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massiveCoRbyn

ClioSport Club Member
  Several
Love this thread, nice to read about the car in detail.

A shame about the issues, hopefully be sorted soon.
 
  172 Cup, Williams
Just read this thread from start to finish, what a great read. I love your attention to detail, especially since as noted from your early posts some of these parts may be coming off again once you start racing .
BTW its never OCD its always close attention to detail . You can never have too much of that.
 

robzracing

ClioSport Club Member
Just read this thread from start to finish, what a great read. I love your attention to detail, especially since as noted from your early posts some of these parts may be coming off again once you start racing .
BTW its never OCD its always close attention to detail . You can never have too much of that.
Thanks pal. Nice to know someone's reading it! I like your thinking per Attention to Detail. Perhaps I'll start calling it ATD instead.
 
  dan's cast offs.
oil leak could be the main bearing cap not sealed properly rather than crank seal? pretty hard to c**k up putting a seal in.
 

robzracing

ClioSport Club Member
oil leak could be the main bearing cap not sealed properly rather than crank seal? pretty hard to c**k up putting a seal in.

That’s what I thought initially but according to Mark Fish that seal is one that shouldn’t be pushed in flush with the face otherwise the back edge pushes out of the back. So someone who perhaps isn’t familiar with an F4R engine could easily make this mistake.
Either way hopefully they’ll take responsibility for it.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
  172 Cup, Williams
Shouldn't be engine out but is definitely gearbox out which isn't too much hassle especially on a ramp.
Thats good news then.
I have to say I feel very lucky as I have just carried out a first start (after rebuild) on my Williams engine, it started first time and apart from a few coolant leaks which were easy to sort, its all gone well so far.
I have just realised that I have a convienient memory .
I did have an oil leak initially which we traced to the oil pressure guage sender at the back of the engine.

I had stupidly put it back on with the original sealing washer. Easy fix but what an absolute bast**d to get to.
 

robzracing

ClioSport Club Member
Gearbox came off today and we replaced the main seal which Mark Fish confirmed was the culprit having been pushed in too far. New clutch arrives tomorrow and then it will go back together with a new release bearing and some fresh mineral oil ready for the final power runs. So we're still aiming for Silverstone on the 6th May with a test day there on the 4th.
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Brucefil

ClioSport Club Member
  Renault sport Clio
Gearbox came off today and we replaced the main seal which Mark Fish confirmed was the culprit having been pushed in too far. New clutch arrives tomorrow and then it will go back together with a new release bearing and some fresh mineral oil ready for the final power runs. So we're still aiming for Silverstone on the 6th May with a test day there on the 4th.
View attachment 1363729 View attachment 1363730 View attachment 1363731
I'm aiming at the 4th and 5th at Phillip island. I really think our cars are sister cars.....

3 x 13 racing. 3 x the luck
 

robzracing

ClioSport Club Member
Another step forward today, with the car now back together again geometry and corner-weighting were done today.
Still have the EPAS gremlin to sort out and now as the fire extinguisher regs have changed this year I now have to install a whole new extinguisher system as nothing new is compatible with my current system.
It's going to be tight to be ready for Silverstone on the 4th for testing!
Rolling road for final power runs is booked for Tuesday and then it's home for the final list to work through.
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Brucefil

ClioSport Club Member
  Renault sport Clio
If you are able to what is the total weight without driver of the car?

3 x 13 racing. 3 x the luck
 

Akay

ClioSport Club Member
  Clubman Cooper S
Have you got any pics of how you routed your brakelines internally? Just on with doing mine and could do with a guide before i bang any holes in!
 

robzracing

ClioSport Club Member
Yeah I'm on with fitting mine room if you have any tips on fitting/bleeding please feel free to share 😂
Fitting is straight forward enough although slightly different connections depending on whether you have a Cup master cylinder. And if you are having a bias valve check your pipe runs before installing it. I mounted mine beside the handbrake initially, only to find the line from the MC wouldn't reach so I had to move it forward.

Original position
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Revised position
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As for bleeding; best to pressure bleed if you can as there's a LOT of air to get out. (although I had all new brakes as well which didn't help.)

Good luck!
 

robzracing

ClioSport Club Member
Completely forgot to update this last week and rather a lot has happened since!
After finishing up at Mark Fish's with Gearbox back in and geometry and corner weighting sorted I next saw the car when I picked it up to take straight to Track n Road in Rainham for it's second stint on the rollers.
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After another couple of hours the mapping was finished and I'm pleased to say the engine looks like it's going to be good. It's been mapped initially quite safely, with standard timing and a rev limit of 8200rpm. It made decent enough horsepower and torque but once it's loosened up I'll get it back to them to have a play with advancing the timing to see where we can get to.

So after that it was back home to start working through my list. We have taken the plunge and booked onto the race at Silverstone on Sunday the 6th with a day of testing this coming Friday.
So over the last weekend I installed the new extinguisher system which was a far bigger task than I expected. It's an 8 nozzle system which I'm sure is a bit overkill, but I suppose it's better than just the 2 we had before.

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After this I decided to get to the bottom of the non-working EPAS. After a couple of emails with the chap in Portugal who makes the controllers I finally nailed the problem down to a broken wire inside the insulation running to the control knob. Swapped out the wire and bingo! All working.
Next was an adjustment to the seating position and installation of some new 6 point harnesses and we can finally go racing.

New tow straps to fitted to the front and then it's just a final spanner check and start pulling all the spares together to take with us.
With a new engine and completely new suspension Friday is going to be interesting. I'll try and keep this updated as we go, but if not there will be a report on the weekend once I'm back.

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robzracing

ClioSport Club Member
Just returned from a great weekend at Silverstone. We arrived early Friday morning for a day of testing and having never raced at Silverstone before we had a tall mountain to climb!
The morning was spent both learning the track and getting used to the car and it's new suspension. The engine seemed to be running fine albeit a bit spluttery low down and then after about 17 laps we started suffering bad fuel surge. From a brimmed tank ths was a bit worrying. Either the car was drinking an enormous amount of fuel or there was a more serious problem. Either way, wouldn't get through a race with it like this.
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We were sharing a garage with several other Clios and their drivers so the conversations began about what could be causing the issue.
In hindsight we probably should have spent more time investigating on Friday but as one of our main priorities was to learn the circuit we spent the rest of the day just keeping the car brimmed.
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We came away from Friday feeling much more confident about the track but slightly unsure about the car. The coughing and spluttering had not improved and this was odd as it hadn't run like that at all on the dyno so I was putting it down to the G forces causing the fueling problem.
Our race wasn't until Sunday so Saturday we had a day to wander the paddock and take in some great racing of a complete assortment of cars from 60s classics through 70s, 80s and 90s and all experiencing the highs and lows that racing brings.
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This MG was a mate of mine, on it's first outing after spending £10k on a new engine. This shot was at the end of qualifying but in the race the bottom end expired after 7 laps. He wasn't a happy bunny!
Sunday morning arrived and we made the decision to investigate the fuel surge in more detail. Qualifying wasn't until 11.40 so we had time.
We started by removing the in tank pump, as someone had suggested one of the pipes in it could be split hence drawing in air once the fuel dropped below a certain point.
What we discovered in the tank was quite shocking. Years ago I had fitted Demon Tweeks "easy pour" fuel tank baffles. These are small perforated aluminium balls that are designed to be fed into the tank through the filler neck. (although that would take hours!)
What we found was that they had left thousands of tiny punch squares at the bottom of the tank clearly from the manufacturing process of perforating the aluminium.
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How the car ran at all was a miracle. The small swirl pot at the bottom of the pump was packed full of them. (no photo unfortunately as I was in shock!)
So with qualifying looming I had to get my arm in to a tank full of fuel and try and fish out as much as I could.
We swapped the pump for a spare although it was an old one which I had been experimenting with installing a Walboro pump in so I was keeping my fingers crossed!
With everything back together we headed into qualifying.
In quali the car ran nicely for the first 4 laps and I was starting to build up speed until it all of a sudden misfired. As it was on the last bend I was able to peel straight into the pits. The misfire wasn't like the fuel surge and my first thought was coil pack.
With cars flying past and the clock ticking I jumped out and changed the coil pack while Ryan my race partner jumped in to do his stint.
Ryan managed 2 laps before the misfire returned and by then quali had finished.
So we qualified a dissapointing 32nd out of 45 when we knew the times we were doing on Friday should have had us up around 19th or so.

Back in the garage more head scratching ensued.

We decided to clean the original pump and put that back in the tank, checked the inline fuel filter and have another look at the coil pack.
After the tank was done, (with a few more baffles and crap removed) I went about checking the connection on the coil pack. That was when I got a huge shock from it which defintely didn't seem right.
With other friends and racers gathered round someone more experienced than me noticed that the car seemed to drop onto 3 cylinders on idle sporadically. We swapped back to the other coil but it continued to do it. Then, just to be sure he went and got his own spare coilpack. Bingo! it worked thank god.

So we made it to the race and the only unknown was whether we would still be plagued by fuel surge before the end.

Ryan started and in 5 laps was up to 26th. As the pit window opened we brought him in for me to do my stint to the end of the race. Driver change was not the quickest as we hadn't had time to practice with all the other dramas going on and then to make matters worse the car wouldn't restart.
After a push start I got going again but we had dropped back down to 36th and were a lap down.
But despite that, the car was running great. I proceeded to reel in plenty of places and ended up battling with the same 2 or 3 cars until the end of the race. (Only later did I discover that they were a lap ahead!) But we finished in 24th and the fuel surge only started to show itself on the last 2 laps. The suspension needs much more tuning as I was being mugged at the corners by slower cars and then just cruising past them on the straights!
Plenty to do before Oulton on the 2nd June!
finishing.jpg
 

John Lindsay

ClioSport Club Member
  PH2 RS182
Good to see you’ve finally had some successful use from the car Rob!

What’s the spec of your engine now? I can’t find the previous post!
 

robzracing

ClioSport Club Member
Good to see you’ve finally had some successful use from the car Rob!

What’s the spec of your engine now? I can’t find the previous post!
Thanks John. Makes all the work worth it!

The engine has been built with PEC race pistons and rods to 12.5:1 compression so not too silly. Bottom end has been dynamically balanced and fitted with lightweight pulleys. The head is pretty standard but running Supertec valves and springs, non VVT CAT Cams and Pure Motorsport's vernier pulleys. At the moment it's on standard timing and mapped to 8200rpm so there's plenty more in it. Although the Jenvey ITBs don't have a very long intake length which is ultimately going to restrict peak power. At the moment I want to consentrate on racing a reliable car, so the next step is fuel tank and swirlpot to overcome the surge issues we were having at Silverstone.
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robzracing

ClioSport Club Member
Work continues on the fuel system.
Received a new (2nd hand) tank and ordered some yellow baffle foam which I've cut into cubes.
I've had some ALuminium cut ready to mount the swirlpot assembly in the wheel well and then some cut to cover it. All the hose fittings arrived in the week so I removed the old tank (not a nice job as it still had about 30ltrs of fuel in it) and began working out routing the hoses.
More work to do this weekend as the car is booked back on the dyno next Thursday.

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I would have liked to cut this to fit exactly in the tank but as you can see, the inside of the tank is not a simple shape!
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Amazing how quickly the fuel pump clogged again during the race at Silverstone!
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Old tank took ages to drain and remove
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Also this week, in an attempt to help with the hot-start issue. New coil pack and leads fitted plus a bit of heat sheilding.
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robzracing

ClioSport Club Member
So last week, after completing the swirl pot assembly the car went back on the rollers for a bit of fettling.

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It was booked to go on at 5.30pm last Thursday but this rather nice Paul Stevens retro Porsche was only just getting strapped down.

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So finally at 10pm they started on the Clio! These guys put the hours in when they need to!

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....and what should have been a "bit of fettling" ended up being a complete remap. It seems that the previous fuel issues must have been affecting the fuel delivery because all of a sudden the car was running way too rich throughout the entire rev range.
I finally got home at 12.30 the next morning but happy that the car made an extra 7bhp.

It's quite unnerving to stand so close to the engine that you built yourself being run up to 8000rpm!




So with Oulton Park looming this coming weekend I need to crack on with the swirl pot cover which is under way and nearly finished. And as the alternator was sounding a bit suspect on the rollers and the belt was starting to get very squeeky I've ordered a new one as a precaution.

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template made before cutting the aluminium

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Unfortunately the swirl pot is a tad too high for the wheel well. Cue some imaginative thinking.

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This aluminium dome is used for dropping flue liners down chimneys and cost just £10 on EBay. Just need to bond it to the cover (as I don't have a tig welder or time to take it to someone at the moment)
 

robzracing

ClioSport Club Member
Seems like an age since the car went back on the dyno. Last week was spent making final preparations for the race meeting at Oulton Park.
The bulk of the work was in completing the cover for the swirl pot assembly which is where I left you last time.

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After cutting the Aluminium to size you can see here why the dome is needed.
It was then a case of drilling and rivnutting the boot floor to fix the sheet down. Some 10mm adhesive backed foam filled in the spaces between the rasied moulding on the floor and then the dome was attached with black silicon after a quick polish.
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Pleased with how it came out and thankfully passed scrutineering at the weekend.

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After collecting the trailer last Thursday afternoon, the van was loaded and car was strapped down ready for the 3 and a half hour drive to Oulton which started at 4am Friday morning.
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On arriving at Oulton it was nice to see they had gone to the effort of colourcoding the bins for me!

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Having only ever driven at Oulton on one track day 2 years ago I was expecting a steep learning curve ahead of me. But fortunately the driver paying to partner me this weekend is an extremely accomplished racer, Paul Mensley who has won at Oulton on several occasions. He was keen to get a race in as he is still building his Bathurst Cosworth 500 so hadn't raced this season yet and his brother is a front-runner in our series also in a Clio. (albeit 100kg lighter than mine!)

So we had Friday to start dialling the suspension in as well as learn the track.

Thankfully the car ran faultlessly and the sun shone all day so we were able to concentrate on the job in hand.
Paul's first impression of the car's setup was along the lines of, "It's like driving a f****ing blancmange!" So we set about stiffening up the dampers and also making some adjustments to the camber and setting tyre pressures more accurately.
It was a pretty full on day so I had little chance to take any photos unfortunately.
As other racers arrived throughout the day the usual camaraderie and banter ensued, culminating in about 10 of us going out for dinner that night and eventually crashing at the hotel at about 12.30. Not ideal the night before a race although I heard a few kept going until 1.30!

The morning of race day I opened the curtains to a very wet Oulton. Not what I wanted as I have had very little running in the wet and my last wet race at Cadwell ended in tears.
Still we managed to get to the track in time for signing on and scrutineering fueled by an all you can eat breakfast at the hotel.
Quali was at 9.50 and although the rain had eased off and several quali sessions had already taken place, the track was still very damp. So I took the car out and eased it around for a few laps slowly building speed and confidence until the rain began to fall again.
After a lockup coming down towards Hizzy's and having to run down the escape road I took the car in for Paul to work his magic.

2 corners in to his outlap he locked up and ended in the gravel bringing out the safety car! This was not in the plan.

However the nice marshalls pulled him out and let him get on his way again as there was no damage to the car. But he only had time for one lap and now in pretty treacherous conditions he still managed pull us up another 8 places!
So we qualified right in the middle of the pack in 18th out of a grid of 31.

During our checks over the car afterwards we discovered that the front brake caliper bolts had all come loose and the bottom one on both sides had fallen out completely! Everything was loose and this explained the locking up issues. I can only imagine that I had never fully tightened them during assembly because I have never had this happen before.
The pads fell out looking like this!
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Clearly the brakes had been overheating and the piston dust seals had been fried to a crisp too.

Luckily I had a part used set of DS1.11 pads on board so we banged them in, fitted some new bolts (with threadlock!) and a quick spin around the padock proved that all was well again.

So at 3pm I lined up on the grid on a thankfully dry track!

Sadly the GoPro stopped working at the last second so all I have is footage from the VBox which is not the best resolution but better than nothing. Personally I didn't have much of a race as the safety car took up a good proportion of my stint. But I had a good start making up 10 places on the first lap and leaving Paul to do the rest.



As in the previous post it was a great result as far as I was concerned. First bit of silverware for me which I will take anyway I can!
And a weekend of learning a lot more about the car and a plan for some improvements before Brands Hatch mid July.
New Ultraleggeras ordered (as the start of the diet). New brake seal kit and new DS1.11 pads ordered. And a conversation with AST today will see the front coilovers going down to them for stiffer springs and re-valving / shimming. Oh, and 2 new sets of AO50s also on the way.

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robzracing

ClioSport Club Member
Last couple of a weeks has been hectic with work but plans have been made and things ordered. One interesting experiment which some of you may have seen on FB was the weighing of all my wheels with the tyres removed.
When I bought the car 4 or so years ago it came with 2 sets of Speedline Corse wheels. These look great but I always knew they were heavy. they are a wheel designed for rallying after all. Since then I've accumulated a few other wheels with the purchase of a couple of other race cars and I've tried to keep a decent selection to use as spares.
After ordering the ultraleggeras I was keen to know exactly how much weight I was saving and the result was quite impressive.

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As you can see that's a saving of over 4kg per corner which is a lot in terms of unsprung weight.
In addition I also weighed my ProRace 2.1s (newly powder coated to match the Ultraleggeras)

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Still a good saving. And while I was at it I also weighed a phase 1 O.Z alloy (7.61kg) and also a different Speedline Corse which had come with the car supposedly Magnesium alloy but seemingly not quite at 7.25kg. Still a lot lighter than the standard Speedlines, so my wet tyres will be going on them which are currently also being powder coated in a surprise colour to be revealed later.

In other news AST have had my front coilovers to install new 130N springs and re-valve them accordingly. At the same time they gave them a bit of a service and returned them very quickly. This now of course means I need to have the car corner weighted again, so that's back on the list.

Today the brakes got stripped after the loose bolt incident at Oulton. There must have been some serious heat going through them to end up looking like this!

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...and the dust seals were crispy!

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so the brakes were cleaned and repainted and another new set of seals inserted. They were only done in November and the car has done 2 test days and 2 races but I'm sure if they had stayed together this wouldn't have heppened. They will be going back together with threadlock and cap head bolts.

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The wheels will have new AD050 tyres fitted this week and once the suspension and brakes are back in the car it will be time for corner weighting and then hopefully a test day at Brands before the race there on 15th July. Yet again I will have a different partner to race with and again a very experienced racer and engine builder so I'm confident the car should be looked after and hopefullyI'll get more useful feedback.
 
  dan's cast offs.
the magnesium aren't a full magnesium so are heavy ish. i've got a set stashed away. if you hold them by the centre as they would be on the car you can feel how light the rear of the wheel is though.
 

robzracing

ClioSport Club Member
the magnesium aren't a full magnesium so are heavy ish. i've got a set stashed away. if you hold them by the centre as they would be on the car you can feel how light the rear of the wheel is though.
After posting it on FB the general concensus by people who know more about this than me was that there never was a magnesium alloy Cup wheel. But the Cup cars' Speedlines were specified in a unique design that removed a lot more material from the wheel to make them lighter. Mine definitely have less material within the wheel. The spokes are much thinner front to back than the standard ones. Who knows??
 

robzracing

ClioSport Club Member
New tyres fitted today. Yoko AO50s. A lot of racers are moving over to these and are raving about them so it will be interesting to see what they're like. They're not road legal so not a horrendous price either.

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JamesBryan

ClioSport Club Member
I paid £380 per set inc VAT and fitting at Adams and Page in High Wycombe but I get a bit of a discount as they support the CSCC who I race with. Worth asking though!
Also, these are not road legal.

Cheers.

Yeah i was thinking for my track wheels. Need to replace my Direzzas soon and they're £474 with delivery.
 

robzracing

ClioSport Club Member
Been fairly quiet the last week or so. But lots happening this week in the buid up to the race on Sunday.

Brakes and suspension are all back on the car now, along with some slightly bigger spacers on the front and some new 5mm spacers on the rear.

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New ferodo DS1.11s. Apart from the part worn ones we used at Oulton I haven't tried these properly before. Will be interesting to see how they fare against the CLs.
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130N springs and revalved dampers refitted.
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And today I collected my newly powdercoated Speedlines that will be my wet set. Something a bit different but matching the car.

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Tomorrow I'm off to Silverstone for another fettle on the dyno. Different tuner this time so it will be interesting to see what happens. The map is very safe at the moment and in theory the engine is good for quite a bit more than it's currently running but I'm not sure we'll have time tomorrow to turn the taps up much because advancing the timing with the cams will mean removing the engine mount etc so we'll have to see.
While I'm there we'll also corner weight and set up the geo again.

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On the trailer ready to set off in the morning.
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On Wednesday we're off to Brands for testing and hopefully that will be it until the race on Sunday.

Finally; in other news I've just helped a very old friend of mine renew the braking system on this beast. New Wilwood 4pots and 2 peice discs on the front, new servo and master cylinder and new lines at the front. New drums and pistons on the rear.
The engine was built by Janspeed a few years ago and runs around 300bhp. For a car that weighs 940kg, that makes it blinking quick!
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