the way its coming across!! Sorry but it is.

 

[r8byb]

I still go by the fact that ive owned H&R's for 2000+miles and AST's for 1000+ miles and that the AST's are miles better wet and dry.

 

[ForceIndia]

I still go by the fact that ive owned H&R's for 2000+miles and AST's for 1000+ miles and that the AST's are miles better wet and dry.

Have you tried changing the rears? Be interested to see what you think. Would have a play with mine, but can't use it at the moment:dead:.

 

[r8byb]

Nope, seeing the mrs tonight but tomorrow i shall .

 

[ForceIndia]

I miss mine lol!

 

[Fred@BTM]

AST's aren't s**t, i'm not saying that FFS! i'm just saying IN MY OPINION they need the abilty to go softer than they already do, then they will be perfect

the end

 

[drhowser]

What the hell has soft to rock hard got to do with anything. Thats the language of someone who doesnt know alot about suspension. Dont take that as an offence tho. Just accept what uve got. Its not sh*t at all in any way. Just drive the bloody thing

i'd imagine that in laymans terms, soft to rock hard would translate into "a greater range of adjustment"

this is good because you can use a greater range of springs without having to send your dampers off to be re-valved.

 

[Fred@BTM]

^5 gold stars to that man

 

[Fred@BTM]

AST's aren't s**t, i'm not saying that FFS! i'm just saying IN MY OPINION they need the abilty to go softer than they already do, then they will be perfect

the end

2 and a bit years later, i still say the same thing, setup another AST'd 182 recently, rear end was good, but the front was still not right IMO

 

[bozothenutter]

still the same problem?
i'm asking cause I made an enquiry to AST here in Holland about topmounts and using them with Bilstein B14's.
But the AST kit looks nice to, and maybe I can talk him down to Bilstein prices.

from the thread I gather the front springs are too stiff, what are the rates now, and what would you reccomend?