black mk1 16v

[wilky19]

i'd been wanting a valver for a while but after looking at a few that where utter dog's i decided to give up on the idea of getting one. Then a black valver came up on auto trader that fit the bill exactly, after a quick phone call and trip to Liverpool the car was mine.
the car seems to have a good past especially when it comes to owners, the first owner was Renault liverpool as it was used as demonstrator then the manager bought the car for himself, he then sold it to one of his technicians who then after about 7 years of ownership sold it to his cousin who also works at Renault as a parts salesman, then Me.

here's the pic's from the advert

and some from when i picked it up

there were a few little problems with the car that i started to address within the first few weeks of owning it, these were nothing major but things that are really annoying.

the first one was the radio got no reception as you can see the cable was know were to be seen

so after abit of a dig around i found the cable had been wound up and was hidden the trim near the pedal box. i rerouted the cable and bang the radio worked.

whilst i was at it the a changed the clock over because it wasn't working and changed the bulbs in the heater dials because some weren't working.

a few weeks later it developed a very minor misfire so i checked over the plug and they were swimming in oil. so a ned rocker cover gasket was in order, whilst i was at it i thought a service was in order.

i ending up doing just a dry service because i didn't have enough oil with me to change it.

the car was running great but i still didn't have time to do the oil change, then a rolling road came up on cliosport up at rstuning. i traveled up with f0xy and some of the lads from cliosport. The day was going great till paul jumped in and went to reverse the car on to the rollers when the bottom end started knocking

so with a quick check of the dipstick the fears were soon realised with metal fillings in the oil. after a phone call to rac i was told they were on the way to recover it. when the car cooled down we checked the oil again to check it again and mine and everyone's surprise the oil wasn't even on the dipstick. 3.5 litres of oil later, the oil was in the middle of the dipstick, but no sign of were the oil had gone before. rac came and took the me and the car back home to where it is still to this day.

gutted was an understatement

the plans were after i sorted another car out so i could get to work and back, was to stick an other f7p or an f7r in. but after looking around for a while i went off the idea of sticking another valver engine in because with the effort of doing it i could just as easily put an f7r in. Then after looking at the prices of f7r compared to there condition/mileage/age i thought they were a bit over priced.

after chatting to f0xy about i doing an f4r conversion my mind was made up.

f4r here i come

 

[ali-ham]

lovin this clio! Black 16v's are always very nice! a bit of bad luck with the car mate but im sure once you get the engine sorted it'll be back better than ever! gona keep an eye on this!! looks good!!

 

[Davis]

i like black valvers! ive had 2 449's in the past! good look with the project mate!

 

[theduck]

Loving these F4R Hybrids

 

[DannoTheGreat]

never seen a black valver before, looks a good one buddy

 

[W17GLE]

My mum and dad had a j reg black valver when they were new i was hoping it was going to be that one. Nice car

 

[jamie rigby]

hi mate, glad you've got a project going on! jord told me that your going down the F4R route, will be well worth it in the end mate!! will be good to see who has it done first you or AdamAnderon

 

[f0xy]

Well we all know the answer to that....


Was wondering if you were going to put a thread up Rob! Quite a way to go yet mind :approve:

 

[wilky19]

hi mate, glad you've got a project going on! jord told me that your going down the F4R route, will be well worth it in the end mate!! will be good to see who has it done first you or AdamAnderon

f4r is the way to go
I'm not desperate for the car yet but I'm missing it. it will take a while cos I'm proper skint at the moment and don't have a lot of free time.

Was wondering if you were going to put a thread up Rob! Quite a way to go yet mind :approve:

seems miles away but still within reach, I'll just keep slogging away at it.

 

[Ben]

Nice black valver Hope you get it sorted buddy.

 

[Aluco]

ahh it's yours ! I seen it at the RST meet. Like it on the 172 wheels.

Sorry to hear about your bottom end mate

 

[wilky19]

few parts have now been bought for the conversion

172 phase 1 wiring loom (thanks Trev_m)
172 phase 1 ecu (thanks Trev_m)
172 top mount(thanks bloooor)
172 manifold(ebay bargain)

may have also sourced a lump

also a few parts have been got to fix some of its problems.

a black valver carpet(thanks matt brown) to replace the wrong ripped carpet that is in now
a new set of dials for the bargain price of £2.21 these are need because the mile/trip reset has snapped so can't be reset

pics of all parts when i find/buy some batteries for my camera

 

[wilky19]

ahh it's yours ! I seen it at the RST meet. Like it on the 172 wheels.

Sorry to hear about your bottom end mate

the 172 alloys look alright but i'm not really feeling them i think i need to wider and lower to pull them off properly. ive got some 16v ph2 in shed that i was planing on putting on. but the need a refurb and tyres, would rather spend the cash at the moment on the conversion than no essential cosmetic iteams

 

[cliosportcraig]

If you want your ECU decoding then I can do it for £40 + £40 to fit an emulator

Cheaper than a lot of other companies out there

 

[wilky19]

If you want your ECU decoding then I can do it for £40 + £40 to fit an emulator

Cheaper than a lot of other companies out there

i was going to give you a shout near then time, i did mean to drop you a pm about fitting the emulator.

i think as soon as i have a lump sorted and the loom done i'll get the ecu done

 

[2 live]

love black valvers. my 1st and last valvers were black.

personally tho, id stick with the f7s, but go for the 2.0. by the time youv bought evrything to get it running an f4, you could have a plug and play f7r , cammed up etc and itd be quicker than the f4. with a lot less hassle



good luck with the conversion tho.

 

[cliosportcraig]

i was going to give you a shout near then time, i did mean to drop you a pm about fitting the emulator.

i think as soon as i have a lump sorted and the loom done i'll get the ecu done

No worries bud

Mine should be ready soon, just need some decent weather to get the lump in

 

[wilky19]

love black valvers. my 1st and last valvers were black.

personally tho, id stick with the f7s, but go for the 2.0. by the time youv bought evrything to get it running an f4, you could have a plug and play f7r , cammed up etc and itd be quicker than the f4. with a lot less hassle



good luck with the conversion tho.

i also love the look of black valvers, nearly everyone who sore the car loved how mean it looked

i have thought this but with the car going to be used daily. i wanted some thing that i could live without a brutal idle and get reasonably mpg. also if i cammed a f7 i would need a proper remap and that would bump the price up instantly.

the f7 is definitely the easier option but i thought whilst the car was off the road i might as well do something interesting, there is also more scope for mod's in the future

 

[2 live]

mine runs 270 cams idles not too lumpy at all. economy isnt that bad. i had 260s before this and believe it or not, after the remap it was more economical than it was std. if u tickled it. obviously it drank like a fish with the foot on the boards. lol. nowhere near as bad as it was with the bodies tho.

a gunnerchip can be had for like £30 and that will cater for the cams too. but thats a generic/off shelf chip. my remap was £300 from wayne at chip wizards, worth evry single penny too. takes the piss outta majority of companies remaps.

and theres still as much scope for future mods as there is on an f4. what you can do to 1, u can also do to the other. chargers, turbos etc.

 

[AdamAnderton]

Looking nice mate, i see you are going down the 172 route very nice, when do you think you will have it done, idealy id like mine done for feb but there is a hell of a lot of work to be done.

 

[Matteh]

and theres still as much scope for future mods as there is on an f4. what you can do to 1, u can also do to the other. chargers, turbos etc.

you can't cam a cammed f7r though...

 

[2 live]

you can't cam a cammed f7r though...

?????


260s take it to same spec as f4...270s upgrade more.

 

[sideways danny]

?????


260s take it to same spec as f4...270s upgrade more.

poofy profiles. all about 286 / 278

 

[Matteh]

?????


260s take it to same spec as f4...270s upgrade more.

what I was saying is you could then put similar cams in an f4r and be ahead again?

 

[f0xy]

Wat cams did Jay S's used to have in it? ££££'s worth of - headwork/cams/mapped to 170bhp+...

Then on the other hand I had £300's worth of F4R in my shell. Had some decent comparison with him round Brands Hatch earlier in the year, there was nothing in it apart from the only advantage on my side was the F4 had more mid range torque/pull...

If you're doing the F4 conversion and doing the work yourself (considering that the conversion is now STUPIDLY easy, with all the bugs ironed out and wiring diagrams you cant go wrong from) it is ALOT cheaper compared to spending ££££ on a F7 just to get it to keep up power wise IMO.

 

[geesus69]

good to see another one

common as muck now these F4R'd mk1's

 

[Matteh]

ones actually on the road are still rare

 

[geesus69]

ones actually on the road are still rare

indeed lol

mine is in danger of being trailered everywhere, might never see the road again!

 

[2 live]

Wat cams did Jay S's used to have in it? ££££'s worth of - headwork/cams/mapped to 170bhp+...

Then on the other hand I had £300's worth of F4R in my shell. Had some decent comparison with him round Brands Hatch earlier in the year, there was nothing in it apart from the only advantage on my side was the F4 had more mid range torque/pull...

If you're doing the F4 conversion and doing the work yourself (considering that the conversion is now STUPIDLY easy, with all the bugs ironed out and wiring diagrams you cant go wrong from) it is ALOT cheaper compared to spending ££££ on a F7 just to get it to keep up power wise IMO.

in that case....adis cliorossa had £000s spent on it, kill power modded/chipped, was only slightly quicker than my standard williams. couple of hundred quidsworth of cams n his ass was mine. mapped on top of that i handed him his ass evry time, til he got the giggle gas....5 mins and 1 empty bottle later ....his ass was mine again.

my other williams. less than a grand as is. vs the nana, the nana had slightly more torque round oulton, but thats it...and he had more money in his headwork alone than i had in the whole car.

depends whos done the tuning as to what the performance is like.

last engine i built was a £200 er, f7r, compared to the £000s spent on the nana. lapping oulton at around the same pace. some places hed pull away, coming out of fosters?? chicane up the hill, after initial torque advantage it wasnt going anywhere ,and i was catching on top end.

 

[Matteh]

or it shows the f7r's don't tune up that well

</devils advocate>

 

[2 live]

like i said...depends who tunes it.

back street build over tuner builds evry day of the week for me tbh.

there are pros and cons for both. as said previously, personally id stick with the f7, easier, cheaper, and slightly quicker

again all imho

 

[f0xy]

in that case....adis cliorossa had £000s spent on it, kill power modded/chipped, was only slightly quicker than my standard williams. couple of hundred quidsworth of cams n his ass was mine. mapped on top of that i handed him his ass evry time, til he got the giggle gas....5 mins and 1 empty bottle later ....his ass was mine again.

Whats this got to do with anything? Im sure I was on about F7 vs F4, not F7 vs F7...

Yeah you might have only had a couple of hundred quids worth of cams, which you can fit yourself yeah, all well and good of course. But I was referring to £1000's being the average joe who would have to pay someone to supply, then fit, and then map them to get the best from them. Not everyone does their own work with regards to swapping engine bits.....

my other williams. less than a grand as is. vs the nana, the nana had slightly more torque round oulton, but thats it...and he had more money in his headwork alone than i had in the whole car.

depends whos done the tuning as to what the performance is like.

Nana is F7 too though isnt it...Not F4? Im referring to F4 vs F7....

Ive had an F7 in mine, couple of hundred quids worth of engine. Brand new williams head rebuilt on a Meggy bottom end. Drove nice, pulled well. No cams or anything but F7R standard is piss poor in comparison to F4 standard, it just does not have comparable power. The cambelt failed after getting gravel in the cover on the F7R so I rebuilt it and moved on.

And yeah it does depend who does the tuning and work, and what methods they use obviously...but when we're referring to the average joe forum user who will use people to do their engine work for them, minimum they would be spending is in the ££££'s for Cams/Fitting/Map....then even more cost of they want headwork.

last engine i built was a £200 er, f7r, compared to the £000s spent on the nana. lapping oulton at around the same pace. some places hed pull away, coming out of fosters?? chicane up the hill, after initial torque advantage it wasnt going anywhere ,and i was catching on top end.

Fair enough a bit more torque might not have any effect at all, as you say he got away one corner then you caught up. I was purely using JayS's as an example to proove there was nothing in it, after the money that had been spent from both sides. There ACTUAL difference was I could just get away in a straight line and out of corners, but only minimal. I didnt even bring it up with him on the day, it was Jay who came over to me and said it!

 

[jamie rigby]

there are pros and cons for both. as said previously, personally id stick with the f7, easier, cheaper, and slightly quicker

again all imho

would love to see the likes of say Daz clio cups engine in f0xys or whiteleys shells tbh, would kill an F7R, specially if jords does against jay s' atm, and jay had 177bhp at brands jord has 170bhp (torques where its at)

 

[f0xy]

Jamie G.T.F.O you dont know what your taking about with this.

 

[2 live]

see what your saying mate, but tbh if the lads gunna be taking on the conversion himself, then throwing a set of cams in an f7 is gunna be childs play.

f7 vs f4. only way to compare would be to get them to same spec, which would mean camming the f7 for a start to bring it in line with the f4s cams. duration and lift wise. yes extra money, but cheap enough to pick up and easy enough to do.


btw are we talkin 170 ish at the fly or wheels? and whos rollers?

mine was running about 135 at the wheels in standard trim, well with zorst and de-cat. no cams no chip etc. this was a r/r day where the majority of 172s were running around the same power 138-140 iirc. throwing cams and map at mine brought it up nearer 150 at the wheels. and thats with relatively mild cams, but bringing it into line with the std f4s....which would have put it around 10-15 bhp up over the f4s......swings and roundabouts, but the f7s are where the powers at

 

[f0xy]

see what your saying mate, but tbh if the lads gunna be taking on the conversion himself, then throwing a set of cams in an f7 is gunna be childs play.

True yeah...although lifting an engine out and just dropping another in is a bit different to timing up cams and doing a cambelt. Literally just drop the F4 in, bolt the mounts down, swap some wires and plug ECU in...away you go. Unless your wanting to service it, the cambelt is the worst invention ever on the F4...one of the only things I liked about the F7 series was the ease of timing it up!

But yeah I suppose someone who is removing an engine would need to have played with engines before

f7 vs f4. only way to compare would be to get them to same spec, which would mean camming the f7 for a start to bring it in line with the f4s cams. duration and lift wise. yes extra money, but cheap enough to pick up and easy enough to do.

Do you know by how much they differ out of interest? Piper 270s or 280s on par maybe?

 

[2 live]

iirc i think the f4s are around the 265 mark not 100% sure on that one tho. but they are a lot more duration/lift than a std williams.


and hes gunna be pulling an engine out either way, a straight swap of evrything from f7p/f7r, loom ecu etc, get the ecu chipped, like i say a gunner chip costs around £30 and gets decent results. and is already mapped for cams.

proper plug and play without having to mess around tracing wires in the loom etc.can have it done in a few hours

 

[Whiteley]

Or maybe, just maybe, he'd sooner have a newer, more economical, more reliable, cheaper, more powerful (AS STANDARD) engine in the first place?

The wiring is piss easy, Wilky could be an electrician for all we know in which case he'll have the loom built in roughly 4 minutes. There really is that little to it and not something that you should rule an F4 out because of. I'm assuming you (2 live) have no experience of building an F4R/Mk1 loom so arent suitably qualified to say what does or doesn't go into it.

Either engine will cost the same money in the first place. Cams ontop to bring the F7 somewhere upto similar power (still less torque) will cost more money again, making it more expensive as an overall package than the F4. A gunnerchip to then get it to run the cams you've just bought will cost the same as an emulator to get the 172 ECU to work, so that 30 quid can be forgotten about. Meaning it's more cost effective to swap for an F4, simple.

F7 might be easier yes, but easier certainly isnt always better.

 

[2 live]

lol..no mate ur right. i dont have the experience of making a mk1/f4 loom. as for being qualified......wtf?? is there a qualification for it?? lol

judging by r/r days etc the f7s always produce the goods, the f4s are very hit and miss. some produce only a little less than std reno figures, most a lot less. and this is from countless cars/rollers.

i didnt know you could pick f4 engines up for as little as £150 now, and what is the std torque figures for said f4r's? btw, a chip isnt needed to run the cams, i ran mine for over 12 months without a remap, and on std ecu. it was still a damn sight quicker than a std f7r.

easier is not always better no.....but then newer isnt always better either. as iv said above, swings and roundabouts.


you can get off your high horse now

 

[Matteh]

F4Rs make more torque for more rpm than an f7r

200Nm peak iirc

also, where are £150 williams engines?! megane maybe? but then you've got just as much hassle converting the loom, unless you machine the head for a dizzy or run a valver head... then you can baww as your gunnerchip overfuels like a mofo