The dci smoke machine

[Kermit the Van]

After tea I popped out to change the fuel filter and top up the oil. When I changed my oil & filter a few weeks back I put in the amount specified in the Haynes Book of Lies, but this only took it to half way on the dipstick. Tonight I topped it up to a few mil below max.

Fuel filter changed and primed, oil topped up, I took it for a couple of mile run. Three times I took it up to 3750-4000 rpm in second. The fourth time all hell broke loose.

Revs kept on climbing, a slight metallic jingling sound followed, (like loose change in your pocket). Dipping the clutch did nothing. Parking up and removing the key did nothing. The only way to stop the engine was to put it in 4th from a stand still to get it to stall. And the smoke ! There was an awful lot of grey smoke.

After leaving it for 20 minutes I restarted the engine, but unsurprisingly the same thing happened again, so I quickly shut it off via the same method.

The good news is it hasn’t lost any coolant. The cam & aux belts are still in tact, (from what little I can see of the cam belt).
The oil level has dipped a bit, by about 1/4 on the dipstick.
No obvious signs of damage. Even the oil doesn’t smell burnt.

My guess is that the vehicle has the incorrect dipstick fitted, so I’ve unknowingly over-filled it, (about 7.5 litres has gone into it). The question is, what damage has been caused ? Will draining a couple of litres from the sump fix the issue ? If I do that, what will happen when I restart it ?

The vehicle is currently parked 0.8 mile from home. I don’t have home start, so a mates coming round in the morning to tow me back home.

I guess the first job is going to be getting a new dipstick from Renault so I know I’ve actually got the correct one.

Any ideas how bad this is going to be ?

Cheers.

 

[Djw John]

Really depends how long it's run on for.
Get it drained, Chuck the correct amount of cheap oil and see is my thinking. It sounds like it'll be fine to me though

 

[Brigsy]

Check the turbo has not decided to dump a load of oil into the inlet

 

[Martin_172]

sounds like the turbo has went pop and its suffered from "diesel run away" where it runs on its own oil, hence why when you turn off the ignition and the injectors stop pumping fuel, it keeps running

 

[Kermit the Van]

Good call on the turbo actually Brigsey. That looks like it might be a bit of a swine of a job. Still, no doubt easier than replacing an entire engine.

I’ll be keeping my fingers very firmly crossed.

 

[Martin_172]

shouldn't have done it any harm, the harm is done when people don't know how to shut it off and leave it running and smoking until it uses up all its oil and seizes the engine!

 

[Kermit the Van]

sounds like the turbo has went pop and its suffered from "diesel run away" where it runs on its own oil, hence why when you turn off the ignition and the injectors stop pumping fuel, it keeps running

Yeah, definitely the running on it’s own oil. I’ve seen the same thing happen on a 1000 mile old Citroen Xantia TD many years ago, hence intentionally quickly stalling it once I saw it was still running minus key in ignition.

I had wondered if I’d spilt a bit of oil up a breather when topping it up with oil, but there is no breather hose near the top of the oil filler neck.

 

[Martin_172]

yeah definitely sounds like the turbo has been ready to go and a few higher rpm pulls has pushed it over the edge

 

[Kermit the Van]

shouldn't have done it any harm, the harm is done when people don't know how to shut it off and leave it running and smoking until it uses up all its oil and seizes the engine!

It was the slight metallic jingling sound that has worried me the most. Although I didn’t notice it when I very briefly started it the 2nd time.

I’m chuckling now, but I suspect my laughs won’t last long, but the Rev counter needle went all the way round to the stop. The only thing preventing the Rev counter from going any further was the fact that it had run out of room on the gauge !

It was like my dci had kicked in its inner VTEC.

 

[Kermit the Van]

Really depends how long it's run on for.
Get it drained, Chuck the correct amount of cheap oil and see is my thinking. It sounds like it'll be fine to me though

Distance wise it ran on for about 100-150 metres. Time wise, I’d estimate 30-45 seconds. I realised quite quickly it was running on it’s own engine oil.

The second start-up was for 10-25 seconds at the most.

 

[Kermit the Van]

yeah definitely sounds like the turbo has been ready to go and a few higher rpm pulls has pushed it over the edge

Would damage be obvious via the amount of free-play in the main shaft ?

 

[Kermit the Van]

Distance wise it ran on for about 100-150 metres. Time wise, I’d estimate 30-45 seconds. I realised quite quickly it was running on it’s own engine oil.

The second start-up was for 10-25 seconds at the most.

I meant 10-15 seconds.

 

[Martin_172]

Would damage be obvious via the amount of free-play in the main shaft ?

im not sure ive never had one off that's been pumping oil in to see, I would imagine if you pull the boost pipe off it will be full of oil though! tell tale sign

 

[Kermit the Van]

im not sure ive never had one off that's been pumping oil in to see, I would imagine if you pull the boost pipe off it will be full of oil though! tell tale sign

Thanks Martin.

 

[Brigsy]

Good call on the turbo actually Brigsey. That looks like it might be a bit of a swine of a job. Still, no doubt easier than replacing an entire engine.

I’ll be keeping my fingers very firmly crossed.

Turbo is easy enough to swap, you must use a 6 point socket on the nuts though, as very easy to round off which would mean engine out. Pull the pipes off and have a look at it, the turbos are weak sadly and do fail quite often. Its defo runaway though.

 

[Kermit the Van]

Turbo is easy enough to swap, you must use a 6 point socket on the nuts though, as very easy to round off which would mean engine out. Pull the pipes off and have a look at it, the turbos are weak sadly and do fail quite often. Its defo runaway though.

Thanks for the tip on using hex only sockets.

 

[Crayola]

Sounds like the turbo has shat itself mate

I bet the inducer has decided to say bye bye and started sucking oil into the engine which will cause it to run on it's own bodily fluids

 

[Crayola]

I've got a dCi 100 turbo here too if you fancy that you want a turbo that wont blow up of you look at it with a weird glance?

 

[Kermit the Van]

I've got a dCi 100 turbo here too if you fancy that you want a turbo that wont blow up of you look at it with a weird glance?

View attachment 1418208

Cheers Kyle. Bit busy now. I’ll try and PM you later.

 

[Crayola]

Cheers Kyle. Bit busy now. I’ll try and PM you later.

Not a problem mate. If you're gonna get a 75/80 turbo then they're yellow tag. Makes it easier to tell if it's the right one

 

[gez 172]

I've got a dCi 100 turbo here too if you fancy that you want a turbo that wont blow up of you look at it with a weird glance?

View attachment 1418208

What condition is it in? How much?
I’ve got a 68 campus, which I think has the 100 turbo on it? It is intercooled.

@YorkshireKyle

 

[Crayola]

What condition is it in? How much?
I’ve got a 68 campus, which I think has the 100 turbo on it? It is intercooled.

@YorkshireKyle

Yeah same turbo mate, blue tag KK variant. Decent condition, only had 80k on it, if anything it has a smidge of lateral play but nothing too much to lose sleep over

I've got it on eBay for £65 + £15 postage but I'd do it for £60 posted on here

 

[gez 172]

Yeah same turbo mate, blue tag KK variant. Decent condition, only had 80k on it, if anything it has a smidge of lateral play but nothing too much to lose sleep over

I've got it on eBay for £65 + £15 postage but I'd do it for £60 posted on here

I’ll drop you a PM later buddy!

 

[Kermit the Van]

Yeah same turbo mate, blue tag KK variant. Decent condition, only had 80k on it, if anything it has a smidge of lateral play but nothing too much to lose sleep over

I've got it on eBay for £65 + £15 postage but I'd do it for £60 posted on here

PM sent.

 

[Martin_172]

Ive got a good condition 80hp turbo if your looking to keep running the standard turbo here if you need one

https://www.cliosport.net/threads/clio-dci-80-turbo-£50.826191/

 

[Kermit the Van]

Turbocharger finally removed. It wasn’t the easiest of jobs, but I didn’t expect anything else with a Renault.

The snail / turbo casing was completly filled with oil. I’m wondering if my catalytic converter will be the same ?

 

[Kermit the Van]

Regards my comments on the state of the Cat, the exhaust side of the turbo looks oil free, although where my cat met my downpipe it was oily.

Any thoughts fellas?

 

[Brigsy]

Cat will be fine, as the exhaust side is dry. Must have been on its way for a while and good hard rev has pushed it over the edge

 

[Kermit the Van]

Cat will be fine, as the exhaust side is dry. Must have been on its way for a while and good hard rev has pushed it over the edge

Thanks Brigsy.

I’m in no doubt that your diagnosis is correct, but what makes you say that it must have been on it’s way out for some time ? What are the signs to look for ?

Bearing in mind that I’ve done less than 1000 miles in the van since I got it, so haven’t been able to monitor oil consumption over a prolonged period.

It smoke a little under load, but nothing too severe.

 

[Brigsy]

The seal on the compressor housing has probably been worn for a while and oil spraying into the inlet on boost. It will probably have been smoking a little on boost which can go un noticed unless yor constantly looking in the rear view mirror, my clio dci was the same - smokey on throttle but OK when driving steady prompting a turbo swap recently. I only really noticed it was smoking quite a bit on acceleration when the mrs took it to work one day and was following down the street.

Id not really recommend revving these engines hard up to the govenor all the time as the turbo's are not the strongest, and generally revving the tits off them does not make them go much faster lol. I guess a good flog has pushed it over the edge.

Any play in the turbo shaft ? I have seen the comp seals fail and spray feck loads of oil out with no play too. My mis spent youth blowing turbos up on R5gtt's every 2 mins when i did not know what i was doing give me plenty of experience and drained the bank balance lol.

 

[Kermit the Van]

Thanks Brigsy.

I only had a quick up & down wiggle of the compressor and didn’t immediately notice any play. I’ll have a fore & aft wiggle and closer inspection tonight.

Most of the time in my cars isn’t spent thrashing the living daylights out of them. I have too much mechanical sympathy for that. I guessed that the previous owner just pootled about in it, so thought it would benefit from a few runs up to the higher reaches of the rev range, but at no point did I take it above 4000rpm.

 

[Brigsy]

Itll have been well on its way and that one push has knacked it haha.

 

[Kermit the Van]

Itll have been well on its way and that one push has knacked it haha.

Bugger. Just my luck.

Tentative equiries point to the fact that the Kangoo has a slightly different turbocharger setup to the Clio dci’s, so any tips regarding that would be appreciated.

 

[Martin_172]

that's the same part number as a dci 65 turbo, 5435 970 0000 Borg warner K series.

not a VNT turbo as we thought when you messaged

 

[Kermit the Van]

that's the same part number as a dci 65 turbo, 5435 970 0000 Borg warner K series.

not a VNT turbo as we thought when you messaged

Thanks Martin. I’m out at the moment, but I’ll double check the part number on the casing when I get backs later on.

Which begs the question, are the 80 / 100 turbos going to be compatible ? If not, besides the manifold, what else would need to be changed ?

Cheers.

 

[Martin_172]

Thanks Martin. I’m out at the moment, but I’ll double check the part number on the casing when I get backs later on.

Which begs the question, are the 80 / 100 turbos going to be compatible ? If not, besides the manifold, what else would need to be changed ?

Cheers.

the 65 and 80hp turbos are compatible but not the 100. I've just sold my 80hp turbo too I done a price drop on eBay after you said yours was blue label and it sold! they must have done them in both yellow and blue label depending on the supplier or something!

 

[Kermit the Van]

the 65 and 80hp turbos are compatible but not the 100. I've just sold my 80hp turbo too I done a price drop on eBay after you said yours was blue label and it sold! they must have done them in both yellow and blue label depending on the supplier or something!

Bugger. Any tips on what makes a good used turbo besides the obvious lack of vane damage or excessive end float ?

 

[Brigsy]

Check the exhaust wheel is dry and no oil on it, any oil will indicate a smoker. Can only check play in the shaft and hope the inlet seal is ok.

 

[Kermit the Van]

Zero fore & aft or lateral play on the compressor shaft, but the casing is full of oil.

The part number on my casing is;
5439 101 5080 (inside the diamond at the far end of the part numbers is ‘A85’) and this turbo has a blue tag.

Just thought I’d mention this incase someone else stumbles across this thread having the same issues.

I’m going to order a dipstick from Renault so I’m 100% certain that I have the correct one, (I don’t think I do at the moment, considering there’s nearly 8 litres of oil in it), order various new seals and gaskets, new oil filter and oil, and try and find a (fingers crossed) replacement turbocharger. I might as well strip and clean the EGR whilst I’m at it as well.

How easy is it to retro-fit an intercooler to these ? Has anyone done it and what parts are needed ?

Cheers for your help fellas

 

[Martin_172]

There was in in the scrappy had an intercooler last week when I was there so some must have had them so should be a straight swap. I've fitted a few dci80 coolers to dci65 clios easy swap