Still not starting!!!

[Spinksy]

Can any body offer any advice at all about this piece of s**t car of mine?

182

Just replaced the clutch, everything works as it should, I can get all the gears, clutch presses and depresses as normal, crank moves freely, compression seems fine, gearbox moves as normal

Car just won't turn over/fire

Really starting to lose my temper with the f**king thing

Checked all 3 earth points as it was suggested there was an issue there, cleaned them all up and put them back, everything is plugged in, dash lights up as normal but when you turn the key to start it the starter just goes *clunk*

Even had the starter motor of and checked that and when you supply power, and earth and signal it turns

Run out of ideas, worked fine before I took it apart, I have had it apart 3-4 times and checked everything I can, all plugs connected, all bolts tight, all fluids full with fresh fluids

Even put a jump lead cable between engine and negative on the battery to earth it that way, same with gearbox and same thing

Only thing I can think of is a break in the loom wiring? But I really don't wanna piss about replacing that...

Any ideas or anything else I can check?

Thanks

 

[aucky]

Any fault lights now staying on when you turn the key half way?

 

[Dr HMS Derv Destroyer]

You didnt yank on the loom which bolts to the battery tray did you?

Imob ect going out and power getting to coil pack ?

 

[MartinR]

Fuses in fuse box in bay put back in the right place/order.

 

[Spinksy]

Any fault lights now staying on when you turn the key half way?

Just the battery and stop light

Oh and emissions light but that was on before hand

You didnt yank on the loom which bolts to the battery tray did you?

Imob ect going out and power getting to coil pack ?

Moved it a few times but after the ECU was already removed

Immob goes off as normal mate

Fuses in fuse box in bay put back in the right place/order.

Not touched the fuses but will check them all tomorrow, is it possible a blown fuse would cause this issue?

 

[Dr HMS Derv Destroyer]

Check all the basics, make sure the loom isn't broke near the bend bit on , where it mounts to the battery tray. Make sure you haven't bent any ecu pins either

 

[MartinR]

Anything is possible with theses clios.

I done my clutch and gearbox yesterday. Because i ran the car on axle stands before dropping it down and doing up the driveshaft nut. I t spat a stop serv and emissionns light???

Code was wheel speed sensor. So as said anything is possible.

 

[Dan@SJM]

Main feed to the starter is loose I bet.

 

[Spinksy]

Main feed to the starter is loose I bet.

Had it off and back on mate, will check it again when I check the fuses but it's on nice and right

 

[RenMatt]

Try swopping round the small black relays under the engine fuse box

 

[hilldawg172]

Sounds very much like to me like a broken/nicked starter cable to me. Run a jump lead from battery positive to starter main power nut and try it. If it starts you know you have a dodgy cable.

 

[Budgie]

Sounds very much like to me like a broken/nicked starter cable to me. Run a jump lead from battery positive to starter main power nut and try it. If it starts you know you have a dodgy cable.

This.

Live to the starter to rule that out.

You touched the earth by the passenger headlamp?

 

[Chip-mk1]

If you are still struggling at the weekend I can probably pop up on saturday and have a look for you. Let me know if you need me to.

 

[Spinksy]

Sounds very much like to me like a broken/nicked starter cable to me. Run a jump lead from battery positive to starter main power nut and try it. If it starts you know you have a dodgy cable.

Will try that mate

Try swopping round the small black relays under the engine fuse box

Will have a look at those, what are they for out of interest?

This.

Live to the starter to rule that out.

You touched the earth by the passenger headlamp?

The one from the battery to the car?

Not touched that one mate

If you are still struggling at the weekend I can probably pop up on saturday and have a look for you. Let me know if you need me to.

Cheers Chip I have a full day of tomorrow to try all the above, if none of those work I will let you know and cry myself to sleep for the rest of the week lol

 

[levaz]

cranks sensor / flywheel sensor?

my old megane would turn over for hours with no joy. wiggle the sender, it'd fire straight up.


edit: just seen its not turning, ignore me.
sounds like a dropped connection somewhere

 

[Dr HMS Derv Destroyer]

ecu earth to strut housing? not sure if it wouldnt let it turn over or not.

 

[Chip-mk1]

Does the fuel pump prime when you switch the ignition on? (its under rear seat, lift the bench bit up and its quite audible)

 

[Spinksy]

ecu earth to strut housing? not sure if it wouldnt let it turn over or not.

Does the fuel pump prime when you switch the ignition on? (its under rear seat, lift the bench bit up and its quite audible)

Hey guys first chance to pop in here since the issue started still no solution

I have now checked all fuses and relays, (can't find the black ones mentioned above)

Earthed the engine/gearbox/ECU via a jump cable and negative terminal on the battery and still no joy

About to try a new power feed to the starter motor with the starter in place and try to fire her up to check it isn't a break in the original power source to it(if I can get the housemate off his arse)

Failing that it is now a case of me being absolutely clueless

I will double check the fuel pump Chip but I'm sure I heard it while trying to start it last

I will report back ASAP

Thanks for the advice

 

[-J-]

Have you checked the battery... Just because you're getting a spark with the jump leads doesn't mean the battery's got enough juice.

 

[Spinksy]

Have you checked the battery... Just because you're getting a spark with the jump leads doesn't mean the battery's got enough juice.

My mate checked it with his multimeter and while we had the battery out of the car we used the same battery to see if the starter would would when out of the car

It worked fine

And as said everything lights up as it should, I can't put a wire to the starter motor tonight as unfortunately the only wire lying about is only good up to 10amps

So will get some wire from work tomorrow (any recommendations on what ratings they used for standard/better to avoid setting fire to the car?)

I was going to test to see if the coil pack/leads/spark plugs etc are working as they should but thought it pointless as there are no warning lights on to suggest a fault there and as mentioned above the car isn't turning over

Any chance it is the fuel pump causing the issue Chip-mk1 if it isn't priming? Or would that be a symptom of something else?

 

[Budgie]

My bet is you've left something unplugged. Or an earth not bolted up.

 

[MG cup]

Try the starter relay, listen to see if its switching while you go to start it. A good test is bridge out the positive and the solenoid on the starter with a screwdriver and it should turn over. Then have the ignition on, if it turns over its a starting system wiring fault, if it doesn't it will be the engine control side.

 

[Spinksy]

My bet is you've left something unplugged. Or an earth not bolted up.

I thought this mate and I have literally checked everything, and the only thing not plugged in is the Carbon Canister (deleted that) and the 3 wire plug that goes to the air con as I have removed the air con aswell

Try the starter relay, listen to see if its switching while you go to start it. A good test is bridge out the positive and the solenoid on the starter with a screwdriver and it should turn over. Then have the ignition on, if it turns over its a starting system wiring fault, if it doesn't it will be the engine control side.

Will give that a shot tomorrow mate, what does the starter relay look like (colour and size wise)?

 

[MG cup]

Will give that a shot tomorrow mate, what does the starter relay look like (colour and size wise)?[/QUOTE]

The starter solenoid is the little barrel attached to the starter itself. The main power terminal on the starter is an 8mm thread (13 mm nut) and a small terminal on the solenoid. Bridge out these two terminals, expect a few sparks.

 

[MG cup]

Feckin iPhones throwing a wobbler.

 

[Spinksy]

Feckin iPhones throwing a wobbler.

Lol

 

[George182]

Where do you live spinks?

 

[Spinksy]

Where do you live spinks?

Conisbrough in Doncaster atm, did I not give you my number a while back George?

I'll pm you now mate

 

[Chip-mk1]

If fuel pump doesn't prime it implies immobiliser.

 

[Spinksy]

If fuel pump doesn't prime it implies immobiliser.

Immobiliser is definitely turning off mate

Everything up to the point of turning over is normal, fuel pump primes, it just doesn't then turn over

It's not even like a failed attempt at turning over

It just gets itself ready and then when you turn the key it goes *clunk* as if the starter motor is about to turn over but is being stopped by a sudden loss of power to it

It won't bump or jump start either

 

[Chip-mk1]

The clunk is the starter solenoid firing. So can't be wiring related.

If you put the car in 4th and rock it back and forwards does the engine turn over freely then?

i assume when you say you tried to bump start it that when you let the clutch up it didn't lock the wheels or anything dramatic like that?

 

[MartinR]

Maybe a stab in the dark here. But 2 of the starter motor holes on the box are elongated. So the posistion of the starter can sometimes alter when refiting due to dowels missing etc.

Undo the three starter bolts and check that the starter is near on flush with the bell housing then bolt back up.

Few years back i done this and just got a clunk on my valver. Slacked the starter off and pulled it up slightly, bingo it started.

Must have not been able to rotate due the closeness off the teeth to the fly??

 

[MicKPM]

I love these issues. Normally simple if you just get all Julie Andrews on them - first question (of many)...

... check the fused link in the + battery terminal. Is it intact visually and using a volt meter does it have a good +12v either side of the link?

Mick

 

[hilldawg172]

The clunk is the starter solenoid firing. So can't be wiring related.

Not necessarily, the clicking is the solenoid firing as you said but it draws a weaker signal from the ignition switch live(if you look it's a much smaller cable than the main power cable), where the actual power to spin the spindal and turn the engine comes direct from the 12v main suply.

Not saying this is definitely the issue just that don't rule out the cable because the motor is clunking. Although he does say it doesn't bump off which would suggest another fault, I in the past have had clicking/clunking starters that turn out to be wiring.

 

[Chip-mk1]

Not necessarily, the clicking is the solenoid firing as you said but it draws a weaker signal from the ignition switch live(if you look it's a much smaller cable than the main power cable), where the actual power to spin the spindal and turn the engine comes direct from the 12v main suply.

Not saying this is definitely the issue just that don't rule out the cable because the motor is clunking.

Agreed, if its got a badly corroded positive, or a partially flat battery, or a bad earth etc that stops it drawing enough current it could be wiring in that context, I meant in terms of the fusebox and signal wiring etc, ie no point trying to test it by connecting a live straight to the solenoid like was being suggested.

 

[Spinksy]

The clunk is the starter solenoid firing. So can't be wiring related.

If you put the car in 4th and rock it back and forwards does the engine turn over freely then?

i assume when you say you tried to bump start it that when you let the clutch up it didn't lock the wheels or anything dramatic like that?

Nah, put it in first tried bumping and the car just acted as if it should have bumped but didn't turn over

Maybe a stab in the dark here. But 2 of the starter motor holes on the box are elongated. So the posistion of the starter can sometimes alter when refiting due to dowels missing etc.

Undo the three starter bolts and check that the starter is near on flush with the bell housing then bolt back up.

Few years back i done this and just got a clunk on my valver. Slacked the starter off and pulled it up slightly, bingo it started.

Must have not been able to rotate due the closeness off the teeth to the fly??

I think first chance I will get on this is tomorrow afternoon/evening

I love these issues. Normally simple if you just get all Julie Andrews on them - first question (of many)...

... check the fused link in the + battery terminal. Is it intact visually and using a volt meter does it have a good +12v either side of the link?

Mick

It is intact visually and I will run a voltmeter over both sides tomorrow

Not necessarily, the clicking is the solenoid firing as you said but it draws a weaker signal from the ignition switch live(if you look it's a much smaller cable than the main power cable), where the actual power to spin the spindal and turn the engine comes direct from the 12v main suply.

Not saying this is definitely the issue just that don't rule out the cable because the motor is clunking. Although he does say it doesn't bump off which would suggest another fault, I in the past have had clicking/clunking starters that turn out to be wiring.

Agreed, if its got a badly corroded positive, or a partially flat battery, or a bad earth etc that stops it drawing enough current it could be wiring in that context, I meant in terms of the fusebox and signal wiring etc, ie no point trying to test it by connecting a live straight to the solenoid like was being suggested.

What time are you available Saturday Chip-mk1 ? pm me if you want mate

I don't want to put you out or bring you out of your way mate but would really appreciate a hand as I am struggling to focus on the car with a lot of s**t I have going off at work atm and this is definitely affecting my problem solving skills

I can try and shuffle a few things to whatever time suits you

 

[W M Autos]

Starter not lined up properly. Slacken the bolts off and do them up evenly. If not it's the starter at fault.

 

[Chip-mk1]

Starter not lined up properly. Slacken the bolts off and do them up evenly. If not it's the starter at fault.

That wont stop it from bump starting though?


Spinksy, I can pop up late afternoon and have a look I expect.

Do you have things like a decent jack and axle stands etc?

 

[Spinksy]

That wont stop it from bump starting though?


Spinksy, I can pop up late afternoon and have a look I expect.

Do you have things like a decent jack and axle stands etc?

Yeah I have a decent jack, useable axle stands and a small selection of tools

And great, I will pm you my number

 

[W M Autos]

I didn't realise he'd tried that.... or I couldn't be bothered to read every post

That wont stop it from bump starting though?


Spinksy, I can pop up late afternoon and have a look I expect.

Do you have things like a decent jack and axle stands etc?