Stopped for 3/4 front plate

[Adam.]

My number plate is 101mm high, the smallest legal plate you can have

Got a picture compared to a normal one?

 

[Chip-mk1]

For vehicles with new or replacement number plates fitted from 1 September 2001, "3-line" number plates are no longer permitted (except where the vehicle was first registered before 1 January 1973). In addition, the characters on number plates purchased from 1 September 2001, will need to meet the following specifications.
n
Character height 79mm
n
Character width (except the figure 1 or letter I) 50mm
n
Character stroke 14mm
n
Space between characters 11mm
n
Space between groups 33mm
n
Top, bottom and side margins (minimum) 11mm
n
Vertical space between groups 19mm


My number plate is 101mm high, the smallest legal plate you can have

My understanding is that while yours meets those rules on the characters themselves and their spacing, as of 2003 the legal height for a numberplate is 112mm still though as far as I am aware.
You are allowed a border of upto 6mm which means that it takes the remainding size of the plate down to about the size you are stating, but that doesnt change the fact that the actual physical plate has to be 112mm in the first place, unless you are allowed to class trimmed off plate in the same way as border?

Going by your logic, I would be allowed to trim the ends of my plate right down so it was only a few inches wide if I had a very short number plate, in fact if you take the extra example of a single digit plate, it would only need to be 22mm wider than the single character, and I dont believe for a second that is true, you seem to be taking just the character rules and thinking that dictates the size of the allowed plate?

 

[plymcl172]

Why people fit smaller plates is beyond me

You are asking for un wanted attention from the law in my eyes

Give the police bait and they will.take it

 

[Adam.]

My understanding is that while yours meets those rules on the characters themselves and their spacing, as of 2003 the legal height for a numberplate is 112mm still though as far as I am aware.
You are allowed a border of upto 6mm which means that it takes the remainding size of the plate down to about the size you are stating, but that doesnt change the fact that the actual physical plate has to be 112mm in the first place, unless you are allowed to class trimmed off plate in the same way as border?

Going by your logic, I would be allowed to trim the ends of my plate right down so it was only a few inches wide if I had a very short number plate, in fact if you take the extra example of a single digit plate, it would only need to be 22mm wider than the single character, and I dont believe for a second that is true, you seem to be taking just the character rules and thinking that dictates the size of the allowed plate?

According to the The Road Vehicles (Display of Registration Marks) Regulations 2001 there is nothing that dictates the minimum with appart from charachters and borders.

Or maybe I've missed it?

 

[Wick]

Just unlucky really. My vx plate is tiny. If you have one you take your chances in my opinion.

 

[C2kev]

when i was pulled over for my 3/4 plate (didn't get fined) the traffic copper gave me an official dvla print out stating all the info above. He agreed that 101mm high would be legal, however, i never thought to ask about the width/length. A shorter plate would look odd anyway

 

[lovejoy]

laws are laws unfortunately, i know that the smaller plates may look better but is it really worth the cost for small plate, fine if caught and replacement. not really, also a friend of mine once crashed his car (evo 6) which had a small plate on it which upon inspection by the insurers was deemed to invalidate his insurance, big mistake! I expect that if you checked with your insurance companies they may also concur with this.

 

[C2kev]

Got a picture compared to a normal one?

3/4plate

101mm plate..........11mm smaller than standard, cant really tell on this pic but i will get a better one when its light

full size

 

[Chip-mk1]

when i was pulled over for my 3/4 plate (didn't get fined) the traffic copper gave me an official dvla print out stating all the info above. He agreed that 101mm high would be legal, however, i never thought to ask about the width/length. A shorter plate would look odd anyway

Im not entirely sure that your (and that copper, and also some other people on the net)'s interpretation of the rules is correct, as like I say that would mean very short plates were legal too, including some as short as only about 3" for very short reg marks, and I dont beleive that to be the case.
There are seperate rules for the size of the backing as far as im aware (as per the 2003 rules I quoted)

 

[C2kev]

yes you may be correct. My advice now, after being pulled and let off with the fine, is DO NOT fit a 3/4 plate! i actually think they look quite chavvy now seeing the ones driving round with them

 

[not normal dan]

Had one for years on all my ph 2 sports an never had any grief but end of the day there illegal, an do not meet requirements of the law.

Personally i'd now remove it as said officer will no doubt be keeping his eye out.

 

[UKBraderz]

May sound harsh but you put it on knowing its illegal so imo it serves you right lol..

+1

 

[JHead]

You also need to have where they were printed on them to be legal. (or so my dad says, who owns a car dealership, so i'm guessing fairly reliable)

 

[VR46-G@Z]

It's the law but it's bollox...... where I live we have idiotic sportsbike riders flying round here there and everywhere doing stupid speeds in the summer with no plate on the front of their bike and is not required, how does that work??!! The law sucks but hey what can you do! Cars look so much better without a front plate...... Inconsistencies like this get right up my nose, does a slightly smaller plate really make any difference...................:banghead:

 

[SuperJ]

3/4 plates look crap. Mine is the same size as the recess so noticeable smaller than standard but looks perfect imo. Been on for about two years in which time I've been stopped a few times and its never been mentioned.

 

[Adam.]

Here's another document by DVLA : http://www.direct.gov.uk/prod_consu...n/@motor/documents/digitalasset/dg_067666.pdf

Again all it states is 11mm border. Nothing about minimum width or height although the height of the letters + border make it pretty much the size it is.

FWIW I had a plate like this on both my Leons. I spoke to the traffics one night who said the width is fine as the border meets the requirement of 11mm all around. The only thing wrong is the lack of postcode and BS stamp.

 

[VR46-G@Z]

Bloody nice Leon is that!!!

 

[Chip-mk1]

Here's another document by DVLA : http://www.direct.gov.uk/prod_consu...n/@motor/documents/digitalasset/dg_067666.pdf

Again all it states is 11mm border. Nothing about minimum width or height although the height of the letters + border make it pretty much the size it is.

"F" is a legal number plate, so if you go by the rules you have posted and just assume that it implies the size of the background too you could have a plate less than 3" wide, does that seem like it would be legal to you?

 

[Sunglasses_Ron]

Because he is probably interested to see if you are a copper, as he has probably made the assumption that only someone who has been through the police brain washing scheme could possibly feel this was a good way to spend tax payers money?

I'm not feeling the love from you Chip

I'm gonna give ya a big cuddle at CSS to show you that some of us are lovely.

 

[Chip-mk1]

I'm not feeling the love from you Chip

I'm gonna give ya a big cuddle at CSS to show you that some of us are lovely.

One of my good mates is a copper, so I know its not all that are idiots mate, but you have to admit its an above average number compared to most professions!

 

[Sunglasses_Ron]

One of my best mates is a copper, and she even has epic boobies as well, so I know its not all that are idiots mate, but you have to admit its an above average number compared to most professions!

I fully agree that there's an above average number of bell ends in traffic but they probably make up about 5% of all police officers.

And I notice you haven't dismissed out of hand the offer of a cuddle at CSS lol

I have epic moobies

 

[Wick]

Flol. That's brightened up my morning!

To everyone saying "does it really matter", how would you feel if someone hit your car, or worse a family member in a hit and run, and witnesses didn't catch the plate because it was too small to read.

That's me playing devils adv as I also have a small plate.

 

[Addicted]

Flol. That's brightened up my morning!

To everyone saying "does it really matter", how would you feel if someone hit your car, or worse a family member in a hit and run, and witnesses didn't catch the plate because it was too small to read.

That's me playing devils adv as I also have a small plate.

I do agree, but the lettering on 3/4 plates is the same size don't forget

 

[Wick]

No it's not. It's scaled down in line with the dimensions of the plate.

 

[Chip-mk1]

No it's not. It's scaled down in line with the dimensions of the plate.

Depends on the plate, some people still use 79mm letters but trim the plates off.

 

[Adam.]

"F" is a legal number plate, so if you go by the rules you have posted and just assume that it implies the size of the background too you could have a plate less than 3" wide, does that seem like it would be legal to you?

Yes as per the DVLA guides and everything I can find on the matter including the The Road Vehicles (Display of Registration Marks) Regulations 2001 the only requirement is the letter sizing and minimum border.

Again, happy to be proved wrong if someone can find something that actually states the minimum width requirement of the plate...

 

[Addicted]

Depends on the plate, some people still use 79mm letters but trim the plates off.

Exactly!

 

[Chip-mk1]

To be legal the backing has to be bought from an approved supplier, and all approved suppliers have to supply to standard sizes as far as I am aware.
I believe its a part of BS AU 145d that the numberplate must be 520mm wide, but I dont have a copy of the regs to hand to prove it to you with.
How anyone thinks its legal to get a plate that is approved because it is the right size but then trim it down is beyond me TBH, I just cant imagine why people assume thats legal, but on the other hand I cant actually link you to anything categorically stating its not.

 

[Adam.]

Interesting argument chip yet no info to back up your claims.

FYI Signam manufacture shorter plates so you don't need to cut them. Halfords can even order these in for you.

 

[Greeny.]

Yup got the same for one on my old car as well, not had any issues on this car so will keep it on until I do. The issue is that it doesn't use standard size digits, I think they are Irish or something?! Whatever the case they are slightly smaller than standard so hence not legal.

 

[Chip-mk1]

Interesting argument chip yet no info to back up your claims.

Indeed mate, I cant find any legislation one way or the other definitively stating the size of the plates, so like I have said I am making the assumption on the basis that if you are allowed to alter the height to match the size of the lettering (+min border) that would be definition apply to the length as well, and I dont believe a 3" wide plate is going to be considered legal.
I would be happy to be corrected though if you can provide any legislation stating that the size of a BS AU 145d legal backing CAN be trimmed, Ive always taken it as given that if buying a BS approved part, that if you modify it then its not going to be BS con-formative anymore.
So for example I cant find legislation saying that if I buy a BS approved crash helmet, that im not allow to holesaw a 60mm hole in the back of it so my mrs can poke her pony tail through it, but I still dont think that just cause I cant find such legislation saying I cant that it means by default that I can.

FYI Signam manufacture shorter plates so you don't need to cut them. Halfords can even order these in for you.

Halfords sell bulbs that are not legal for road use as well so I wouldnt always assume just cause halfords sell it that its road legal.

I do know that some vehicles have differing laws on plate size when new, small volume jap imports for example like some (maybe all in fact but I know for sure some) of the FQ models of Evo have a different size plate, so it might be that the plates you mention are legal but only on certain cars.

 

[Adam.]

I'm out.

:banghead:

 

[Wick]

Exactly!

That is true actually but they look bloody ugly!

 

[Dymanique06]

Sorry to bump what is a slightly old topic now but I can tell you that what most of you is saying is absolutely correct - there is no legal height or width minimums or maximums, as long as letters and numbers are in the correct font and size and have the specified 11mm space between the edge of the number plate and the letters/numbers, and where there are two groups of numbers, i.e. most numberplates AB12 CDE, the gap between the two groups should be 33mm, as long as your number plate meets these requirements it is legal, yes you might get stopped for it and its a bit of hassle but they cannot do anything about it, unless you are missing BSAU number or postcode of maker etc.

Hope this helps - my source - a friend's dad who is pretty high up within the police and has many many years experience

 

[shandyruss]

In Northern Ireland, quite a few cars drive around with smaller letters. Does anyone know if this is legal in NI as it is not governed by the DVLA. I live in NI and have a 3/4 plate and I have never had any trouble. Sorry to bump!

 

[Chip-mk1]

Good info dynamique06, would be nice to see something official saying the same to settle it once and for all.

 

[Addicted]

So technically the Fancyplates ones are still illegal as they don't have the BSAU number or postcode!

Do they enforce this on older cars (aka ours?) - my original plates didn't have numbers either.

 

[Lal B3N]

So technically the Fancyplates ones are still illegal as they don't have the BSAU number or postcode!

Do they enforce this on older cars (aka ours?) - my original plates didn't have numbers either.

Just make a tiny sticker with the BSAU number on lol.

 

[Dymanique06]

Good info dynamique06, would be nice to see something official saying the same to settle it once and for all.

Unfortunately I think it would be very difficult to obtain anything of the sort, everytime I have tried to get anything official about it I just get pointed to the relevant document that relates to UK number plate law, imagine if they had a law for every single particular possibility for number plates

So technically the Fancyplates ones are still illegal as they don't have the BSAU number or postcode!

Do they enforce this on older cars (aka ours?) - my original plates didn't have numbers either.

That is correct, from memory, the law says that cars manufactured after 2003 require to have a BSAU number and postcode, and many people see this as it being okay to put a new plate on their prized 2001 car without such information, however what these people overlook is that if you have a new number plate made for your pre 2003 motor then it too must hold BSAU and postcode etc, basically they're not asking everyone to replace their number plates but if you're going to anyway then they do require you have the new legal information on them.

Having said that you'd be pretty unlucky to be done for it, my best friend owned a Corsa C for a year or so which had pressed plates without a BSAU or postcode, his was an 05 reg in black, with loads of irmscher stuff on it, bumpers/skirts/grill/steering wheel/exhaust/tinted windows etc, the thing stood out! He never ever even got stopped by the police, let alone for his number plates. Luck of the draw sometimes

 

[davo172]

No wonder he fined you if you pasted him.

Time to bail.