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Phase 1 Renault 9 Turbo



  21T, 9T, 172, V6
I think this is my third project thread on here now :) one day i'll learn my lesson. Maybe.

This is Alex the 9 (Numberplate D570 ALX... ALX = Alex = how original :D )

I first saw this car in 2001 at Shakey, it was owned by one of the marshals there. It was his dads car before that. At the time I was still quite into my 9's and 11's as the 21 fetish hadn't quite fully taken over my life yet. It wasn't for sale, but I planted the seed that should he sell, it should come my way. We were regulars at Shakey at the time so I saw the guy regularly enough, and the 9 would be sat outside the marshals shack.
Some time in 2002 I think, the guy approached me and asked me if I still wanted the car, for the princely sum of two hundred and fifty pounds. Needless to say the deal was struck.
I actually gave it to my Mrs at the time to drive around as her daily. It came to a few shows and generally ran her around for three years despite me nearly setting fire to it and having to replace the whole dash and engine loom :eek: . It never let us down, but when she got pregnant with our first child we took the executive decision to upgrade to something bigger and safer for her and (what would be) my daughter. (In case you're wondering, a Phase 1 21 Turbo, then a Safrane Exec)

The last tax and test ran out in 2005, and to this day has never seen the road again. It's lived:
On my grandads houses drive
In a rented lockup
On a mates drive
At a rented spot in a unit
At a sub-let small unit
At another mates house
...and finally it arrived on my drive at my house on the 30th November 2014. This is it leaving Danny's house.

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It's been there ever since (originally posted this Aug 2017), save for me starting it a couple of times a year, and me moving it to dig out the drive and hardcore it. This is the furthest its been from the drive :)

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I've had no less than seven people stop me outside the house, knock the door, post notes or similar about it so far this year View attachment 22522

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So, anyway. The garage has progressed to a point now where I could get this thing out of the weather. It's starting to suffer and though it always needed paint, and it had some rust anyway (its a 1986 Renault FFS) it's generally in decent nick and not terminal. The Phase one benefits from not having sideskirts to give the sills the damp misery to rot away at a thousand miles an hour. I bought some wheel skates for it last week, and Saturday was "Moving day".

Brigsy rebuilt the carb for me last year so it's easier to start now, I hoofed a battery on it, bridged the fuel pump relay and after a few cranks and fresh fuel down the choke it fired right up. Same oil and coolant as the day I took it off the road lol! I warmed it up and made sure the stat was working, and then drove it right around back to it's new house. Stuck it on the wheel skates and turned it around, and tucked it away in the corner.... for now.

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  21T, 9T, 172, V6
I did do a cursory examination before I stuffed it in the corner. The boot slam panel is rotten as a pear, and the numberplate lights have fallen out. This has been goosed since the day I bought it and I have a brand new panel to replace it with. The interior is dry and mould free and generally OK save for needing a good clean.
The doors were rotten as hell when I bought it and in about 2004 I picked up a silver phase 2 NA 1.4 GTL with a blown head gasket for something ridiculous like fifty quid. The doors, wings. bonnet and boot lid were totally rust free though and great nick, so they got slapped on this car hence the >>>>TURBO strip not being complete and there being horrible trims on the doors. They'll be gone soon. One mistake I made is when changing the doors and binning the old ones, I didnt swap over the leccy windows or door cards at the time, and I stripped and stored the old door furniture. Well, I didnt store them very well and I found it all when I cleared the spares to build the new garage... the mice had basically trashed anything material and then everything was also soaked - I dont mean damp I mean the storage containers were full of water, submerged, totally ruined wet. It all went in the bin, so now I need new Turbo door cards at least. Might keep the manual winders though, we all know how s**t 80's Renault leccy windows are!
The visible rust on the body seems to be all surface and non-perforating. I'm amazed how little there is considering this is a mid-eighties French car. It should be dust by now.

I had a very tentative tap-tap-tap down the sills, which grew in confidence when I didn't just smash right through them. Amazing. Solid save for about three inches on the NSR near the back jacking point. I can live with that. I got under it and the floorpan is as good as the day I parked it up. It's very good indeed overall. The fuel tank has heavy surface rust so that may need a review, probably switch it out for an ally or poly item.
Lastly I looked at the front jacking points. These were solid from the chassis rails to the bit that supports and engages the jack head, but the actual jack bit looked iffy. A heavy jab with a brass punch resulted in the dreaded crunch, followed by a rain of iron oxide on the floor. Both sides are completely gone (see that little pile of rust in the last pic above, under the car? Thats the pax side jacking point LOL). All in all, though, I cannot complain at how it's survived. Having lived outside for about 7 of the last 12 years, the fact that it starts, drives, and hasn't literally fallen apart has got to be a good start....right?

Also back in the day I recall doing the following:
Turbo rebuilt
Welding and patching the inner wings
Replacing the whole dash and interior loom with Phase 2, VGC stuff
Fixing the speedo and everything else electrical (will it all still work? haha!)
...and lots of other stuff. On top of this I have, over the years, not forgotten my little 9 and have accumulated a few bargains along the way. I know for sure I have stashed:
New clutch
New pistons and liners
New rocker cover
New shocks all around
New torsion bar bushes (I'd like to keep the original drum brake axle but one of the bushes is shot)
New PI lowering springs
New OMP Strut brace
4 x Magnesium 16's as seen on my 172 here
New steering rack
4 brand new headlights (I hope there are 2 inner, 2 outer - can't remember!)
Used Phase 2 tinted rear lights
New boot slam panel

UPDATE: Since this was originally written I have also bagged most of the stuff to convert the original C1J to EFI. I was considering an F4R swap but thought keeping the OE lump would be cooler so it's getting EFI with an Adaptronic 420d standalone unit.

This is probably not going to be a short thread. I would imagine it won't be particularly quick either
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  21T, 9T, 172, V6
That brings us to this week, it's sat there in the corner being a parts store waiting patiently for me to tart around with the V6 and 21.

Anyway, I ran out of welding gas (the £15 disposible bottles) for the welder after 1 day working on the 21 over xmas, I figured i'd had it up too high so bought another cylinder and adjusted it down to the bare minimum and ran out of gas again after 1 day, so I need to do something around the gas bottles. I am using FAR too much to keep using disposibles. In the meantime I thought i'd attack the back axle on the 9 for a laugh as the bushes were goosed when I took it off the road in 2005, let alone now.

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I just got stuck in a rattle gunned off the wheels, hub nuts, shock mounts and both axle bolts on either side. The NS hub came off easy and I stripped the shoes off, but the OS was firmly stuck on, either the wheel cylinder or handbrake mechanism was binding the brake on so I couldnt even turn the hub let alone pull it off.

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After disconnecting the NS brake cable and dropping the axle down I decided to hack through the OS handbrake cable as you can get them for a few quid each and I would replace them anyway at that price. I made up some brake line plugs in the hope that the brake lines might actually come undone.

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View attachment 130339

Decided i'd heat the fittings a bit to see if they would crack off and allow me to plug the lines to the front to stop drippage.

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I got the NS one off OK and plugged it, but I overheated the OS one and it blew the rubber line out of the crimped fitting lol. I clamped the flexi, then it was just the bias bar to disconnect and it was off the car.

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Don't these torsion bars look fun.... NOT.

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I hoped this one would be better having the cap still on

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Nope

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  21T, 9T, 172, V6
I managed to get the drum off with little more than brute force, at the cost of some superficial drum damage.

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I tried to get the torsion bar out but the threads were goosed. There was nothing to tie a bolt in to even after I ran a tap down the hole it was all knackered. I had a think and then got my gas torch out again and heated the centre fitting for the bar where the 2 sides join in the middle, I got that really really hot and then knocked the whole outer axle segment outward. This pulled the inner joint out without having to move the outer joint.

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Then I heated the outer joint and stood the thing on a steel plate and battered the back end of the bar with a lump hammer and drift. Bingo!

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Once that had moved I lobbed it in the press and pushed the bar through

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Bushes look mint. My buddy Steve linked me the right ones to buy as I had managed to purchase the 2-bar refurb set not the 4-bar, saying that I bought em so long ago I cant even remember where from or how much!

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Once the old bushes are out I think i'll get it blasted, as I have the 21 subframe to drop in for the same treatment anyway.
 
  21T, 9T, 172, V6
I am loving your project threads. Top work.
I'm really enjoying it all too :)

Ordered new brake shoes, wheel cylinders, handbrake cables, and axle bushes all New-Old-Stock for a smidge over fifty quid, bargain or what! eBay, for all it's faults, is absolutely fab for stuff like this. I spend many a lunchtime at work cross referencing part numbers and hunting down old car tat. It's almost a side hobby!

eBay tip - if you search for something (like "Renault 9 Turbo") and get spammed with 50,000 results for Kangoo 1.9 turbo diesel etc etc you can exclude items by prefixing with a "-", so if I search for "Renault 9 turbo -diesel -kangoo -espace -trafic -laguna" it returns results for "Renault 9 Turbo" but excludes everything with diesel or kangoo or espace or trafic or laguna in the title.
 
  Nissan Daily Shed
Quality thread!
My dad had a 9 followed by a 21 when I was a toddler.
Cabt remember the last time I saw one of either.
 
  197 Cup
Love a project thread.

A friend of mine had a black 9 turbo and an orange 11 turbo a while back!

Was considering an 11 myself a little while back.

The gas cylinders are a waste of time and money. Most motor factors sell deposit and fill bottles these days.
 
  197 Cup
@DaveL485

Well I do it for a living, have done since I was 17! Never seem to do anything for myself though. I Want to build a classic race car at some point though. Building cars and race cars for other people isn't fun when you have to hand them over at the end!

Enjoyed turboing my 197 as you've seen on turborenault.
 

Darren S

ClioSport Club Member
  Black Gold 182
Great project! Can't remember the last time I saw a 9 - let alone a Turbo one. What were the book figures on these for BHP and torque?

I bet some of the bits like the Turbo badges on the flanks would be a small fortune if original. I assume you're just going to get some vinyl reprints of them?

Scrolling through the pictures a bit too quickly - I thought your rear bumper had been kebab'd from the angle of the jack handle and light fitting hanging down...

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  21T, 9T, 172, V6
@DaveL485

Well I do it for a living, have done since I was 17! Never seem to do anything for myself though. I Want to build a classic race car at some point though. Building cars and race cars for other people isn't fun when you have to hand them over at the end!

Enjoyed turboing my 197 as you've seen on turborenault.
Ah that was you with the 197! Yes I would like to do that to mine, but....do I need another project? Not really lol. I dont do spanners for a job, it'd ruin my passion for it, currently when I have had enough I can walk away for a bit. I fly a desk for Cadbury in Bournville to pay the bills.

Great project! Can't remember the last time I saw a 9 - let alone a Turbo one. What were the book figures on these for BHP and torque?

I bet some of the bits like the Turbo badges on the flanks would be a small fortune if original. I assume you're just going to get some vinyl reprints of them?

Scrolling through the pictures a bit too quickly - I thought your rear bumper had been kebab'd from the angle of the jack handle and light fitting hanging down...
110bhp I think, at around 10psi. With the EFi and some other tried and tested tweaks I should see 150 or so but that will be enough for this old bus. I don't need to go mad, I have the 21 for that. They are rare, 3 or 4 left in total I think. Very few.
It's quite an original car, all told, but nothing is worth anything really because there is no market or demand. The parts with value are anything that interchanges with a 5 GT Turbo - engine, box, carb, etc. The rest is little more than scrap value IMHO.

The bumper is as straight as you can expect for a 32 year old French car...which is "not very" but it hasnt been bashed or crashed. The front bumper has a crack but in the parts stash I accumulated over the years I have a brand new OE one :) The vinly striped down the side have been replicated by a french firm, I think €60 a set. I'll grab some when I need some, which at current rate of progress will be around 2030 :D
 
  21T, 9T, 172, V6
So I have now kicked the crap out of the remaining bush material and got them out of the axle mounts. Took about an hour for both sides, after a careful think of how to approach, the inner ring I just chiselled out as they collapsed inward easily after being mostly rotted away.

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Then I used an air saw to cut a slot in the rubber bush bit and peeled that out

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Finally the outer collar - that was a bit more resistant and although rusted it was structurally solid so I had to use a selection of punches and chisels to pick up and edge and beat it senseless until I could collapse it enough to pull it out.

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Definitely seen better days. The axle I was going to clean up manually and paint but its just really grotty and it would be a days work so I dropped it in for shot blasting along with my 21 subframe, then i'll coat with Bilt Hamber and paint by hand.

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  21T, 9T, 172, V6
While under there I noticed that the fuel tank was a bit scratty (these are metal not polymer) and that there was a small patch of rust on the rear OS chassis box section near the back tank mount, where the fuel pipes run through the chassis rail. It's thick metal and a small patch so should be an easy fiw when I get some welding gas sorted so I dropped the tank off. One of the 4 bolts needed cutting off as the retained thread had broken away due to the rust.

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Note to self : This is how the pipes route.

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Popped the sender out and - oh. Yuk. This is what 13 years stood does to a metal tank.

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I can't even get my mammoth clown hand in the sender hole so I stood there staring at it for a good five minutes and did the only thing that any normal male would do. I broke out the most violent overkill tool/solution I could think of. Plasma Cutter. And yes I emptied and dried the fuel out first!

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I managed to get a very satisfying, clean cut right around the edge which will make it easier when I attempt to weld it back up again. Inside it was absolutely yukky.

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I did think about getting it blasted but I need to kerb some spending so I went through 2 flap discs, a wire wheel and some sandpaper and then dug out some metal primer that I bought specifically to prime and rust cure.



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Now I need to figure out what to coat the inside with to stop it rusting once it's all cleaned up. This primer is petroleum based so if I use that it'll just dissolve it and s**t up my pump and filter. I also just realised when posting this that I have painted to the edge of the cut, which was stupid because now I have to clean the paint back again to weld the tank back up. I should have waited to paint it until it was welded up again.

Still, it's progress, and every job done is another job off the list.
 
  197 Cup
I had to repair a motorbike tank at work a few months ago. Took all day to make up bits and weld it up. But he couldn't get another anywhere.
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Can't find a pic of it all done! Typical.
 
  21T, 9T, 172, V6
How are you going to weld it back up Dave? Gas or tig?
I'm going to MIG weld it, then assuming I don't make a total pigs ear of it i'l likely go over the top of the weld with Tiger seal and then paint it.
Where the weld line will be isn't visible even from under the car with tank mounted, so it just needs to be functional. I also found out yesterday that the tank is the same as a R19 one so if it goes tits up i'll be able to source one of those easily enough I think. If a decent one comes up before I weld this up i'll probably grab it.
 
  21T, 9T, 172, V6
Can someone please measure a 1*2 rear shock for me? I would like the casing length mainly, but then the fully extended length top to bottom too if poss.

Obviously this is to have a quick look to see if the shocks are cross compatible with this old bus. They "look" like they might work. Thanks in advance :)
 
  197 Cup
I'm going to MIG weld it, then assuming I don't make a total pigs ear of it i'l likely go over the top of the weld with Tiger seal and then paint it.
Where the weld line will be isn't visible even from under the car with tank mounted, so it just needs to be functional. I also found out yesterday that the tank is the same as a R19 one so if it goes tits up i'll be able to source one of those easily enough I think. If a decent one comes up before I weld this up i'll probably grab it.
In all honesty I think you'll have trouble getting it to seal with a mig. I've made a few ali tanks and the slightest pin hole will leak! I'm not saying you won't be able to but it definitely won't be easy. If you weld it with a mig you'll struggle to weld it with a tig after.

Maybe find someone who has a replacement before having a go.
 
  21T, 9T, 172, V6
In all honesty I think you'll have trouble getting it to seal with a mig. I've made a few ali tanks and the slightest pin hole will leak! I'm not saying you won't be able to but it definitely won't be easy. If you weld it with a mig you'll struggle to weld it with a tig after.

Maybe find someone who has a replacement before having a go.
I agree with all of the above :) I am looking around for a replacement, but it has to be cheap!
 
Now I need to figure out what to coat the inside with to stop it rusting once it's all cleaned up. This primer is petroleum based so if I use that it'll just dissolve it and s**t up my pump and filter. I also just realised when posting this that I have painted to the edge of the cut, which was stupid because now I have to clean the paint back again to weld the tank back up. I should have waited to paint it until it was welded up again.

Still, it's progress, and every job done is another job off the list.
Could you get the interior ceramic coated, like wot they use on exhaust manifolds?

You could always ring a petroleum/oil supplier and ask what they use to line 20gallon barrels with - it must be the same principle?

I guess you could also look into buying a 'bag' tank or similar and fitting it into the original tank, using the original tank shell just to keep it to the right shape - that would mean no fuel would touch the insides of the actual tank, and you could just spray the inside of it as you have the outside before fitting the bag system.


Awesome work BTW - I miss my old 11 (auto, 1.4 :D ) very much, and remember once seeing a 9 virtually scraping along the floor at a holiday campsite, it had so much luggage and fat people in it. lol

My 11 had a patch of missing paint on the roof that had nothing happen to it in the years I owned it - they must have actually used decent undercoat/paint at that time at Renault!
 
  21T, 9T, 172, V6
Good Luck, I'll keep an eye out.
....and just like that, a brand new old stock pattern tank has dropped in to my lap from one of my TurboRenault chums @Big_Steve_T - what a stroke of luck. And being the top banana that he is he's selling it me for the princely sum of several kilo's of Mini Eggs....which when you work at Cadbury in Bournville isn't too much of a problem lol

So, looks like my sunday afternoon of tank cleaning was a bit of a waste of time! (but in the best possible way)

Awesome work BTW
Cheers, the poor thing has been parked up 14 years now so it's well overdue some attention. I'm thinking I might get it back to MOT standard mechanically and switch it to EFI management and leave the body looking tatty for a bit, get some use out of it, then sort the body when the 21 is done. I cant do 2 bare shell resto's at the same time!
 
  21T, 9T, 172, V6
just noticed the box on the bench in the earlier posts. R tech, i have an R tech Tig welder, Quality machine 👍
Yes mate, I have an R-Tech MIG180 and a P30C Plasma Cutter. I got them for a good discount (30% ish) on retail through some charity auctions that R-Tech donated them to, they really are good guys and the kit is fantastic.

I have a 10% off code for the R-Tech web shop if you're happy to join a FB group, drop me a PM if interested.
 
  21T, 9T, 172, V6
On with the axle, back from blasting so I attached it with Bilt Hamber Hydrate, I like this stuff. Saw someone else using it on TurboRenault.

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Left to cook, 24 hours at gas mark 0.1 :D

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In the mean time I hacked out this bit of grot on the back chassis rail where the fuel pipes cross through

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  21T, 9T, 172, V6
Cardboard template, cut it out and bent it, trimmed and welded in. Still struggling with neat welds, bit frustrated tbh I should be doing better than this.

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Back edge is a bit better

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Then on Sunday did the rear axle with some nice thick primer over the Bilt Hamber

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I had another 40 min before I had to head off to the Snowdome Sunday afternoon for my first ever Ski lesson, so i investigated some suspicious looking metal on the rear axle mounting points, between the front and rear bolt holes.

Tap (crunch) tap (crunch) oh dear that doesnt sound... TAP - SMASH - oh f**k

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Surely the other side can't be that bad.... tap-tap- SMASH oh F**K

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  21T, 9T, 172, V6
I investigated further, and what i think has happened is that water gets in between the axle mount and the bottom of the car where its rotted and doesnt dry out very well. Its eaten through from the outside to the inside. Where the axle is bolted tight against the bottom of the car where water/damp can't get to is not rusted. As I cut away the rotten patch you can see up into the box above and actually, both sides are in pretty good nick considering the shambles of the outer skin. I was absolutely dreading what I was going to find behind the rusted bit but as it wasn't actually holed and water didnt get inside that cavity it looks like i've been able to cut back to solid metal and a flat square patch will sort both sides once i've treated inside the cavity.

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The floor carnage

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Thats all for this update folks :)
 

RichValver

ClioSport Club Member
  Clio 16v/172 daily
assuming the rear beam is likely to be same as the Clio beams? I need bushes if you can recall where you got them from?
 
  21T, 9T, 172, V6
assuming the rear beam is likely to be same as the Clio beams? I need bushes if you can recall where you got them from?
Would depend on whether it's 2 or 4 bar torsion beam. I'll check the part numbers for you, whats the oval plate of your valver?
 

RichValver

ClioSport Club Member
  Clio 16v/172 daily
Code would be C57D. Not got a pic of the plate to hand. The beam looks the same from the pics.
 
  21T, 9T, 172, V6
Code would be C57D. Not got a pic of the plate to hand. The beam looks the same from the pics.
The diagram doesnt split the bush out from the metal bracket that attaches to the car

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However it looks the same so for the cost of one it's got to be worth a purchase for a look-see :) I havent fitted mine up yet though so i'll feed back when mine are in. Link...

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Mounting-axle-beam-for-RENAULT-SUPER-5-B-C40-C1C-700-C1E-756-C1E-752-C1E-750/113368707059?ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649
 

RichValver

ClioSport Club Member
  Clio 16v/172 daily
The diagram doesnt split the bush out from the metal bracket that attaches to the car

View attachment 1403042

However it looks the same so for the cost of one it's got to be worth a purchase for a look-see :) I havent fitted mine up yet though so i'll feed back when mine are in. Link...

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Mounting-axle-beam-for-RENAULT-SUPER-5-B-C40-C1C-700-C1E-756-C1E-752-C1E-750/113368707059?ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649
cheers matey 😊
 
  21T, 9T, 172, V6
Saturday I treated the inside of the box where the bottom of the axle mount had rotted away

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Then I painted the axle black, and while I did it had a good old think about how to handle the refitting of the bushes (Yes, continuity error here as the bushes are already in, get over it :p )

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I cleaned up the inside of the axle parts with a dremel and rubbed grease in to aide refitting

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I decided to fit the bushes to the mounts first, and not wanting to press down on the middle bit and stress the rubber to sink the outer bush in, I plasma cut a ring from 4mm steel that fitted over the bush inner and rested on the outer metal ring, but inside the edge of the axle mount

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Then it got a damn good pressing. You can see the ring I made under that old-wheel-bearing stack.

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Success

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