Spray painting question (rattle cans)

[jon_r]

I'm fixing up a damaged Cup spoiler back to former glory and painting it Trophy red. I've bought grey primer, red paint and clear lacquer. I've done base coats and the paint layer (last coat went on about 3pm yesterday).

To achieve the best results do i take advice from someone that said that lacquer should be applied within 30 mins of the final colour coat. However i've still got the imperfections in my last coat of paint (which has now dried) to flat out first.

So basically my 2 options are to follow the advice and flat the imperfections out of my paint, then reapply another final topcoat and if the finish is ok spray the lacquer on within half an hour.

Or

I could go off some instructions i've got off a halfords lacquer tin. Which state that the base coat should be left to dry 24 hours, then the surface keyed with 1200 until the colour is dull. Then spray the lacquer on top like you would with paint and leave to dry.

This second option would be easier because I can go outside now, flatten the red back ever so slightly and then begin lacquering!

 

[Toms_clio]

halford lacquer is shite!!
Change to something else...

 

[jon_r]

Constructive, thanks. Anyone able to answer the question and help out?

 

[Rob]

Hi.

I'd actually listen to the above TBH, but I will offer other advice.

If you're worried enough to worry about times, get some decent lacquer.

From what I've seen, flatting back the final coat with some proper fine paper then lacquering leaves AWESOME results, I've never perscribed to the times (final to lacquer) because halfords lacquer always ruins everything by making it go dark for some unknown reason.

I've always done, three coats (half hour intervals), 24hrs - flat, three coats (half hour intervals), 24hrs - flat if necessary, lacquer.

Where did you get the half hour of final coat advice from??

 

[tom-i]

I would flat the imperfections out then re-apply a red coat, 30 mins later lacquer it. The lacquer will then mix slightly with paint for a better finish. Otherwise your just spraying the clear on as a completely new layer.

 

[LIL B]

Maybe get some Upol Cans for the lacquering stages too.

 

[jon_r]

I'm a complete paint spraying novice, so some suggestions on what is a good lacquer would be appreciated. Halfrauds must sell hundreds of cans of lacquer a day, it can't be that s**te can it?

You also see my problem as a novice when I get both different answers within the first few posts!

Rob, the 30 minute thing came from a big thread i read on a mini forum where two pro's commented. Tom-i above backs that up as well. I dunno!

 

[Rob]

No that's all good Jon, I think the main reason for my technique is because I've generally only painted up wheels/grab handles etc. so my finish has never needed to be utterly AMAZING.

The 30 minute thing makes perfect sense, but seriously, look at different lacquer.

You say it can't be that bad, but I'd say it is, it ruined the finish on a set of wheels I did, expensive lacquer is a world ahead.

If I were you, it'd be:

Primer - 24hrs
Paint - 24 hrs, flat
Final coat of paint (make sure it's a good'un)

If you're happy with the final coat of paint, 30 mins later and lacquer goes on.

If you're not happy with the paint, then wait for it to dry (a proper 24hrs) then flat it.

Don't be tempted to try to flat not quite dry paint as it really goes balls up. Patience is key.

 

[jon_r]

Can I buy some decent lacquer on the high street or do i need to order online? I think i'll try the one final coat then wait 30 mins technique. Cheers.

 

[Mr R.]

Right its all about the prep you must get the 1st stages done right otherwise the rest will look crap no matter how good or bad the lacquer is.
I worked on Aston Martins for 12 years and then Porsche and Ferrari in a bodyshop for 4 years so i guess i knows a thing or two......

Just because Halfords sell loads of something dont mean to say that its anygood as most men off of the street dont know there ass from there elbow anyway, but i have used there lacquer on my newley plated wheel bolts and it seems to be fine.

After you have flatted off the primer and are happy with the finish you can then add the top coat which has now got a key to stick to, you only need to give it about 10 mins to just flash off as a tack dry because if it drys fully then the lacquer will only have a shiny service to go on top of and this will mean that it will start to flake off at some point as theres not been a key for it to stick to.
If you rub the top coat down before you lacquer then you will see the flatting or scratch marks under the lacquer which is not what your after.

Hope this has been some help as i hate trying to put stuff into words.....

 

[LIL B]

UPOL - they sell that in halfords too.

Or tetrosol (sp) - both OK as you're canning it.

 

[jon_r]

OK, thanks for everyones help here. I think i'll go and give it a quick layer of red as a final coat and then lacquer it soon afterwards before it fully dries. Fingers crossed!

 

[Mr R.]

It will be fine.....

 

[Rob]

Right its all about the prep you must get the 1st stages done right otherwise the rest will look crap no matter how good or bad the lacquer is.
I worked on Aston Martins for 12 years and then Porsche and Ferrari in a bodyshop for 4 years so i guess i knows a thing or two......

Just because Halfords sell loads of something dont mean to say that its anygood as most men off of the street dont know there ass from there elbow anyway, but i have used there lacquer on my newley plated wheel bolts and it seems to be fine.

After you have flatted off the primer and are happy with the finish you can then add the top coat which has now got a key to stick to, you only need to give it about 10 mins to just flash off as a tack dry because if it drys fully then the lacquer will only have a shiny service to go on top of and this will mean that it will start to flake off at some point as theres not been a key for it to stick to.
If you rub the top coat down before you lacquer then you will see the flatting or scratch marks under the lacquer which is not what your after.

Hope this has been some help as i hate trying to put stuff into words.....

Not questioning you, but am I totally wrong in saying that if you flat the top coat with very fine paper (say 4000) then the marks are so minor the lacquer 100% covers them up?? As I'm sure I've seen this done before.

As someone who's used a range of different lacquers on (imo) properly prepared things, the quality and finish of the halfords stuff is awful in comparison to others.

 

[Rob]

OK, thanks for everyones help here. I think i'll go and give it a quick layer of red as a final coat and then lacquer it soon afterwards before it fully dries. Fingers crossed!

Flat it first IMO (if you haven't already), it'll give you a smoother finish.

 

[jon_r]

Before the final layer of red i assume? I've got to pop to Halfords at lunch which involves firing up the BM that hasn't moved in 3 weeks. lol.

 

[Mr R.]

Not questioning you, but am I totally wrong in saying that if you flat the top coat with very fine paper (say 4000) then the marks are so minor the lacquer 100% covers them up?? As I'm sure I've seen this done before.
Yes sorry that will be fine but again if the prep is done correct then there is no need to waste anymore time in doing this and risk the chance in messing it up by maybe getting a bit of grit under the paper or something stupid like that.
If its done right then leave it alone and get the lacqure on, simples....

As someone who's used a range of different lacquers on (imo) properly prepared things, the quality and finish of the halfords stuff is awful in comparison to others.

Yes we used to use Spies Hecker paint in the good old days of two pack, not cheap but damm good...

 

[Mr R.]

Not questioning you, but am I totally wrong in saying that if you flat the top coat with very fine paper (say 4000) then the marks are so minor the lacquer 100% covers them up?? As I'm sure I've seen this done before.

Yes sorry that will be fine but again if the prep is done correct then there is no need to waste anymore time in doing this and risk the chance in messing it up by maybe getting a bit of grit under the paper or something stupid like that.
If its done right then leave it alone and get the lacqure on, simples....


As someone who's used a range of different lacquers on (imo) properly prepared things, the quality and finish of the halfords stuff is awful in comparison to others.

Yes we used to use Spies Hecker paint in the good old days of two pack, not cheap but damm good...

 

[Rob]

Before the final layer of red i assume? I've got to pop to Halfords at lunch which involves firing up the BM that hasn't moved in 3 weeks. lol.

Yeah before your final layer of red, so flat it with very fine paper, final layer of red, 30 mins or less, then lacquer.

 

[Final Maxim]

make sure the colour is dry before you laquer

if you put laquer on a wet basecoat it will probably "drag" and it will all need to come off, or just leave it looking s**t

 

[skinz]

Is the red solid or metallic? if solid then it won't need lacuqered as the paint is hard enough - thought Id check since the only 'red' i have seen for a clio is a solid

 

[Hi# im steve]

Is the red solid or metallic? if solid then it won't need lacuqered as the paint is hard enough - thought Id check since the only 'red' i have seen for a clio is a solid

:S hard enough ?

 

[skinz]

:S hard enough ?

Lol re-read and does sound weird, solid colours are harder paints than metallics/pearls and do not require lacquering

 

[richwilkins50]

lacquer also provides UV protection amogst others so it'll help keep the color from fading.

 

[Pacman.]

some solids can have lacquer applied depending on colour and some colours can still fade even with lacquer but if you wash your car regularly and give it a few coats of polish now and then it should be fine.

Lacquer itself can get damaged by UV rays hence why cars from sunnier climates look like a bag of sh*t if not cared for.

 

[Simon@SprayShack]

Rattle cans = fail, full stop. Get primer and the colour on that will be easy enough, make sure you blend the colour well else you will see your spray lines as rattle cans do not have the atomisation of an expensive spray gun. Use a tack coat first (light all over), then normally a 50-70% overlap between your spray lines, then a blend coat all over if a metalic (never sand a metalic unless you respraying), probably 4 coats of colour with a rattle can.

Clear coat wise use good quality, it will have more build but will never be as a good as pro stuff. If your using rattle cans, you will need a ton of cans to get the build all over, even pro stuff needs 2-3 coats, so with rattle cans i dread to think. Once you have a really good build, you will definately need to wet sand it and buff the whole thing up, as unless you are a god with a rattle can, then it will be orange peal.

 

[eurorob]

first off if your doing it with rattle cans then the finish will never be brilliant, second, you should never flatt a base coat, just nib at most as you can contaminate your base and risk the laquer lifting or getting micro blisters, third, if you keep applying coats you job is going to f**k up as rattle cans contain so much solvant that if you apply too much it will crossel and start to lift it all. for best results you should be using a gun or simply go to a body shop, a rear spoiler paint should only cost between £80-£120, im sure youll have £40 in materials and you will never acheeve the same finish with cans. not trying to get on at people doing bits themselfs but reality is that rattle cans are crap unless your going for some kind of rat look

 

[SkidMarx]

As said, never gonna get the best finish from a rattle can... but they are ok for doing small jobs i.e wheels, mirrors, spoiler etc.

And iv never had a problem with halfords laquer, Had good results with it that have lasted.