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Past owners of both Clio Williams and mk2 Renault Sports (long post)



Jamie

ClioSport Club Member
I have recently been thinking about selling mine for a MK2 Renault Sport but like Freebone am having difficulties commiting to either keeping or selling.

Due to getting older I think my tastes have changed and now desire a very low maintenace and quiet car for the commute to work and back. Although, when I do have time on a sunday or social time I really enjoy a good drive instead of a mandatory commutte.

However, I have several problems. The first being my car has always been reliable and have just got a yrs mot with no faults (so why sell?). The second is after an oil change and Reanult oil filter I now pull 3 bar @ 3k rpm and 4.5/5 bar(!) when hot and pushing it. This is a very good result indicating to me the engine is in good condition, a big risk I take when buying although newer Mk2 RS is i get a car with a more worn engine. To maintain my engine I also never drive directly from cold, also let it stand for a few mins both in the morning and at night, something I wouldnt prob do in a newer car which is probably what helps the pressure. And i know no-one would do this for my replacement. This is also a bit of a pain in the ass at night on the way home.

The other issue is my car has no renault service history as the book was lost by the previous owner and I only have a wad of invoices due to the previous owner being a mechanic and maintaing the car himself. However I still would hope to get 3k for mine and put a couple of extra k and getting an RS because i know its in good condition (91k miles, sure most of you know my car).

However if i did overcome the above issues and got a RS are they as special? You get a sense of occassion when driving the Williams and a lot of fun something and im not sure if a RS would be.

And alternativley I could make the williams even rawer and just get a cheap 2nd car for the extra cash required if i sold the Williams. But realistically I dont actually need one and not sure if i would just see this as a waste of money. Sort of thing i wouldnt know if it was right or wrong until i did it.

What do you all think. Seems there are an infinite amount of options.
 

Gaz_

ClioSport Club Member
  Extreme mode
Get a mint clean Cup. Be the closest in terms of feel to a williams, but with more refinement for the everyday commute. They are (with the Trophy) the best looking RS in standard form, in fact the Blue colour combined with the silver Turinis look so right imo. You wont have to worry about anything with one, turn the key and go. PM flaming monkey, he has a Willaims and Cup iirc :)
 

Daniel

ClioSport Moderator
  Whichever has fuel
I've got a daily runner phase 1 172 and a minter than mint Williams 3.

I've had 182's/197's/and phase 2 172's.

IMO, the Williams is far superior. Looks/drive and feel.

Stick with what you got son. :)
 

Jamie

ClioSport Club Member
A cup is one the RS's i wouldnt actually go for actually. I'm not a fan of those fabric seats tbh, looks pretty rank.

A few years ago i neally went for a FF 172 mk2 which i do really like esp the Iceberg silver ones. Or maybe a FF RB Cup if i saved for a bit would be my choices. Wish they put white dials and temp/pressure guages in them :(
 

Gaz_

ClioSport Club Member
  Extreme mode
Pfffftt silver?? That aint special ;) RB if you dont like the real Cup. BTW those fabric seats are the same as the FF jobs, but not covered in cheap leather! I found they held you in better with more grip being fabric!
 
  Clio Williams & 182
In an EVO review some time ago, they pitted the Willy and 172 against each other. The Willy came out top vs other hot hatches as well.

The Williams is an iconic car now, become legend, and eventually a myth. You cant beat a legend mate:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JxLVbIX78UA

I know what you are saying in terms of piece of mind etc, but it's Willy all the way for me, and with the support of sites like this and WC/16vavler you have notheing to worry about.

Up to you though...
 
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Jamie - A 172 cup mate, you can't go wrong with it fella! If I wasn't nursing the ligaments in my ankle back to health I would give you a blast in it.
 
Jamie get in touch with "TheJesus" he praises his old williams and now has a mk2 phase 1 172 and his gf has a phase 2 172. he would be able to give you a good description of what to expect.

Mark
 

Jamie

ClioSport Club Member
The thing is the williams has always been, touch wood reliable. So if i sold it would be for personal choice rather than neccessity. Just fancy it a bit quicker and modding a car is so expensive.

Yeh, seeing as you live 2mins away we should get a meet up and go for a drive or just have a chat or something.
 
  Polo GTi
As you know I have both, I do love my Cup but it sometimes feels its a little dull compared to the Williams, and recently thinking of chopping it in for a mint MK1, but I think a lot of it this is down to the Williams being modded, so is loud brash and is very quick, which the Cup doesnt do as its standard, I took Chris N Nics white cup for a spin again at the weekend, thats modded stripped loud and brash, and also very quick, hell of a lot closer to the Williams and weirdly makes me appriate my own Cup a lot more, and got me thinking of mods infact :D

If it was choice between the 2 it would be the Williams every day, the only downside of my Williams is the rot.

I feel happy that I own both and have the best of both worlds, but I appreciate not everyone can do this.

They are both great cars and both do things differently, I'd imagine a standard Williams and Standard Cup are very similar, but its been that long since I drove a standard Williams its hard to compare the 2 like for like.

Next time I'm at a meet your welcome to take the Cup for a spin to compare, no worries
 
  Sunflower & Golf Mk6 BMT
Pfffftt silver?? That aint special ;) RB if you dont like the real Cup. BTW those fabric seats are the same as the FF jobs, but not covered in cheap leather! I found they held you in better with more grip being fabric!


The cup seats are nothing like the leather ones! for starters they dont have air bags lol
 

Ali

  V6, Trackhawk, GTS
I wish the williams lived up to my expectation!!! Was a huge let down!

Mk2 is a great car to drive! The 197 even more so.
 

Jamie

ClioSport Club Member
I wish the williams lived up to my expectation!!! Was a huge let down!

Mk2 is a great car to drive! The 197 even more so.

Thats a new one, you slating the Williams. Always thought you loved them ;)
 

Nafoff

ClioSport Club Member
flaming monkey hits it on the head....

after the starlet not being what i wanted the only option left again for me was a mark 1, and thats what i would of gone for had it not been for mileage and rot in them now.

my valver was like your willy, i never had a problem with it, but i sold it for a very good price, i think i have now spent more on the 172 than i did on the valver in double the amount of time.

i am now stripping and making the 172 to create the same raw, brash feeling i had in the valver, f*ck the commute, i will put up with that.

i can remember when i use to say how good the valver was once i bought the mark 2 and people use to say i was talking balls, i now lol when i read back and people have changed there mind and share my view after driving both

is...you know my opinion even though i own a mark 2
 
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Gaz_

ClioSport Club Member
  Extreme mode
Pfffftt silver?? That aint special ;) RB if you dont like the real Cup. BTW those fabric seats are the same as the FF jobs, but not covered in cheap leather! I found they held you in better with more grip being fabric!


The cup seats are nothing like the leather ones! for starters they dont have air bags lol

I should know with having had a 172 Cup and a 182 FF. They are the same. The only thing extra the 172 ff/182 is lumbar adjustment and cheap leather/alacantra. Instead of airbags the cup seats are full of foam lol. Same shape/s**t support etc. The cup seats are lighter due to lack of airbags.
 

Ali

  V6, Trackhawk, GTS
I wish the williams lived up to my expectation!!! Was a huge let down!

Mk2 is a great car to drive! The 197 even more so.

Thats a new one, you slating the Williams. Always thought you loved them ;)

Loved it in a few ways...But the hype just wasn't justified! Kinda wish i'd kept mine regardless! But it paid off the vee so happy days!
 
Williams is a much better drive than all the other RS Clio's, if yours is mint and reliable then imo you're mad to even consider getting rid. The Mk2 Ph1 is considered the rawest of the Mk2's and its still not a patch on the Willy. Other thing is stock for stock my Williams is quicker than my Ph1, Laura's Ph1 and her Ph2 and nicer to drive, handles MUCH better and imo is much comfier as the seats are soo much more supportive.

Only thing that made me sell was it was starting to feel very old and I lost faith in it due to the problems I'd suffered. Personally if your not happy with the performance, then a Mk2 wont cure it, you'd be better just throwing some bodies on and leaving the rest stock and you have a car that will trounce most things.
 

Ali

  V6, Trackhawk, GTS
i'm going to get a mate of mine with a std williams to have a blast against a std 172! fed up of this "Std for std the car is quicker!" It's bloody not. It feels quicker initally coz of the sound and lightness of it, but it's not quicker through the gears!

Unless of course your names "john and jon!" lol
 
what will that prove Ali? That the Williams or 172 are quicker, or those particular examples one is quicker? You'd need to have 10 of each and take the best, as incase you hadn't noticed, the Williams is getting on a bit and even 4-5 years ago when I bought mine they were considered old and a classic.

Did you ever run your 172 on the Mk1 vs Mk2 days? iirc there's been 2 and guess which were quicker? No good posting times from Crail, 2 live's would have posted 12's there going down that big hill... lol

... PS, it's "Jon and Jon"... no 'h' in either name ;)
 
  williams and trophy
Get a mint clean Cup. Be the closest in terms of feel to a williams, but with more refinement for the everyday commute. They are (with the Trophy) the best looking RS in standard form, in fact the Blue colour combined with the silver Turinis look so right imo. You wont have to worry about anything with one, turn the key and go. PM flaming monkey, he has a Willaims and Cup iirc :)





more refined?? in what way?

the seats arent as comfy, the driving position isnt as good, slower, both have no air con no abs etc, the cup is very basic really, probably the best 172 version, but by no means more refined than a williams.

tbh mate. id stick with the williams and maybe get a cheap runabout for the commute, if you want comfort etc for not a lot of money, can pick 10 year old merc/audis etc up for less than a grand.

use the williams as the weekend toy ;)



u know it makes sense
 
lol, just noticed that! More refined my arse, the only thing more refined is the dash looks like it was made the century, but apart from that the Williams is a much nicer place to be. Better seats and better driving position, the 172's driving position is horrible and the seats may as well be made from wood.

I'd still prefer a Cup though day to day, only because it's newer.
 
  williams and trophy
and rob....0159 shud b on the road again very soon..all std back to standard now bar exhaust hehe. shud have a little play, 2 cups and the willy. ;)
 

Nafoff

ClioSport Club Member
sorry ali....all what has been said above is what i believe to be true also.....

the mark 1's for pretty much everything are superior....even for rot....lol
 

a.e

  GT3 RS, Caterham Duratec.
i'm going to get a mate of mine with a std williams to have a blast against a std 172! fed up of this "Std for std the car is quicker!" It's bloody not. It feels quicker initally coz of the sound and lightness of it, but it's not quicker through the gears!

Unless of course your names "john and jon!" lol

Ali your Williams had "issues" :rasp: The FK coilovers ruined pinky, it was too hard for fast road.

My Williams 3 was fair enough equal pace with pinky (192bhp 172) until after a 100mph. On a B or A road the Williams was the better car.

Anyway back to topic I'd keep the Williams and get a runabout. A good Williams is something with keeping.

Andrew
 

Jamie

ClioSport Club Member
Just seen the cost of cams, pulleys, headwork and a map including fitting and its a s**t load.

I would have done the above for £1200 ish may have to think again.

Just so much money for modding a car.
 
Stick with the willy and buy a shitter for the daily commute.
Your never going to make your commute exciting even if you had a Veyron, keep the Williams for special/ weekend use, your not going to lose money on it they are only appreciating.
 

Jamie

ClioSport Club Member
Stick with the willy and buy a s**tter for the daily commute.
Your never going to make your commute exciting even if you had a Veyron, keep the Williams for special/ weekend use, your not going to lose money on it they are only appreciating.


Very true.
 
95% of the driving I do in my own car I don't really enjoy, I don't care what anyone says sat in traffic is not fun, if its just getting from A to B or work or something when your not thinking about how to approach a corner or practicing your down changes you may as well be in anything.
106 diesel with a decent sterio for day to day driving would be ideal.
 

Ali

  V6, Trackhawk, GTS
lol. I've had my opinion. I stick by it!

The williams was cool as f**k! But wasnt safe nor as much fun as the 172!!! On the road or track!

Call me boring...But thats my honestly feeling!

You cant take my opinion away from me!

Andrew, i doubt you kept up till 100! 80maybe! lol
 


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