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172cup vs 200cup



yeecup

ClioSport Club Member
  330ci coupe, 172 cup
ive never driven a 200 cup. debated buying one many times, green with recaros would be epic. having a 172 cup I can only say as a weekend toy its great fun to drive and puts a smile on my face, I have a set of clubsport seats waiting to go in it which I think is a must, to lower and improve the seating position from standard which is one of the biggest gripes of them, and smaller steering wheel.
 

scalino65

ClioSport Club Member
hi. No, I am looking at a completely standard car and would keep it that way. What's your thinking? Not so good in standard form? thanks.
 

massivewangers

ClioSport Club Member
  Several
I've not driven a 200 Cup, but I owned a 172 Cup for four years and have spent quite a lot of time driving a friend's 197, which isn't really that different to the 200 in reality. My observations:

The 172 feels a lot more raw and exciting initially, mostly because it's a bean tin with a 2.0-litre engine in it lol. The lower weight means it feels more eager and responsive. The additional weight of the MK3 makes it feel a bit less responsive, so you have to really rev it to make the most of it, while the 172 can be driven more lazily.

In terms of the chassis, they are very different cars in my view. Again, refinement plays a part, but the 197 feels much more planted and stable, while the 172 feels a bit more skittish and, on uneven roads, feels like it's "skipping" across the surface by comparison. I don't think it inspires as much confidence.

As a practical prospect, they couldn't be more different. The 172 is obviously more economical and the short gearing of the 197 makes it feel a bit "buzzy" on the motorway. However, the 197 really does trump the 172 as a road car in every other way. It's more comfortable, more refined, more spacious and just a much easier car to live with on the road in my view.

If I was to have another Clio (which I plan to), I think I would probably go for a 197/200 on balance, especially for a road car. While the 172 Cup does offer the slightly more raw driving experience (which I like), the improved refinement and easy-to-live with elements of the later car would make it the winner, especially if you're going to use it for ferrying the kids around. Even as a track car, the 197/200 would tempt me now. I adored my 172 Cup, it's my favourite of all the cars I've owned (even compared to faster/more expensive stuff), but the 197/200 is just a more rounded package I think.

A good guide for me was that, when I borrowed my friend's 197 for a fortnight, it gave me such instant confidence that I was in full heel-and-toe, drive it like you stole it mode within a few miles, while the 172 took a bit longer to really get comfortable with. I've also been thinking about replacing my Escort rally car with some kind of Clio and, if I choose to go down that route, it's far more likely to be a 197 than a 172.

Hope that helps!
 

Sunglasses_Ron

ClioSport Admin
I've not driven a 200 Cup, but I owned a 172 Cup for four years and have spent quite a lot of time driving a friend's 197, which isn't really that different to the 200 in reality. My observations:

The 172 feels a lot more raw and exciting initially, mostly because it's a bean tin with a 2.0-litre engine in it lol. The lower weight means it feels more eager and responsive. The additional weight of the MK3 makes it feel a bit less responsive, so you have to really rev it to make the most of it, while the 172 can be driven more lazily.

In terms of the chassis, they are very different cars in my view. Again, refinement plays a part, but the 197 feels much more planted and stable, while the 172 feels a bit more skittish and, on uneven roads, feels like it's "skipping" across the surface by comparison. I don't think it inspires as much confidence.

As a practical prospect, they couldn't be more different. The 172 is obviously more economical and the short gearing of the 197 makes it feel a bit "buzzy" on the motorway. However, the 197 really does trump the 172 as a road car in every other way. It's more comfortable, more refined, more spacious and just a much easier car to live with on the road in my view.

If I was to have another Clio (which I plan to), I think I would probably go for a 197/200 on balance, especially for a road car. While the 172 Cup does offer the slightly more raw driving experience (which I like), the improved refinement and easy-to-live with elements of the later car would make it the winner, especially if you're going to use it for ferrying the kids around. Even as a track car, the 197/200 would tempt me now. I adored my 172 Cup, it's my favourite of all the cars I've owned (even compared to faster/more expensive stuff), but the 197/200 is just a more rounded package I think.

A good guide for me was that, when I borrowed my friend's 197 for a fortnight, it gave me such instant confidence that I was in full heel-and-toe, drive it like you stole it mode within a few miles, while the 172 took a bit longer to really get comfortable with. I've also been thinking about replacing my Escort rally car with some kind of Clio and, if I choose to go down that route, it's far more likely to be a 197 than a 172.

Hope that helps!
Brilliant write up 👍
 

Martin_172

ClioSport Club Member
  LY 220T & DCi65 Van
ive had every RS clio from a ph1 172 to a mk4 220 trophy (excluding a V6) and my thoughts are, out of the full range imo the mk3 197/200 is the best pure drivers car, it has the perfect mix of being old skool hot hatch with modern traits.

people regularly say the 197/200 feels too grown up and safe making it feel slower but imo the short ratio gearbox and higher reving, smoother revving engine makes it feel like a little road going race car, the mk2 always felt like something your brothers mate built in his garage in comparison (which was its charm in some ways)

If you just want somthing raw and old skool feeling to put a smile on your face at the weekends, bypass all the clios and gett a Twingo 133 cup

ive had a lot more mk2's than mk3's and they are fantastic, what ever one you go for, you will be happy and convinced you made the right choice.If i was going for a cheap track car id pick a 172 cup, if i was going for a weekend road toy i would pick a mk3 every day of the week.
 

scalino65

ClioSport Club Member
Thanks chaps that's very helpful. Martin and MW, those are very helpful descriptions that really convey the different feel of the two cars. It sounds like the 200 cup is perhaps the better fit for me as I certainly wont be doing any trackdays and I very much like the idea of a road going racing car feel: nice and wizzy with close ratio box. I will continue to keep looking for both 172 and 200s but probably leaning towards the 200 and will try not to be tempted to spend too much. If anyone knows of a 200 (either a cup or with cup chassis) with recaros please feel free to drop me a line.
 

scalino65

ClioSport Club Member
Hi Impreza, there's a chap on one of the facebook groups in Nottingham who is talking about 4500 for his albi blue one. 11 plate , 82k miles (maybe a bit far?) belts done two years ago. Recaros,etc. I've dropped him a line.
 

imprezaworks

ClioSport Club Member
  No car. To speak of.
Seems okay then. Depending on belts, history not hundreds of owners, good paint, etc etc
 

imprezaworks

ClioSport Club Member
  No car. To speak of.
Nope. Although i am keen on a 225 Leon a chap has on here.

Will know more this weekend.
 

bloke

ClioSport Club Member
  dan's cast offs.

scalino65

ClioSport Club Member
another albi blue with recaros, 4,500

I know the green and grey ones command a premium, but do any other colours tend to cost more?
 

Martin_172

ClioSport Club Member
  LY 220T & DCi65 Van
the engine differences between 197 and 200 read really well on paper but in reality I never noticed much difference, but the chassis made a difference I put 200 cup dampers on my 197 R27 and there was a massive difference id liked to have done the steering rack too.

Akrapovic evolution exhaust completes the package imo, sounds exactly as the car should have done from the factory. pricey but worth every penny
 
  172 Cup
I personally don't think the Twingo would have enough guts for me.

I love my 172 Cup and would no doubt miss it badly when I move it on....

but I want a 200 Cup badly.
 

Gus

ClioSport Moderator
  182Turbo,DCi90
Ive had loads of 182/172's and have a 200cup. You will be happy with both but the 200cup is pretty much the best NA hot hatch out there. There are a few choice mods that improve it slightly - Akrapovic exhaust, Recaros, some nice pads like Ds2500's. If you add Bilsteins and Michelin Cup 2 tyres then it is pretty much the ultimate hot hatch whether it be road or track.

Mine is going up for sale this weekend on here.
 

Martin_172

ClioSport Club Member
  LY 220T & DCi65 Van
I personally don't think the Twingo would have enough guts for me.

I love my 172 Cup and would no doubt miss it badly when I move it on....

but I want a 200 Cup badly.
I thought that too until I bought one, Clio RS always brings a smile to your face but I was regularly in the car myself giggling out loud in the twingo, I chased a poorly driven audi S4 a few years ago in mine down a pretty fast road with some decent bends, not just a tight backroad and before I knew it I was peddling it quicker than I probably would have been in a 172/182.

they are literally horrible to live with though, the ride is unreal i recon an elise would be nicer to live with as a daily driver, the noise never goes away people shake their head at you when all your trying to do is get out a junction. We upgraded my birds 1.2 16v Twingo that she done 30k in to one and she gave it to me 3 days later
 
I personally don't think the Twingo would have enough guts for me.

I love my 172 Cup and would no doubt miss it badly when I move it on....

but I want a 200 Cup badly.
The Twingos are, what, 133bhp? Isn't that basically the same as the original Valvers?

They were plenty quick enough once wound up and carrying ridiculous speeds round the corners, and it's always fun to be caning the tits off something rather than having to limit your fun because in a few seconds you've gone into licence-losing territory!

I really want a Twingo RS - they aren't the prettiest, granted, but they are tiny and quick and fun, and I like that sort of car because flash b******s in 'fast' cars who can't actually drive properly expect to be able to just walk away from you and get really annoyed when they can't shake you off, lol.

Plus, being small means you have more space to move about and pick your lines, as well as meaning you can nip through gaps others can't.
 

scalino65

ClioSport Club Member
A hot little twingo might be just the thing for me. Given, 95% of my driving is bombing about in town and into London, something really small and nippy could be the best idea. I need to go and try all these things.
 

scalino65

ClioSport Club Member
The Twingos are, what, 133bhp? Isn't that basically the same as the original Valvers?

They were plenty quick enough once wound up and carrying ridiculous speeds round the corners, and it's always fun to be caning the tits off something rather than having to limit your fun because in a few seconds you've gone into licence-losing territory!

I really want a Twingo RS - they aren't the prettiest, granted, but they are tiny and quick and fun, and I like that sort of car because flash b******s in 'fast' cars who can't actually drive properly expect to be able to just walk away from you and get really annoyed when they can't shake you off, lol.

Plus, being small means you have more space to move about and pick your lines, as well as meaning you can nip through gaps others can't.
BINGO! Exactly, have loads of fun and make your driving as precise as possible to get the most out of what you have.
 

MarkCup

ClioSport Club Member
The Twingos are, what, 133bhp? Isn't that basically the same as the original Valvers?

They were plenty quick enough once wound up and carrying ridiculous speeds round the corners, and it's always fun to be caning the tits off something rather than having to limit your fun because in a few seconds you've gone into licence-losing territory!

I really want a Twingo RS - they aren't the prettiest, granted, but they are tiny and quick and fun, and I like that sort of car because flash b******s in 'fast' cars who can't actually drive properly expect to be able to just walk away from you and get really annoyed when they can't shake you off, lol.

Plus, being small means you have more space to move about and pick your lines, as well as meaning you can nip through gaps others can't.
This is why I liked my Ignis Sport so much. Genuinely flat out absolutely everywhere and enough capability to really make progress.

Twingo 133 is a good shout!
 

Amos91

ClioSport Club Member
That sounds excellent fun! I would probably get into trouble with that. lol

Is there a build thread somewhere??
Unfortunately not, the only ones I'm aware of were done by Beaniesport in MK. From what I remember him saying it needs a bit cut off the subframe and welded upside down and then stiff engine mounts otherwise the belts will rub on the chassis leg -


This was the first one:

mEm6WkT.jpg


And Chris at Beanie owns this one which I drove at Rockingham -

YVqSpuX.jpg
 
  Listerine & Poledo
One thing I don't understand / hate is when a 172 cup owner says 'ooh lack of ABS in the winter, scary!!' Sorry, but if you're relying on it, you clearly don't know how to drive!!
If you are used to it and can overcome the natural reaction to mash the brake pedal, by modulating the brake yourself you can stop a non-abs car in much less distance than in an abs car.
This is a lovely utopian theory. Yes, when you're coming up on Paddock Hill bend, you'll be all set to feather and modulate your pedals just so, and chip away at that lap time.

But in the 99% of your driving, when you're just thinking about what to get in for dinner, you're just ambling along from A to B.. Are you going to get specific on your brake pedal when that cyclist pulls out on you out of nowhere (without looking, and probably with no lights, bellends).

So whilst the ambulance is mopping up Little Jimmy's giblets from your grille and the floor, are you still going to be singing the praises of your super-cool track-focused braking? No, no, you're going to be going in front of a judge who, most likely, isn't going to share your opinion.

Yes, this is an extreme exaggeration of the point, and in many cases if you lock-up in a Clio you'll have to have tried pretty hard to do so. Hell, I can't think of more than a few times I triggered ABS in my 172 in the 5 years I had it, and most of those would have been in snow or similar. But the point remains that these things exist to stop you wiping out not just your front bumper and rad, but people just going about their day around you.

And yes, I fully expect the CS bigman wave to come back telling me how they are better than Bottas
 
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