[PC] Forza Motorsport 6

[Darren S]

Windows 10 & DX12 loveliness beckons....

Anyone had a look on the Windows Store to see if the Beta is available for download yet? Might be a time delay being American?

http://www.forzamotorsport.net/en-us/news/FM6_Apex_Announce

 

[BoatNonce]

Only way I'll be in is if it still has the C30 tbh.

 

[Darren S]

Only way I'll be in is if it still has the C30 tbh.

You should officially request it.

 

[SharkyUK]

The open beta is still not ready for us just yet... *patiently waiting*

 

[SharkyUK]

Available for download... 19GB. Grabbing it now...

 

[Gareth]

Downloading also

 

[SharkyUK]

Well... it's certainly very pretty

 

[Silent_Scone]

Pheck, it's out now? I'm still rocking this 680 till BWE/Pascal refresh. Wonder how DX12s lack of overhead helps

 

[Gareth]

LOVING it, Brands Hatch in the rain was brilliant and Abu Dhabi in the Aston was amazeballs, love getting some monstrous drifts going through the corners. Looks brilliant as well and running perfectly on the 980Ti.

 

[Darren S]

Need some screenies chaps. My archaic broadband will take all weekend to download it!

 

[Toypop]

Not that impressed. I mean its a solid 60fps on XO.
That first race in Rio on PC isn't that smooth. It defaults to 1440p ultra but clearly isn't using multi-gpu or g-sync. On a single 980ti and OC'd 6700k it couldn't hold 60fps.
I mean Ok neither would Project Cars probably but then the latter can use both my cards and won't stutter if it does drop a bit because g-sync works on that... I know what my PC can do and when I look at it stuttering a bit on Forza I know it can do better. If I drop it to 1080p it is smoother but then it doesn't really look much different to XO when driving.

Not impressed with these Windows 10 games so far. I actually prefer playing Quantum Break on my XO, it is that bad on PC. Not played it since the most recent patch though so can't comment on that.

Only plus point is that the trigger rumble works on my XO pad.

 

[Toypop]

Weird, if I go back in and do a free play and recreate the Rio race that you do during the intro, it runs a lot smoother. No idea why that would be, it obviously isn't doing all that tutorial stuff during the free play race.

Also the graphics options are odd. If I lower the detail preset to medium it seems to drop the resolution down to 1080 without your permission so you have to put it back up. But on that medium preset at 1080 it was almost as if it put a 30 lock on the frame rate.

Well anyway Rio now seems Ok at 1440p ultra although its hard to tell as I don't have a way of measuring the performance in Windows 10 games.

 

[SharkyUK]

No performance problems whatsoever here on 980Ti and i7-4770K (although running at 1200p and 1080p). Rock solid framerate on Ultra settings. However, I'm getting crashes when trying to grab screenshots and video clips. When it doesn't crash the video clips have no audio and - after grabbing about 20 screenshots - they have vanished from my system (if they were saved anywhere at all!) Pfft.

Amazing how it retained the worst of the bunch of the screenshots!


Forza Motorsport 6_ Apex (Beta) 05_05_2016 22_33_30 by Andy Eder, on Flickr


Forza Motorsport 6_ Apex (Beta) 05_05_2016 22_33_44 by Andy Eder, on Flickr


Forza Motorsport 6_ Apex (Beta) 05_05_2016 22_33_49 by Andy Eder, on Flickr


Forza Motorsport 6 Apex (Open Beta) by Andy Eder, on Flickr


Forza Motorsport 6_ Apex (Beta) 05_05_2016 23_04_05 by Andy Eder, on Flickr


Forza Motorsport 6_ Apex (Beta) 05_05_2016 23_04_02 by Andy Eder, on Flickr

 

[SharkyUK]

It defaults to 1440p ultra but clearly isn't using multi-gpu or g-sync.

Windows Store / DX12 games don't yet support multi-gpu or g-sync. There are lots of known problems that are due to be fixed over the coming weeks and months. No steering wheel support either in this version of the game.

 

[SharkyUK]

And here's a couple of crappy unedited videos. These were recorded with the Win10 built-in Game DVR feature so... they are shite. No audio (don't know why) and only 30fps (despite the game running at a flawless 60fps). I might try and get ShadowPlay working instead.

 

[SharkyUK]

fm6apex01 by Andy Eder, on Flickr

Here's another video showing the replay from a race at Spa (captured using nVidia ShadowPlay so hopefully it has audio and 60fps playback this time). Apologies for the screensaver kicking in towards the end. It would seem the game doesn't disable the screensaver...

 

[BoatNonce]

No steering wheel support either in this version of the game.

Tables be flippin'.

 

[Amos91]

Tables be flippin'.

Yep! Watching that in car cockpit video with a controller is nauseating! Game looks nice though, will give it a download this weekend.

 

[Darren S]

Windows Store / DX12 games don't yet support multi-gpu or g-sync. There are lots of known problems that are due to be fixed over the coming weeks and months. No steering wheel support either in this version of the game.

You have GOT to be kidding me?!?!?!

Multi-GPU support is one thing. But no G-Sync?? I've long forgotten what bloody V-Sync is....! :smile:

 

[Gareth]

I had a few more laps around Brands this morning in the P1 and Ferrari California, its great and works well with the Xbox One pad.

 

[SharkyUK]

You have GOT to be kidding me?!?!?!

Multi-GPU support is one thing. But no G-Sync?? I've long forgotten what bloody V-Sync is....! :smile:

The Windows Store games use UWP which unifies game development across multiple devices. Hence what we see with Apex on PC (at the moment) is a somewhat 'compromised' version of the game. No G-Sync, runs in a window, VSync cap, no multi-gpu (although it's doable apparently, but not enabled by the developers) and a few other things.

 

[Jonnio]

If my computer hasn't already auto updated to DX12 is the computer not compatible with it?

Had a poke around this morning and I found I couldn't download Forza and it's still on DX11.

 

[Darren S]

If my computer hasn't already auto updated to DX12 is the computer not compatible with it?

Had a poke around this morning and I found I couldn't download Forza and it's still on DX11.

If your PC is running Windows 10 - DX12 comes built within it. However, it can happily run on DX11 should your graphics card not be compliant with DX12.

 

[Darren S]

The Windows Store games use UWP which unifies game development across multiple devices. Hence what we see with Apex on PC (at the moment) is a somewhat 'compromised' version of the game. No G-Sync, runs in a window, VSync cap, no multi-gpu (although it's doable apparently, but not enabled by the developers) and a few other things.

Well, there's your next job Andy. Get those features enabled and into the mainstream! :smile:

 

[Jonnio]

If your PC is running Windows 10 - DX12 comes built within it. However, it can happily run on DX11 should your graphics card not be compliant with DX12.

Ahh right. Windows store says "To use this app, you'll need a device with more features. For details, see Additional information > Hardware requirements."

Is this literally just dumbing down of PC games to the point where I can't even try it on my ~6 year old computer lol?

 

[Darren S]

Ahh right. Windows store says "To use this app, you'll need a device with more features. For details, see Additional information > Hardware requirements."

Is this literally just dumbing down of PC games to the point where I can't even try it on my ~6 year old computer lol?

If its any consolation, it will run like crap on mine too! In theory - if the multi-GPU and G-Sync features were enabled, it would be a much better experience. Splitting the workload between four GPUs and 8GB of memory - with it in its current form, I'll be having one GPU just running with 2GB of graphics memory.

For all I know, that might be below the minimum required??

 

[SharkyUK]

If your PC is running Windows 10 - DX12 comes built within it. However, it can happily run on DX11 should your graphics card not be compliant with DX12.

Older / earlier and some dodgy versions of Win10 don't have DX12 - you ideally need to be running the latest version (which will be the case if you've got a legit version and receiving the updates). Forza Motorsport Apex requires DX12 though.

Well, there's your next job Andy. Get those features enabled and into the mainstream! :smile:

I'm on it boss... :tonguewink:

Ahh right. Windows store says "To use this app, you'll need a device with more features. For details, see Additional information > Hardware requirements."

Is this literally just dumbing down of PC games to the point where I can't even try it on my ~6 year old computer lol?

It's not dumbing down of PC games but it is new technology that simply requires newer hardware and features. As I understand it it's a bit of a 'showcase' to show the potential of Windows Store games and the evolving DirectX12 API (which still has a bit of a way to go in terms of playing nicely with PC setups and UWP).

 

[SharkyUK]

For all I know, that might be below the minimum required??

These are the outlined specs from the official website mate...

• MINIMUM SPECS - OS: 64 bit Windows 10 (v. 1511); CPU: Intel Core i3-4170 @ 3.7Ghz; Memory: 8 GB RAM (2 GB VRAM), GPU: Radeon R7 250X / GeForce GT 740 or equivalent; HD Space: 30 GB; DirectX 12
• RECOMMENDED SPECS (1080P @ 60FPS): Intel Core i7-3820 @ 3.6Ghz; Memory: 12 GB RAM (4 GB VRAM); GPU: Radeon R9 290X / GeForce 970; HD Space: 30 GB; DirectX 12; Microsoft Xbox One Controller
• IDEAL SPECS (4K @ 60FPS): Intel Core i7-6700k @ 4Ghz; Memory: 16 GB RAM (6+ GB VRAM); GPU: GeForce 980ti / Radeon Fury X; HD: SSD - 30 GB available space; DirectX 12

 

[Darren S]

These are the outlined specs from the official website mate...

• MINIMUM SPECS - OS: 64 bit Windows 10 (v. 1511); CPU: Intel Core i3-4170 @ 3.7Ghz; Memory: 8 GB RAM (2 GB VRAM), GPU: Radeon R7 250X / GeForce GT 740 or equivalent; HD Space: 30 GB; DirectX 12
• RECOMMENDED SPECS (1080P @ 60FPS): Intel Core i7-3820 @ 3.6Ghz; Memory: 12 GB RAM (4 GB VRAM); GPU: Radeon R9 290X / GeForce 970; HD Space: 30 GB; DirectX 12; Microsoft Xbox One Controller
• IDEAL SPECS (4K @ 60FPS): Intel Core i7-6700k @ 4Ghz; Memory: 16 GB RAM (6+ GB VRAM); GPU: GeForce 980ti / Radeon Fury X; HD: SSD - 30 GB available space; DirectX 12

Boo!

 

[Jonnio]

Older / earlier and some dodgy versions of Win10 don't have DX12 - you ideally need to be running the latest version (which will be the case if you've got a legit version and receiving the updates). Forza Motorsport Apex requires DX12 though.

It's not dumbing down of PC games but it is new technology that simply requires newer hardware and features. As I understand it it's a bit of a 'showcase' to show the potential of Windows Store games and the evolving DirectX12 API (which still has a bit of a way to go in terms of playing nicely with PC setups and UWP).

I had a quick look on Nvidia's site this morning and thought I'd found that my card was DX12 compatible, updated the drivers this morning. Shall have another look when I get home.

Only really wanted to try it with my wheel setup, which I've now found isn't supported yet! Would be nice to play Forza without having to buy an Xbox One. Doesn't really work if I have to spend money on the computer instead though lol.

Edit: Looks like I was wrong from this - http://www.geforce.co.uk/hardware/technology/dx12/supported-gpus

 

[SharkyUK]

IOnly really wanted to try it with my wheel setup, which I've now found isn't supported yet! Would be nice to play Forza without having to buy an Xbox One. Doesn't really work if I have to spend money on the computer instead though lol

Fingers crossed you can get it working mate. The release version of the game will have wheel support at some point (although the developers aren't giving a firm date as to when). They plan on supporting the most popular wheel / pedal setups.

 

[Jonnio]

So I've got a GTX 460.

This says it's not supported with a one page list - http://www.geforce.co.uk/hardware/technology/dx12/supported-gpus

This 6 pages list says it is and so does the product page lol? - http://www.geforce.com/hardware/technology/dx12/supported-gpus?field_gpu_type_value=All&page=2
http://www.geforce.com/hardware/desktop-gpus/geforce-gtx-460

Is there a way to install DirectX12 other than lettings Windows do it automatically?

 

[SharkyUK]

So I've got a GTX 460.

This says it's not supported with a one page list - http://www.geforce.co.uk/hardware/technology/dx12/supported-gpus

This 6 pages list says it is and so does the product page lol? - http://www.geforce.com/hardware/technology/dx12/supported-gpus?field_gpu_type_value=All&page=2
http://www.geforce.com/hardware/desktop-gpus/geforce-gtx-460

Is there a way to install DirectX12 other than lettings Windows do it automatically?

...and therein lies the confusion. It's all a bit confusing mate.

nVidia's Maxwell, Kepler and Fermi based cards support DX12 but that doesn't necessarily mean they support a full set of DX12 features. In fact, there aren't any graphics cards on the market that support all DX12 features as yet. Sadly Fermi based cards (which you have with the 460) will run under DX12 (as found in Win10) but it's unlikely the card will be able to support the DX12 features used by the game. Knowing a little bit about GPU technology I don't believe that Fermi-based GPU's are going to cut the mustard as mainstream gaming moves to DX12.

Existing DX11(.1) cards can take advantage of various driver and software technology that Win10 and DX12 brings, but to enjoy the full benefits of DX12 you will need to buy a DX12 card.

 

[Darren S]

I think the only thing that looks a bit weak in that clip above Andy - are the spray plumes from behind the wheels. They flicker and don't look 'right' - almost like four little white jets from some angles?

 

[Jonnio]

...and therein lies the confusion. It's all a bit confusing mate.

Cheers for explaining :up:. It's showing 11.3 on dxdiag.

Guess I'll be sticking to my current games for now! I'll be sure to ask for advice on here if I ever fancy a new computer though...

 

[Darren S]

Jonnio - the 460s were good cards in their day. I used to run two in SLi for quite a while. Still capable for general use - they will be struggling with the likes of Forza.

If you still want a capable racing game that the 460 can easily cope with - I'd recommend GTR2 and its sibling, Race '07. Graphically its aged, but it's still a challenging and rewarding game to play. It also has the 'Ring in it.

 

[BoatNonce]

If you still want a capable racing game that the 460 can easily cope with - I'd recommend GTR2 and its sibling, Race '07. Graphically its aged, but it's still a challenging and rewarding game to play. It also has the 'Ring in it.

I quite like Race 07. It's not even slightly accurate physics wise, but if you don't try going sideways a lot i.e. race cleanly it kinda takes care of the driving for you, leaving you to nail apex after apex and enjoy the sound and scenery.

Live For Speed is a very good simulator too, and will run on anything. It does swap its accuracy for old graphics though.

 

[Darren S]

Well, after leaving my PC on all night, the Beta had finished downloading this morning.

I have to say, it's bloody impressive for a Beta. Far more polished than Project Cars, I think it lacks the 'scariness' of it though. I use both the throttle and brake far less carefully in Forza - knowing that I can probably catch it if things start to go wrong. Forza clearly has a lot more on par with the likes of Gran Turismo than Project Cars, but that isn't necessarily a bad thing. With Project Cars, I can't play it well at all with the pad. I have to setup the Logitech wheel and be committed to playing it. With Forza, it's totally controllable with a 360 pad - and I think that's where it's 'quick 20 minutes' appeal will win over Project Cars.

As Andy says (@SharkyUK) - it's not yet capable of supporting multiple GPUs. How the hell Turn10 have got the game I played running on my PC using effectively just one GTX680 with 2GB is an amazing feat of programming. The game barely seemed to have any slow down - even in crowded corners. Strangely, the only issue I saw was the occasionally 'jerky' rear view in the mirror - yet what was out in front through the windscreen played really well indeed.

I'll be buying it for sure.

 

[Gareth]

Spa in the wet in the Le Mans cars is my new favourite, simply awesome.

 

[SharkyUK]

I think the only thing that looks a bit weak in that clip above Andy - are the spray plumes from behind the wheels. They flicker and don't look 'right' - almost like four little white jets from some angles?

Yes, they do look completely out of place. There are a few little glitches on some of the particle effects that hopefully will be addressed.

How the hell Turn10 have got the game I played running on my PC using effectively just one GTX680 with 2GB is an amazing feat of programming. The game barely seemed to have any slow down - even in crowded corners. Strangely, the only issue I saw was the occasionally 'jerky' rear view in the mirror - yet what was out in front through the windscreen played really well indeed.

I'll be buying it for sure.

Turn10 have done a very good job. They got Forza6 running beautifully on the Xbox One so I was expecting it to make a decent showing on the PC. With some decent programmers and artists, clever level / track design and sufficient time it shows what can be done.

As for the sometimes jerky rear view, this could be due to various things. I expect, when under load, the rear view may render at a lower frame rate than the main view (or they may be using some sort of dynamic optimisation that causes a slight stutter in the visuals when render states are changed on-the-fly in order to keep the overall frame rate on the main view as high as possible).

I'm looking forwards to playing the beta a little more and then getting the release version.