AST review from Oulton

[Fred@BTM]

note this was on a wet track

first things first, when fitting the brakes to warren's car the night before power station had installed the lower shock bolts the wrong way round, nothing major, but i'm a picky fucker!

i had a sneaky go on the road and thought the ride was great, but when pushing on it was starting to understeer, and that was with the damping on the front end on min! (15clicks is max)

on track, not bad, again the whole day was done with the front end on min, the back end was great could've done with going a wee tad firmer though

the car just couldn't put any power down out of corners, track was slippery as hell anyway, but the front end was just too stiff for those conditions, i reckon with softer springs that setup would be spot on.

a car fitted with a softer suspension would've gone round much quicker IMO

i dread to think what that car is like with damping set to max all round!

i look forward to trying it out in the dry on track, but i'll have to wait a while

 

[ForceIndia]

There's a fella on cliotrophy, used to be a suspension engineer in motorsport. He's been chatting with AST, about a set up for his dc5. Thinks there springs are about 30% too stiff on all there kits.
Was very tricky getting the power down, I could see what you meant about going a lil softer. Balance was ok for me, but I'm not going to pretend I'd be happy with a more lively back end on a wet track!

 

[broster@JAM-Sport]

which springs were you using? they do two setups IIRC, a softer spring for spirited road use and the harder spring for track

 

[ForceIndia]

The softer set-up.

 

[Fred@BTM]

^which is too hard IMO

some people might like it, but i didn't, i like clio's to have a soft front end and a stiff rear, but that suits my driving, it'll be different for other people

 

[broster@JAM-Sport]

i have just purchased the ast kit with both spring setups to see what will work best on track or road, id imagine you'd need quite a soft setup for a damp track, rob (r8byb i think) has the firmer setup setup by curtis and swares buy it over his h&r's

 

[Fred@BTM]

if i'm honest i prefer H&R's or KW's

 

[ForceIndia]

Rob has the softer kit. As said, everyone will have thier own opinion, but the front was too stiff for yesterday. Be good to see how it goes in the dry, as both tracks I've done with them have been wet/damp.
Regarding the stiff set-up, it is too stiff. IIRC Dan is having his AST's rebuilt, so the dampers can cope better with the harder springs.
One thing I didn't ask Fred, how do they compare on track with the other kits you've used (KW, H&R, Billies etc)? Doh, already answered.

 

[drhowser]

have you used the competiton stuff from kw fred?

 

[broster@JAM-Sport]

my mistake sorry thought he had the harder. and i agree personal preference plays a big part in suspension.

out of interest what tyres do you use in the wet?

 

[ForceIndia]

my mistake sorry thought he had the harder. and i agree personal preference plays a big part in suspension.

out of interest what tyres do you use in the wet?

Was on F1's, left the 888's at home.

 

[Fred@BTM]

"if" the car had had 205/50 15's on i reckon it would've worked better, i was struggling to chuck the thing sideways, the front end just wouldn't bite

never used the KW comp stuff, but i've done quite a few KW, H&R, Bilstein cars in my time, Spa, the ring, brands, donny, oulton, i prefer the german stuff!

 

[broster@JAM-Sport]

Bilstein takes alot of beating IMO, shame they dont have a pss9 kit for the 1*2 the pss is good just lacks that extra control, really impressed with the pss9 on my corsa

 

[drhowser]

i'd agree with that too fred, just seems more fluid if that makes sense.

i'll let you have a go once it is all finished

 

[Fred@BTM]

sweet

 

[Peperami]

Aww you'd have loved the old set-up i had on leda's fred, shame you didnt get to drive it!

(might have changed your mind on them )

 

[Fred@BTM]

^they'll always be crap in my eye's!!!

 

[Peperami]

Lol, without driving it how can you say!

How was sadlers blue cup running at oulton? Well?

 

[Fred@BTM]

who?

 

[MistaT]

A wet setup will be totally different to a dry one, so you can't judge it whatsoever.

And how can you tell that the softest damping setting on the front was ideal? Underdamping will decrease grip, perhaps you could have tried putting it up a few clicks at a time to see how it affected it.

 

[r8byb]

mine is on 4 F 4 R clicks wise and the turn in is immense wet or dry, very minimal understeer and progressive oversteer on call..

tyre pressures etc all ok ?


PS there miles and miles better than my H&Rs were in terms of going fast

 

[ForceIndia]

mine is on 4 F 4 R clicks wise and the turn in is immense wet or dry, very minimal understeer and progressive oversteer on call..

tyre pressures etc all ok ?


PS there miles and miles better than my H&Rs were in terms of going fast

Fred gave them a fair go fella, and he's probably quicker than most on here. The only car braking later than him was the 197cup racer. They don't feel that stiff until you have a direct comparison, but getting the power down was difficult, the softer set up were able to get more power down (ie the 306gti's were pulling away slightly on the exit of corners, but then I was past by the next corner.)

 

[r8byb]

Cant you stiffen the rear up more ?

 

[ForceIndia]

I think it's the springs rather than the damping. The rears already on 4 clicks.

 

[Barron]

what spring rates do you run warren?

we have 450 F 750 R but ours have been re-valved to cope.

(were fitted on FMP's time attack car)

 

[r8byb]

mines on 32 psi all round, 4 clicks rear 1 click front now, feels rather good .

 

[RichCup]

Bilstein takes alot of beating IMO, shame they dont have a pss9 kit for the 1*2 the pss is good just lacks that extra control, really impressed with the pss9 on my corsa

Yozza do the PSS9 kit, 1600 quid tho!

I've got the PSS kit which I'm more than happy with. They're spot on for the road but I think I'd want it a bit stiffer for track use.

AST's do seem good for the money tho! Especially with H&R prices as they are (altho I don't see why nearly everyone chooses the H&R's over the billies).

 

[MistaT]

H&Rs use bilstein dampers anyway, just with H&Rs spec of spring and valving.

 

[RichCup]

Exactly, IIRC they're pretty much the same except the bilsteins are slightly stiffer. Even then why would you pay the extra £150 - £200 for the H&Rs :S

 

[SBV116]

^which is too hard IMO

some people might like it, but i didn't, i like clio's to have a soft front end and a stiff rear, but that suits my driving, it'll be different for other people

Why did i chuckle to myself?:S I need to give my head a wobble!! Sorry Fred!

 

[ForceIndia]

mines on 32 psi all round, 4 clicks rear 1 click front now, feels rather good .

Pretty much what i'm on. I hate fred. Now i notice that the front doesn't dig in. Not changing springs until i've been on a dry track.

 

[Fred@BTM]

A wet setup will be totally different to a dry one, so you can't judge it whatsoever.

And how can you tell that the softest damping setting on the front was ideal? Underdamping will decrease grip, perhaps you could have tried putting it up a few clicks at a time to see how it affected it.

dry they'd be fine, just i didn't like them so much in the wet, they need the ability to go softer out the box, but that's my opinion, and i've driven and setup a lot of clio's in my time and i know what i like

 

[riz]

Just gone for a drive in Warren's now supercharged tank.
Def alot of understeer compared to the H&R's in ze wet. Still flappin awesome tho' seem to just hug the road all the time.

 

[ForceIndia]

Just gone for a drive in Warren's now supercharged tank.
Def alot of understeer compared to the H&R's in ze wet. Still flappin awesome tho' seem to just hug the road all the time.

Thats because you've got a clubbed right foot. They will understeer, but they are more responsive than the H&R's, you turn, the car goes immediately. On the H&R's there's a slight delay as they settle. In the dry, I'm confident they'll be the better bet (for me). What also makes it hard to compare, is Riz's need setting up (majorly pulling to the left), and he's running 205's, I'm on 195's.
OT, but ph1's feel so different to ph2's. Would never of thought that the throttle response would be so different. The ph1 feels stronger mid-range, but doesn't have a noticeable 5k kick, whereas the ph2 feels a bit weak mid-range, then just takes off at 5k.

 

[ForceIndia]

Just gone for a drive in Warren's now supercharged tank.
Def alot of understeer compared to the H&R's in ze wet. Still flappin awesome tho' seem to just hug the road all the time.

Go f**k yourself!

 

[riz]

Go f**k yourself!

ok tad of understeer, but your car still sounds supercharged

 

[Ali]

Too hard for me son!!

 

[ForceIndia]

Too hard for me son!!

You've not been in them since the springs were changed. The ride's spot on now.

 

[r8byb]

Stiffer rear springs not another option... mine doesnt feel much stiffer than H&rs on the lowest setting.

 

[homer simpson]

Bilstein takes alot of beating IMO, shame they dont have a pss9 kit for the 1*2 the pss is good just lacks that extra control, really impressed with the pss9 on my corsa

you can do but they are not cheep and you can only get them from yozzasport