track days, diff suspension on a Cup

[jester2k]

Now i know there is not right or wrong, just after different view points.

I have started to get back into track days, used to take the Honda s2000, but now taking the cup. Now I know (more marketing than anything) the cup is a more track based car.

However how much difference really would:

powerflex bushes (vs new in good condition)
Strut bars
uprated suspension (i know prices and quality vary).
Semi slicks. (I image this make the most difference)

Or really, just becoming a better driver (tuition) is the money being better spent..

Do they actually increase your fun, or is it to just reduce body roll, flex to make the car feel better. Or is it the case that you can go quicker than a 500bhp skyline through the twisties...

 

[ForceIndia]

Tuition every time imo. I've got coils, had r888's and had tuition.

 

[Icarus]

Now i know there is not right or wrong, just after different view points.

I have started to get back into track days, used to take the Honda s2000, but now taking the cup. Now I know (more marketing than anything) the cup is a more track based car.

However how much difference really would:

powerflex bushes (vs new in good condition)
Strut bars
uprated suspension (i know prices and quality vary).
Semi slicks. (I image this make the most difference)

Or really, just becoming a better driver (tuition) is the money being better spent..

Do they actually increase your fun, or is it to just reduce body roll, flex to make the car feel better. Or is it the case that you can go quicker than a 500bhp skyline through the twisties...

Tuition every time but there is a point where you obviously want more out of the base car.

Bushes - standards in good nick are absolutely fine.
Strutbraces - most of the ones I've seen don't actualy bolt in well enough to make any difference and the Mk2 Clio shell is pretty stiff to be fair so doesn't desperately need any help.
Uprated Suspension - For track really you need to budget £1K for a good setup thats still road useable. This will either make a big positive or a big negative difference depending if its any good or not.
Semi Slicks - Guessing you mean track orientated R888's/A048's rather than proper semi slicks? Yes they will make a big difference but on standard suspension you may find the amount of lateral G you can generate leaves the car sat on the bump stops or suffering from very excessive roll.

Cheers
M

 

[shiyan]

Tuition every time but there is a point where you obviously want more out of the base car.

Bushes - standards in good nick are absolutely fine.
Strutbraces - most of the ones I've seen don't actualy bolt in well enough to make any difference and the Mk2 Clio shell is pretty stiff to be fair so doesn't desperately need any help.
Uprated Suspension - For track really you need to budget £1K for a good setup thats still road useable. This will either make a big positive or a big negative difference depending if its any good or not.
Semi Slicks - Guessing you mean track orientated R888's/A048's rather than proper semi slicks? Yes they will make a big difference but on standard suspension you may find the amount of lateral G you can generate leaves the car sat on the bump stops or suffering from very excessive roll.

Cheers
M

I'm guessing from the part in bold that a standard car with R888s wouldn't be much fun to drive compared to one with the standard PE2s? :dunno:

If I stick with a standard car should I just stick with the PE2 for track use, if I just want "fun" rather than laptime?


I have a set of spare rims so it could be an option to get a set of track tires like R888 if they're more fun to use on track

 

[ForceIndia]

R888's aren't necessarily about fun, they are about speed and grip.

 

[jester2k]

obviously a silly follow-up question, but your best guess, just out of interest, what sort of times (give an example track) are they going to increase lap times by. Now I know that on combe for example, lots of straights not too much.. Or again, is it about chasing down fast bits of metal..

blithering on now

 

[ForceIndia]

Impossible to say. Too many variables (weather, temp, etc)

 

[Gasket]

obviously a silly follow-up question, but your best guess, just out of interest, what sort of times (give an example track) are they going to increase lap times by. Now I know that on combe for example, lots of straights not too much.. Or again, is it about chasing down fast bits of metal..

blithering on now

15 deg ambient day. Brands Indy circuit. Stock Clio chassis/suspension.

2 sec per lap reduction on R888s compared to Exaltos

 

[shiyan]

15 deg ambient day. Brands Indy circuit. Stock Clio chassis/suspension.

2 sec per lap reduction on R888s compared to Exaltos

noob question here, but is the R888's a lot less forgiving / less predictable at the limit compared to say the PE2?

 

[ForceIndia]

noob question here, but is the R888's a lot less forgiving / less predictable at the limit compared to say the PE2?

Not as forgiving, but the limits are higher. I got rid of mine, as I didn't have more fun on them, and they increase wear on parts like bearings etc due to the increased grip.

 

[Tony Hunter]

Just spend the money on Tuition,you will be suprised.

 

[jester2k]

That was my first thought, though i did have a fair few in the s2000, which when driven well was a very fast car (not the straights), but in the twisties, lots of faster metal moved over to let me past. When setup correctly, and well balanced a s2000 can carry some serious speed in the bends..

Im just going to take the cup to have a play i think,,

 

[Gasket]

noob question here, but is the R888's a lot less forgiving / less predictable at the limit compared to say the PE2?

At the limit a tyre is actually working very well. That limit should not be right on the point of losing traction though. You need to be working with a small amount of tyre slip at high adhesion with a good upper margin. That is what you could call the ideal limit. ie working the tyre to achieve the quickest time. Easy to say but difficult to achieve. Once the tyre eventually lets go, the subsequent recovery is more dependant on the car dynamics at the time.

To answer your question, forgiving and predictability are handling traits as much as tyre characteristics. An R888 once up to temperature will feel the same on the limit, the limits will just be that much higher.

 

[ForceIndia]

At the limit a tyre is actually working very well. That limit should not be right on the point of losing traction though. You need to be working with a small amount of tyre slip at high adhesion with a good upper margin. That is what you could call the ideal limit. ie working the tyre to achieve the quickest time. Easy to say but difficult to achieve. Once the tyre eventually lets go, the subsequent recovery is more dependant on the car dynamics at the time.

To answer your question, forgiving and predictability are handling traits as much as tyre characteristics. An R888 once up to temperature will feel the same on the limit, the limits will just be that much higher.

I had to lol. Completely true, but utterly irrelevant.

 

[Gasket]

I had to lol. Completely true, but utterly irrelevant.

I facied an in depth reply. The relevance is there if you look for it.

 

[Brett]

Tuition every time imo. I've got coils, had r888's and had tuition.

What tuition have you had? track day tuition? Its only around £20 with a trackday isnt it?

 

[caister]

Did my first trackday this month my suspension is stock apart from eibach springs. I was running PE2's.

I was useless in the first few hours of the morning session but I had an hour tuition before lunch and I was a different driver in the afternoon. Another hours tuition and I was keeping up with cars that had allot more power/better setup etc. The car was still much more capable than me.

So I would say tuition until you feel the car is holding you back and then you can start upgrading parts.

 

[shiyan]

Thanks for the responses guys

I think I'll stay with the PE2s or the cheaper Toyos for the time being then

 

[MarkCup]

Tuistion first, then tyres, then brakes. That is all you need to do. In that order.

15 deg ambient day. Brands Indy circuit. Stock Clio chassis/suspension.

2 sec per lap reduction on R888s compared to Exaltos

I'd agree with that...I get around 3 seconds (although there's more to be had) around Combe and Goodwood.

I'm guessing from the part in bold that a standard car with R888s wouldn't be much fun to drive compared to one with the standard PE2s?

Wrong! My Cup has always been on standard springs/dampers. Great fun

 

[ForceIndia]

What tuition have you had? track day tuition? Its only around £20 with a trackday isnt it?

Track tuition on every new track I've been to, and a couple of days training with cadence.

 

[Gasket]

Tuistion first, then tyres, then brakes. That is all you need to do. In that order.



I'd agree with that...I get around 3 seconds (although there's more to be had) around Combe and Goodwood.



Wrong! My Cup has always been on standard springs/dampers. Great fun

Very true. You dont need any supspension modifications to go quicker with R888s. Once up to temperature, they give you more traction, reduce understeer and shorten braking distances.

 

[TooneySonic]

would have thought that once up to temp that the 888's will maintain their level of performance for longer (ie before they get too hot like the standard tyres can) allowing you to get more out of the day

tuition everytime tbh

warren how did you find cadence? got a palmerday thingy waiting to be done, should be good