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172cup vs 200cup

scalino65

ClioSport Club Member
#82
This is a lovely utopian theory. Yes, when you're coming up on Paddock Hill bend, you'll be all set to feather and modulate your pedals just so, and chip away at that lap time.

But in the 99% of your driving, when you're just thinking about what to get in for dinner, you're just ambling along from A to B.. Are you going to get specific on your brake pedal when that cyclist pulls out on you out of nowhere (without looking, and probably with no lights, bellends).

So whilst the ambulance is mopping up Little Jimmy's giblets from your grille and the floor, are you still going to be singing the praises of your super-cool track-focused braking? No, no, you're going to be going in front of a judge who, most likely, isn't going to share your opinion.

Yes, this is an extreme exaggeration of the point, and in many cases if you lock-up in a Clio you'll have to have tried pretty hard to do so. Hell, I can't think of more than a few times I triggered ABS in my 172 in the 5 years I had it, and most of those would have been in snow or similar. But the point remains that these things exist to stop you wiping out not just your front bumper and rad, but people just going about their day around you.

And yes, I fully expect the CS bigman wave to come back telling me how they are better than Bottas

I suppose thats why I said "If you are used to it and can overcome the natural reaction to mash the brake pedal ..etc". I meant it in the sense that stopping in a shorter time without abs is achievable, not that one should disconnect an abs system, if your car is so equipped, in order to stop faster.
Apologies if that wasnt clear.
 
  Listerine & Poledo
#84
I suppose thats why I said "If you are used to it and can overcome the natural reaction to mash the brake pedal ..etc". I meant it in the sense that stopping in a shorter time without abs is achievable, not that one should disconnect an abs system, if your car is so equipped, in order to stop faster.
Apologies if that wasnt clear.
No apology needed fella.

This is it, people CAN, sometimes, do a better job than ABS.
Just that in most instances, they can't. It's just the same willy-waving and "my sik modz" attitude that leaves cars shiny-side down in ditches every day.
 

cat171

ClioSport Club Member
#85
My point was that they say scary like they drive round all day in a car with the ABS permanently kicking in (that's genuinely how it appears) Then they start crying that the cup doesn't have it and they might die.
Why do people buy them knowing it hasn't got it ? If they are that bad, why not sell up ?
The people who say it make no sense at all.
 

scalino65

ClioSport Club Member
#86
No apology needed fella.

This is it, people CAN, sometimes, do a better job than ABS.
Just that in most instances, they can't. It's just the same willy-waving and "my sik modz" attitude that leaves cars shiny-side down in ditches every day.
Agree totally and that is what I meant to say.👍
 
#87
One of the main issues with ABS is that 'normal people' (i.e. your mum / old Doris round the corner / 18 year olds driving £500/month lease 'german whips' because 'lifestyle') who are not into cars or driving properly have no idea how ABS works, don't expect it when it does kick in, and then either fail to use the ABS to steer round what they're trying to avoid or lift off the brake pedal because they are scared something is breaking/broken.

Well, that is if they get ABS to even kick in... Most of the above people have no idea just how hard they can actually brake, which is why (from the few 'newer' cars I've driven) many (most?) cars nowadays seem to have that extremely irritating 'auto-braking' thing, where the braking effort is increased by the ECU while you leave your foot in the same position - I presume because Doris etc. is incapable of pressing the pedal with enough force.

ABS or no ABS, people crash into things because they have no idea what to do in an 'emergency' (the vast majority of which could/should be avoided with proper attention and anticipation), have no appreciation of grip levels and car control (and therefore what their car does and can actually do), and have no interest in actually developing and improving what is an important skill - they passed their driving test X years ago and don't speed, so that means they are safe drivers, doesn't it?? And the car has collision avoidance / automatic cruise control / lanekeeping assist / ABS / EBC / ESP / ABCXYZ so they don't really need to pay attention, do they?? :rolleyes:

Any car can be driven safely or dangerously, regardless of what kit it has or hasn't got on it - the failure of most people to appreciate and understand this, and adapt their driving to suit the car/conditions/road environment, means they will continue to be surprised when they spear off into the undergrowth or destroy a(nother) car...


[/old man rant]

[/shaking fist at cloud]
 

imprezaworks

ClioSport Club Member
  No car. To speak of.
#89
The r26 are imo harder to find. But they will hold their value better.

The R would be the faster car but i think the 200 looks way nicer. Personally id try which ever popped up first.
 
#91
How much difference are they on MPG to the 172Cup?.
My 4.2l s4 costs £10 more to fuel per week than the 197 and will use the same fuel on a long run.

Soooo, they’re pretty bad

I’d suggest the 200 though. I’ve not properly driven a 1*2 but the brakes and cornering composure of the mk3s when on the boil is incredible.
 

scalino65

ClioSport Club Member
#93
One of the main issues with ABS is that 'normal people' (i.e. your mum / old Doris round the corner / 18 year olds driving £500/month lease 'german whips' because 'lifestyle') who are not into cars or driving properly have no idea how ABS works, don't expect it when it does kick in, and then either fail to use the ABS to steer round what they're trying to avoid or lift off the brake pedal because they are scared something is breaking/broken.

Well, that is if they get ABS to even kick in... Most of the above people have no idea just how hard they can actually brake, which is why (from the few 'newer' cars I've driven) many (most?) cars nowadays seem to have that extremely irritating 'auto-braking' thing, where the braking effort is increased by the ECU while you leave your foot in the same position - I presume because Doris etc. is incapable of pressing the pedal with enough force.

ABS or no ABS, people crash into things because they have no idea what to do in an 'emergency' (the vast majority of which could/should be avoided with proper attention and anticipation), have no appreciation of grip levels and car control (and therefore what their car does and can actually do), and have no interest in actually developing and improving what is an important skill - they passed their driving test X years ago and don't speed, so that means they are safe drivers, doesn't it?? And the car has collision avoidance / automatic cruise control / lanekeeping assist / ABS / EBC / ESP / ABCXYZ so they don't really need to pay attention, do they?? :rolleyes:

Any car can be driven safely or dangerously, regardless of what kit it has or hasn't got on it - the failure of most people to appreciate and understand this, and adapt their driving to suit the car/conditions/road environment, means they will continue to be surprised when they spear off into the undergrowth or destroy a(nother) car...


[/old man rant]

[/shaking fist at cloud]
Yes!!! As a fellow old man/fist shaker I recognise the truth when I trip over it and then promptly forget where I put it. I always viewed driving as a skill that I wanted to improve to the extent I could. I've been on nearly 20 of Andy Walsh's car limits days over the years and loads of trackdays (when i was younger, had time, could afford it and had better bladder control). My thoughts were always that I wanted to practice but in a safe environment. Thats where I learnt about manual brake modulation over abs for instance. But, having the presence of mind to apply what youve learnt, in the split second its required, is what matters and so this preachy old fart reckons the real skill is to minimise the likelihood of it going wrong on the road by not driving like a plonker in the first place. What's that nurse? Time for my medication and a snooze? lovely...
 

MrBlonde

ClioSport Club Member
#94
Haha i know,my brother in law has a C5 i think it is and he said how cheap the tax,insurance and petrol is considering what it is.Cheaper to run than his Q7 i think,madness
 

MonkeyKnifeFight

ClioSport Club Member
  Rusty Cup
#95
Ive owned both. I had a Storm grey 200 Cup with Recaros and speedlines and i currently drive a 172 Cup.

The 200 felt like a more special car to drive, the quick rack was great! brakes, incredible, handling was in a different league compared to the 172. You would have to be driving on meth to find the limits of grip on the road. Downsides of the 200 are the MPG which was almost always in the 20's, could get in the 30's on the motorway. The suspension was crazy firm at normal driving speed (awesome at full tilt) lastly it just felt like it could handle another 100hp.

My 172 Cup feels quicker to 60 im guessing it being 200kg lighter helps. Much easier to find the limits of grip which makes it feel more fun. MPG for the 172 is around 40. I run 15inch wheels so tyres are cheap. I cant think of a better car for the money i'd much rather own a 172 Cup over a 200 Cup.
 
#96
hmm..now started to wonder about a twingo 133...maybe that makes even more sense as a bonkers car for in town..
I’ve went from a 133 to eventually a 197 and would not go back, 133 did not have enough for me in regards to power after a corner, and the handling different between the two was marginal at best, 197/200 is a much nicer car to be inside as a 133 feels almost budget spec compared to. 197/200


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
  Clio 172 Cup
#97
Ive owned both. I had a Storm grey 200 Cup with Recaros and speedlines and i currently drive a 172 Cup.

The 200 felt like a more special car to drive, the quick rack was great! brakes, incredible, handling was in a different league compared to the 172. You would have to be driving on meth to find the limits of grip on the road. Downsides of the 200 are the MPG which was almost always in the 20's, could get in the 30's on the motorway. The suspension was crazy firm at normal driving speed (awesome at full tilt) lastly it just felt like it could handle another 100hp.

My 172 Cup feels quicker to 60 im guessing it being 200kg lighter helps. Much easier to find the limits of grip which makes it feel more fun. MPG for the 172 is around 40. I run 15inch wheels so tyres are cheap. I cant think of a better car for the money i'd much rather own a 172 Cup over a 200 Cup.
Having owned both (at the same time), I completely agree with this!!

I sold the 200 and still have the 172 Cup, don't think I can part with the 172 Cup! The 172 cup feels more like an old school hot hatch (obviously) like a modern 205 GTi, where as the Clio 200 feels like a mini race car / rally car for the road.

Or the best analogy I can think of is, the 172 Cup feels like an excited puppy on laminate flooring, the 200 feels like an excited puppy on carpet. The 200 is more composed and offers better grip, doesn't make it more fun though....

I keep thinking about scratching that Twingo 133 itch.......
 

Hollidog

ClioSport Club Member
  182
#98
Is the 200 EPAS or HPAS? I've coincidentally got a poverty spec mk4 Clio as a rental car at the moment, it has EPAS and I hate it, same as I hate EPAS in all modern cars. Hydraulic steering is just so much better in the 182 I have at home.
 
#99
Is the 200 EPAS or HPAS? I've coincidentally got a poverty spec mk4 Clio as a rental car at the moment, it has EPAS and I hate it, same as I hate EPAS in all modern cars. Hydraulic steering is just so much better in the 182 I have at home.
it's epas but it's good! I never saw it as a negative, my Mrs has a mk4 clip with the same epas your talking about and the epas in my mk4 220 feels like a different car, it's all in the setup/calibration
 

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