Throttle bodies??? Cheap alternative

[dangle172]

I'm thinking about getting some throttle bodies for my 172. Iv heard about some people using ones of bikes like fire blades and gsxr's.

I have found these on eBay:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Triumph-TT600...mQQptZUK_Motorcycle_Parts?hash=item45f1926963

Now I'm not thinking about buying these exact ones but i just want to see what people think and if anyone can give me any feed back on the idea!

I can make a manifold on my laser and do all welding needed to make these fit.

What else is needed to make my car run? Throttle cable conversion? New ecu?
Really don't know a great deal on the work involved

 

[Hutchie]

172 needs bigger than 44mm

 

[dangle172]

What are u running yours on Hutchie?

 

[Hutchie]

44's

 

[sideways danny]

could give you opinions and advice, but tbh, it's easier if you just read this.....

http://forum.205gtidrivers.com/index.php?showtopic=113540

tells you pretty much everything you'll ever need to know about bike bodies on a car, pro's, cons, and opinions

 

[sideways danny]

172 needs bigger than 44mm

i recon bigger than 42mm on totally standard internals. It's built engines that will be strangled

 

[sideways danny]

Done properly, they can be fantastic

but doing them like this isn't going to be much less money than buying purpose made items

 

[dangle172]

Thanks hutchie, is it just a simple case of making them fit, converting to a throttle cable and connecting injectors and fuel line?


Thanks danny, will have a read now.

 

[dangle172]

44's

could give you opinions and advice, but tbh, it's easier if you just read this.....

http://forum.205gtidrivers.com/index.php?showtopic=113540

tells you pretty much everything you'll ever need to know about bike bodies on a car, pro's, cons, and opinions

Done properly, they can be fantastic

but doing them like this isn't going to be much less money than buying purpose made items

Im an engineer with cnc laths, millers, lasers and water jet machines at my disposal so if i can buy some decent bodies i can make the rest for nothing

 

[sideways danny]

I'm selling these that I bought to learn a bit more about them and try to make a good solution onto a mates car, but he chickened out when we found a CHEEEEEAAAAAAAP set of jenveys on ebay

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=130382318988&ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT

 

[dangle172]

Thinking about it, would i not be able to use some throttle bodies off an R1 with fly by wire? So i wouldnt need to run on a throttle cable?

 

[RoryW]

I have a set of 954 carbs in my shed from my old blade :evil:

 

[jamie rigby]

Done properly, they can be fantastic

but doing them like this isn't going to be much less money than buying purpose made items

They look exactly the same as what a lads running on his 1.6 on zsoc, what are they off (inc. manifold)?

 

[Pete@Auto-Nation]

All in cost for that sort of setup is £500 ish plus the original bodies. One of the benefits is that it is a complete solution, including fuel rail, throttle position sensor etc. The throttle cam is modified so that the pedal has more travel, since the bike doesnt have a great deal.

One thing that shouldn't be overlooked is that the manifold length and angle is fairly critical to making them a good setup or not.

 

[dangle172]

I have a set of 954 carbs in my shed from my old blade :evil:

Carb's drink wayyyyyyyyy too much fuel for me. Im liking the look of these bodies tho! So does anyone know if i can use throttle bodies of an R1 with fly by wire, whether it will be compatible of not??

 

[sideways danny]

They look exactly the same as what a lads running on his 1.6 on zsoc, what are they off (inc. manifold)?

believe they're GSX-R1000 bodies, manifold is for an Mi16, setup made my Colin Satchell of Pure Motorsport

 

[dangle172]

believe they're GSX-R1000 bodies, manifold is for an Mi16, setup made my Colin Satchell of Pure Motorsport

I take it that both flanges and pipes are made out of a hard grade aluminum and machined after welding?

 

[Sandy309]

They look exactly the same as what a lads running on his 1.6 on zsoc, what are they off (inc. manifold)?

If you mean Jason Cooper, then yes (my engine).

believe they're GSX-R1000 bodies, manifold is for an Mi16, setup made my Colin Satchell of Pure Motorsport

Colin Satchell does work for Pure Motorsport, but they are separate. Colin and I develop the GSXR kits together, but he makes and supplies them.

I take it that both flanges and pipes are made out of a hard grade aluminum and machined after welding?

The flanges are CNC machined from plate, the pipes are rolled with a special machine Colin made to roll the bends without collapsing the section. The flanges and pipes are welded on a jig, the internal shape is hand ported, the head flange is fly cut flat, then the outer flange is CNC machined to ensure a precision fit for the TBs, which seal with O-rings in grooves turned into the bodies. Alot of work!

 

[Hutchie]

 

[sideways danny]

Hutchie, do you have any better pics of how you put the trumpets on?

 

[Hutchie]

Hutchie, do you have any better pics of how you put the trumpets on?

i made some pikey brackets to sit over lip in trumpets and fasten to the three bolts on each pair of boddies

you can see the stainless above, its now housed inside of the airbox/filter its not pretty, does the job.

had to make a custom backing plate as fuel rail is in the way of a completly flat one, and jenveys backing plate has too much of a dish, filer would of been level with front of the car :rasp:

 

[dangle172]

If you mean Jason Cooper, then yes (my engine).


Colin Satchell does work for Pure Motorsport, but they are separate. Colin and I develop the GSXR kits together, but he makes and supplies them.


The flanges are CNC machined from plate, the pipes are rolled with a special machine Colin made to roll the bends without collapsing the section. The flanges and pipes are welded on a jig, the internal shape is hand ported, the head flange is fly cut flat, then the outer flange is CNC machined to ensure a precision fit for the TBs, which seal with O-rings in grooves turned into the bodies. Alot of work!

Sounds like a days work to make but a months worth of thinking and lots of samples to make first. I'll be using a waterjet machining centre to profile cut the flanges out of 12mm aluminium. For the pipes i'll probably have to roll a large radius (of which im not sure yet:S ), then cut my 4 pieces out of it.
Ill have to make all this out of mild steel first to make sure it fits and to make a jig around.
All the machining to the flanges will be done after welding IE: O-Ring groves, injector ports and facing off the flanges as welding them will warp them to f*%k.
These pics Sideways danny put up are a great help tho and i wouldn't have been able to think of making them for myself with out them.

 

[Tekillator]

I am also looking for a set of ETBs maybe from K-Tec

 

[sideways danny]

i made some pikey brackets to sit over lip in trumpets and fasten to the three bolts on each pair of boddies

you can see the stainless above, its now housed inside of the airbox/filter its not pretty, does the job.

had to make a custom backing plate as fuel rail is in the way of a completly flat one, and jenveys backing plate has too much of a dish, filer would of been level with front of the car :rasp:

ah, that's kind of what i thought, just so hard finding trumpets of a decent type that are adaptable.

 

[Hutchie]

heres a rough picture of mine (mock up) before it got welded

and danny my trumpets are off AT power and are a perfect fit

 

[sideways danny]

Sounds like a days work to make but a months worth of thinking and lots of samples to make first. I'll be using a waterjet machining centre to profile cut the flanges out of 12mm aluminium. For the pipes i'll probably have to roll a large radius (of which im not sure yet:S ), then cut my 4 pieces out of it.
Ill have to make all this out of mild steel first to make sure it fits and to make a jig around.
All the machining to the flanges will be done after welding IE: O-Ring groves, injector ports and facing off the flanges as welding them will warp them to f*%k.
These pics Sideways danny put up are a great help tho and i wouldn't have been able to think of making them for myself with out them.

sounds like a cool project as a 1 off

Well worth looking at as many designs of bodies as you can find. The best design bike bodies i found for adapting to cars looked to be going for a fairly heavy amount of cash sadly

 

[dangle172]

ah, that's kind of what i thought, just so hard finding trumpets of a decent type that are adaptable.

Could you not just drill and tap a small hole in the trumpet and use a grub screw to tighten them on?

 

[dangle172]

sounds like a cool project as a 1 off

Well worth looking at as many designs of bodies as you can find. The best design bike bodies i found for adapting to cars looked to be going for a fairly heavy amount of cash sadly

Im wanting to still use my FBW system so this is my biggest Ball ache.
Im now thinking about butchering a standard throttle body and mounting it on the bike throttle bodies as a way of opening the butterflies. Im not too sure whether the motor in the standard body will be strong enough tho. I can only try i guess

 

[sideways danny]

Could you not just drill and tap a small hole in the trumpet and use a grub screw to tighten them on?

depends on the type of throttle body. Honda bodies like Hutchies are particularly difficult to adapt for due to the front face

 

[sideways danny]

Im wanting to still use my FBW system so this is my biggest Ball ache.
Im now thinking about butchering a standard throttle body and mounting it on the bike throttle bodies as a way of opening the butterflies. Im not too sure whether the motor in the standard body will be strong enough tho. I can only try i guess

I really wouldn't bother, you're making work for yourself, making that right would be a minefield electronically. Simplify as much as you can

 

[Hutchie]

and im still using the water temp controled idle valve

 

[dangle172]

I really wouldn't bother, you're making work for yourself, making that right would be a minefield electronically. Simplify as much as you can

I thought that was simple and no new electronics needed. I'm not wanting to take a standard one apart, just butcher the casing abit and remove the old butterfly. Ill have to get some pic's up of the plan!

 

[sideways danny]

I thought that was simple and no new electronics needed. I'm not wanting to take a standard one apart, just butcher the casing abit and remove the old butterfly. Ill have to get some pic's up of the plan!

you're going to need new management anyway. stock ECU will NOT do an adequate job

 

[dangle172]

So i couldn't use my old ECU and get it re-mapped? More homework needed i think

 

[dangle172]

Right I'm gonna pull my finger out and buy some bodies to convert. Iv found these:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Kawasaki-ZX63...em&pt=UK_Motorcycle_Parts&hash=item58835b1b40


Dose anyone know if they'll be fit for purpose?

They look like there OK but I'm not sure on the bore size

 

[sideways danny]

probably a bit small being for a 600. I'd think they're most likely 38s

 

[Russ_16v]

They look proper tiny! Any info on size mate?

 

[sideways danny]

These would be a better place to start

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/SUZUKI-GSXR10...em&pt=UK_Motorcycle_Parts&hash=item2eacb31f8c

 

[Russ_16v]

Looks a lot better those

 

[dangle172]

Splendid Danny, Ill be putting a bid on these me thinks!!!

Quick question tho, will the injectors holes need bored out to fit Megane injectors?