PAS removal on 172 cup

nightSpirit · Feb 15, 2012

Hi all,

I am planning on replacing my rack with one I have from a dci. I'm currently in the process of removing the pas pump. What's the best way to do this? I've loosened the alternator and removed the belt, there are 2 13 mm bolts on the pump itself but it appears that the pulley gets in the way and stops you getting the bolts out? Any ideas?

Dave Hester · Feb 15, 2012

Pm MarkCup he has done it on his

Andyman · Feb 15, 2012

Pretty sure you have to remove the PAS pulley

Pop the belt back on so you can slacken off the bolt holding it on or remove the whole mount with pump and shove the pulley in a vice and slacken off

nightSpirit · Feb 16, 2012

Andyman said:
Pretty sure you have to remove the PAS pulley

Pop the belt back on so you can slacken off the bolt holding it on or remove the whole mount with pump and shove the pulley in a vice and slacken off

That's right, I removed the 3 10mm bolts holding the pulley on and could then access the bolts holding the pump on, all the bolts (3) are now removed and the low pressure hose and bottle are off. The high pressure line will be off at the weekend (couldn't get access to the rack due to low light). I've noticed though that the top bolt hole/spindle on the pas pump is pressed in as per the top bolt/spindle on the alternator. Any ideas how to remove that? if I can get that pressed spindle out the pump will come straight off.

On a side note, there was ZERO fluid in the bottle, hadn't been for some time it appears...around 1ltr in the pipes though but only a matter of time before the pump would have pissed all the fluid away anyway.

nightSpirit · Feb 20, 2012

Ok an update, Id missed 1 bolt from the pump...then it fell off, I made a new new bracket for the alternator as I ditched the pas bracket also. Steering rack should out tomorrow night now its free from the column

Fred@BTM · Feb 20, 2012

put the PAS back on, its s**t without it!

mr.pink87 · Feb 21, 2012

No it isn't!

nightSpirit · Feb 21, 2012

Why do you say that Fred?

It's lighter, engine power is liberated, steering feel is usually improved (not experienced it yet on a Clio), low speed manouvering is more difficult but at track speeds where this car will mostly live it's a benefit not a drawback.

I was thinking of wiring up the electric rack to a switch on the dash to get the best of both worlds...has anyone done this? does anyone know what the 4 wires are responsible for coming off the rack? (1 live, 1 earth..but the other 2).

Fred@BTM · Feb 21, 2012

I did it to mine and its rubbish!!

mr.pink87 · Feb 21, 2012

I did it to mine and it's fine (on track aswell). Seems to be driver dependent.

Fred@BTM · Feb 21, 2012

i must have weak arms

sammyhale22 · Feb 21, 2012

I do agree with Fred. I`ve had mine off and on about 3 times now and I finally decided after testing with RS Tuner, and it making an extra 1bhp(If that!) difference to power that I should keep it on(the extra power it gives you is all in your head)! As far as I`m aware most racing cars use PAS as standard because it makes the handling quicker and more responsive!
Yes removing it improves road feel through the wheels.... but makes correcting mistakes on the track(or public roads) difficult, if not dangerous!

mr.pink87 · Feb 21, 2012

sammyhale22 said:
I do agree with Fred. I`ve had mine off and on about 3 times now and I finally decided after testing with RS Tuner, and it making an extra 1bhp(If that!) difference to power that I should keep it on(the extra power it gives you is all in your head)! As far as I`m aware most racing cars use PAS as standard because it makes the handling quicker and more responsive!
Yes removing it improves road feel through the wheels.... but makes correcting mistakes on the track(or public roads) difficult, if not dangerous!

If the clio had a weight of >1.5t, i'd agree. But on a light car it's not necessary imo. Never had problems on track, road or in a driver training (where you need to work quite hard on the steering). Also mind that older cars never came with PAS and were road-safe aswell.
Just out of interest: Did you use the PAS-rack running dry or a proper Non-Pas rack?

Jonny1*2 · Feb 21, 2012

which non-PAS rack did you use Pink?

mr.pink87 · Feb 21, 2012

Clio DCI EPAS rack with 172 steering arms.

Jonny1*2 · Feb 21, 2012

mr.pink87 said:
Clio DCI EPAS rack with 172 steering arms.

Is that mk2? Thought all mk2 had pas

Ryan218 · Feb 21, 2012

Dci racks are have electric pas

mr.pink87 · Feb 21, 2012

Yep, PAS motor is on the column. The rack itself is short geared and manual. About the same amount of turns from lock to lock than standard.

Fred@BTM · Feb 21, 2012

DCi rack is the same as 1.2 16V BTW

Iceberg_172 · Feb 21, 2012

Dont most race cars use quick racks? Can you get them for clio's?

mr.pink87 · Feb 22, 2012

Fred@BTM said:
DCi rack is the same as 1.2 16V BTW

And the same as the 1.4/1.6 16V rack.

chrispy.clio · Feb 24, 2012

I removed the pas on my 182, kept the standard rack too. It's really good, I,be driven the car on the road and on track and it's really good. All about personal preference tho, it's not for everyone!

nightSpirit · Feb 25, 2012

Update...I had a mobile mechanic come out to remove the PAS rack on Thursday as I'd ran out of time and patience, took him no time at all as the steering column, track rods etc were removed. He dropped the rear of the subframe to get it out.

Today I offered up the manual rack to the car and it went in with no issues, steering column connected up from the engine bay side! so much more room now to get to the cat etc. I didn't fancy the track rod ends that came with the rack and mine had some play so I've ordered a new set for the 172/82 from Ebay. I'd rather go genuine parts for such things, hopefully they'll last longer.

I'm also going to get a set of the KTR engine mounts (already poly bushed the dogbone) as the drivers side has a fair bit of play.

Cheers for the advice and opinions.

Andy 172 · Apr 21, 2012

Hi looking at doing this, how did the car drive after changing to none pas?

Tony Hunter · Apr 21, 2012

We put a a switch on ours, to turn it on or off. It's never off. It's pants without.

MullyBaby · Apr 22, 2012

What's involved in putting an electric rack onto a 182? How does it all wire up?

Jay Payne · Apr 22, 2012

The coloum is electricly assisted, wouldnt even dream of the idea tbh

MullyBaby · Apr 22, 2012

Jay Payne said:
The coloum is electricly assisted, wouldnt even dream of the idea tbh

Yours is hydraulically assisted from a Saxo? I like the idea of it not running of the aux belt but I take it that method was pretty involved?

Jay Payne · Apr 22, 2012

Standard hydralic 172 rack with saxo electic pump instead of belt driven pump. Fitting involves making custom lines or joining whats already there. Finding somewhere to put it and some wiring.

http://burpspeedblog.wordpress.com/2009/11/18/power-steering/

MullyBaby · Apr 22, 2012

Jay Payne said:
Standard hydralic 172 rack with saxo electic pump instead of belt driven pump. Fitting involves making custom lines or joining whats already there. Finding somewhere to put it and some wiring.

http://burpspeedblog.wordpress.com/2009/11/18/power-steering/

Thanks for that Jay, something to consider I think

Jay Payne · Apr 22, 2012

Cup race cars ran a similiar setup (electric pump)

nightSpirit · Apr 22, 2012

Does the Clio use column assist? You say you have done it on a switch, is that just the full eps setup with a breaker or have you wired up an eps rack to have a set voltage? I was thinking of doing this just for low speed manoeuvrability.

MullyBaby · Apr 22, 2012

nightSpirit said:
Does the Clio use column assist? You say you have done it on a switch, is that just the full eps setup with a breaker or have you wired up an eps rack to have a set voltage? I was thinking of doing this just for low speed manoeuvrability.

Me too, im currently looking into a DCI rack (same amount of turns) and wiring it up, I've heard someone has managed to do this with just a power supply and the speedo signal from the ABS?

Tony Hunter · Apr 23, 2012

It's on or off. Thats it.

nightSpirit · Apr 23, 2012

When you say on or off Tony do you mean the oem system (with all the torque/speed adjustment) is switched on/off or do you mean that the system is hard wired with no torque/speed adjustment...(steering ecu?)

Tony Hunter · Apr 23, 2012

We have a standard rack with a Saxo pump. We just have a switch t hat turns it on or off, that's it, nothing complicated.

nightSpirit · Apr 23, 2012

Ah ok, not what I had in mind. Anyone tell me what the plug is for on the dci rack if it's steering column assisted?

mr.pink87 · Apr 24, 2012

Steering angle/torque sensor on the rack. ECU calculates the correct amount of power assistance from it's signal.

PAS removal on 172 cup

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