This is a lovely utopian theory. Yes, when you're coming up on Paddock Hill bend, you'll be all set to feather and modulate your pedals just so, and chip away at that lap time.
But in the 99% of your driving, when you're just thinking about what to get in for dinner, you're just ambling along from A to B.. Are you going to get specific on your brake pedal when that cyclist pulls out on you out of nowhere (without looking, and probably with no lights, bellends).
So whilst the ambulance is mopping up Little Jimmy's giblets from your grille and the floor, are you still going to be singing the praises of your super-cool track-focused braking? No, no, you're going to be going in front of a judge who, most likely, isn't going to share your opinion.
Yes, this is an extreme exaggeration of the point, and in many cases if you lock-up in a Clio you'll have to have tried pretty hard to do so. Hell, I can't think of more than a few times I triggered ABS in my 172 in the 5 years I had it, and most of those would have been in snow or similar. But the point remains that these things exist to stop you wiping out not just your front bumper and rad, but people just going about their day around you.
And yes, I fully expect the CS bigman wave to come back telling me how they are better than Bottas
No apology needed fella.I suppose thats why I said "If you are used to it and can overcome the natural reaction to mash the brake pedal ..etc". I meant it in the sense that stopping in a shorter time without abs is achievable, not that one should disconnect an abs system, if your car is so equipped, in order to stop faster.
Apologies if that wasnt clear.
Agree totally and that is what I meant to say.No apology needed fella.
This is it, people CAN, sometimes, do a better job than ABS.
Just that in most instances, they can't. It's just the same willy-waving and "my sik modz" attitude that leaves cars shiny-side down in ditches every day.
My 4.2l s4 costs £10 more to fuel per week than the 197 and will use the same fuel on a long run.How much difference are they on MPG to the 172Cup?.
And when a C6 Corvette does better MPG's than an S4, it starts to make an LS-powered freedom-machine better value than a 4-banger french hatchMy 4.2l s4 costs £10 more to fuel per week than the 197 and will use the same fuel on a long run.
Soooo, they’re pretty bad
Yes!!! As a fellow old man/fist shaker I recognise the truth when I trip over it and then promptly forget where I put it. I always viewed driving as a skill that I wanted to improve to the extent I could. I've been on nearly 20 of Andy Walsh's car limits days over the years and loads of trackdays (when i was younger, had time, could afford it and had better bladder control). My thoughts were always that I wanted to practice but in a safe environment. Thats where I learnt about manual brake modulation over abs for instance. But, having the presence of mind to apply what youve learnt, in the split second its required, is what matters and so this preachy old fart reckons the real skill is to minimise the likelihood of it going wrong on the road by not driving like a plonker in the first place. What's that nurse? Time for my medication and a snooze? lovely...One of the main issues with ABS is that 'normal people' (i.e. your mum / old Doris round the corner / 18 year olds driving £500/month lease 'german whips' because 'lifestyle') who are not into cars or driving properly have no idea how ABS works, don't expect it when it does kick in, and then either fail to use the ABS to steer round what they're trying to avoid or lift off the brake pedal because they are scared something is breaking/broken.
Well, that is if they get ABS to even kick in... Most of the above people have no idea just how hard they can actually brake, which is why (from the few 'newer' cars I've driven) many (most?) cars nowadays seem to have that extremely irritating 'auto-braking' thing, where the braking effort is increased by the ECU while you leave your foot in the same position - I presume because Doris etc. is incapable of pressing the pedal with enough force.
ABS or no ABS, people crash into things because they have no idea what to do in an 'emergency' (the vast majority of which could/should be avoided with proper attention and anticipation), have no appreciation of grip levels and car control (and therefore what their car does and can actually do), and have no interest in actually developing and improving what is an important skill - they passed their driving test X years ago and don't speed, so that means they are safe drivers, doesn't it?? And the car has collision avoidance / automatic cruise control / lanekeeping assist / ABS / EBC / ESP / ABCXYZ so they don't really need to pay attention, do they??
Any car can be driven safely or dangerously, regardless of what kit it has or hasn't got on it - the failure of most people to appreciate and understand this, and adapt their driving to suit the car/conditions/road environment, means they will continue to be surprised when they spear off into the undergrowth or destroy a(nother) car...
[/old man rant]
[/shaking fist at cloud]
I’ve went from a 133 to eventually a 197 and would not go back, 133 did not have enough for me in regards to power after a corner, and the handling different between the two was marginal at best, 197/200 is a much nicer car to be inside as a 133 feels almost budget spec compared to. 197/200hmm..now started to wonder about a twingo 133...maybe that makes even more sense as a bonkers car for in town..
Having owned both (at the same time), I completely agree with this!!Ive owned both. I had a Storm grey 200 Cup with Recaros and speedlines and i currently drive a 172 Cup.
The 200 felt like a more special car to drive, the quick rack was great! brakes, incredible, handling was in a different league compared to the 172. You would have to be driving on meth to find the limits of grip on the road. Downsides of the 200 are the MPG which was almost always in the 20's, could get in the 30's on the motorway. The suspension was crazy firm at normal driving speed (awesome at full tilt) lastly it just felt like it could handle another 100hp.
My 172 Cup feels quicker to 60 im guessing it being 200kg lighter helps. Much easier to find the limits of grip which makes it feel more fun. MPG for the 172 is around 40. I run 15inch wheels so tyres are cheap. I cant think of a better car for the money i'd much rather own a 172 Cup over a 200 Cup.
it's epas but it's good! I never saw it as a negative, my Mrs has a mk4 clip with the same epas your talking about and the epas in my mk4 220 feels like a different car, it's all in the setup/calibrationIs the 200 EPAS or HPAS? I've coincidentally got a poverty spec mk4 Clio as a rental car at the moment, it has EPAS and I hate it, same as I hate EPAS in all modern cars. Hydraulic steering is just so much better in the 182 I have at home.
Exactly the same here. Had the r26 2 years and it was great. I've had my 172 cup 16 years.It's not quite the same but I moved from a 172 cup to a R26 megane and i couldn't fault the R26 such a nicer place to be sat and do decent journey in , with a few small mods they are a rapid machine and grip so well.
Thankfully though i kept the cup and I have now sold the R26, I'm not sure if it was the weight difference or just how well the R26 did fast but it felt numb compared to the cup.
After i sold the meg i jumped in the clio the other week and went for a sunday morning blast and at first i thought what have i done , rattly interior basic and just starting to looked feel its age inside, but once i got it out on some of my favourite roads i was glad i made the choice to keep the old girl.
RIP me with my AG on 117kYeah that’s essentially what you have to do with them mate. Keep them going to the gearchange bleep and change. They don’t feel as urgent as a 172, but that’s because they’re a more refined car in Clio terms.
I’ve got an AG200 with all the desirable bits on it, so Recaros and speedlines. It’s one of 55 AG’s to come out of the factory and 1 of only 2 that came from the factory with a black roof. Does that mean it’ll be more desirable in the future because it’s also low miles (49k) - god knows. Unfortunately I don’t think I’ll have it long enough to find out if this would be the case.
EP3 was one of the biggest disappointments for me, the steering was atrocious, I couldn't feel what was going on under me!I found mine to be dull as dishwasher in terms of feedback. Two previous cars were a teg dc2 and a 172 cup. So maybe coming off the back of those two I was expecting too much. I assume the 200 has a better feel to the eps system?