my ph1 - TO BUILD or BREAK

[Nafoff]

i have entertained this thought before, but always persevered, but now i seem to be at this point and unsure what to do...
i thought i would open it up to the masses for an opinion, i know at the end of the day its my decision but getting others people views sometimes helps...

so i have had my ph1 for 5 years, 2 years ago it came off the road and since then the project escalated and escalated to the point i am at now. I have another car so relying on it for work etc is not in the equation. I was planning on using the car (once built) for trackdays and ultimately Hillclimbs, however initially it would still currently be road legal.

The build has gradually got harder as a year ago i was forced out of a job and had to relocate for another job (which i didn't enjoy), this meant a fair journey each way to work on it, but i persevered. The car is located at a friends bodyshop and until now i have done pretty much all the work myself (and i am not paying for the space). Now this was fine as i could work on it on weekends, however i have now got a new job that i start on monday. But it means relocating, so i will be lodging mon-fri away from home, this meaning that i will probably be spending the weekends back at home with my GF (fair enough), and therefore meaning i will have no time to work on the clio.

This means from now on the clio will pretty much, need to be paid for, and that is what concerns me. I have some funds behind me that could fund the rest of the build, but i am unsure to what extent, i chatted it over with my painter/sprayer mate who would be doing the work and he said "are you sure thats what you want to do?, have you thought about breaking it for parts?" and that is what brings me to this point.....so my options are as follows....


Option 1: Carry on the build.
this is how the car currently sits,

the problem is is that pretty much every panel needs some attention and the interior definitely needs painting, there is a bit of rust to contend with and some dings and dents, so even if i was to do a half decent job on paint those panels would need work. I think i have all the other parts ready to go back on, to quite a high spec, cage, polycarb windows, dash2 digi dash, jenvey throttle bodies, custom radiator and airbox set-up...unused semi-slicks, the list goes on.... but this leaves me this very rough list to work through to get it done... (but this is best case scenario...)

get the shell welded up, painted inside and out to a pretty good standard - approx £3500
get a new windscreen - approx £200
get an exhaust - approx £500
get new engine loom and mapping - ££££

...so i guess its easily another £5k to get it sorted.
however once i have moved for my new job i will be living 15 mins from silverstone and 15 mins from bedford....


Option 2: Break the car
as you can see the car is in the best position to break currently, as appose to spending more money on the project i could cut my losses and i approximately think i could get around £10k back from the build and the quality parts i have. i think i would miss not having a fun car so think i would end up buying something else, but i feel it would be a waste of 2 years very hard work.... I am currently not saving for a house, i don't have a kid on the way etc etc but the money would be nice....
its a really hard decision and something i really don't know how to address, it would be great to hear different views etc, i know ultimately its my decision and money but hearing other views, ideas etc etc would be great

 

[Daniel]

Need. Neeeeeeed. NEEEEEEEEEED!!

You started something, you need to finish it.

Would you fcuk Naomi and pull out before you shot your load? Of course not. This is no different.

 

[Stu.]

Man up & finish it, You've done so much to throw the towel in.

 

[Fraser.J.]

Man up & finish it, You've done so much to throw the towel in.

+1

 

[B16DOE]

Put ya money in to getting that mk1 escort finished

 

[Daniel]

You need a sam. I'd have given up a long long time ago if it wasn't for him! lol.

 

[.GAZ.]

FFS.

 

[Rob]

You're all wrong.

Get rid mate. Put it all back together, sell the wheels to someone who'll make the most of them, and sell it as a rolling shell or pop the engine in and sell as a running track project.

You sound like you've lost the love, and TBH with how much things slowed down, I get the feeling it's just a niggling annoyance at the back of your mind.

Get rid, move on, if you ever get into the position again where you want to do something similar and you've got the time, start again. It's not like you've really put a LOT of your time into it to get it where it is now. You had a lot done before, but that's all undone now really, right?

 

[JackJack]

Finish it.

 

[Daniel]

You don't understand Rob.

A man cannot undertake a project and just give up. Fair enough he's got a lot going on in life, we all have. So garage it and come back to it when you're ready. Me and boner have had many a late night talk about this bloody car and my point still stands. If it takes 12 weeks, if it takes 12 years, the car needs to be finished and finished properly.

Otherwise he'll just be that bloke that started off one of the country's best phase 1's but gave up because he couldn't be bothered.

 

[Rob]

But he's "finished" it on various other occasions right? It's not like it's never been to a good standard and he's been waiting on making it great forever.

I do understand, but it's a lot of money to have tied up in something he clearly doesn't love any more.

 

[Ash87]

Finish it!

 

[Daniel]

Its not about the money! You're missing the point.

He started the project with a goal. He hasn't achieved that goal. So why is he stopping? Its down to enthusiasm and a lack of drive. He just needs a good mate to go there with him for a weekend to get a good dose of work done to it to boost his enthusiasm.

 

[bomber]

As you know in today's texts I genuinely am in two minds. However this thread has also changed my opinion slightly, as much as I see where Rob is going (which is similar to whaty texts have said) I also see Dan's point of view, to the point where I once again wish I had just left my ph1 in a lockup for two years and come back with some enthusiasm again. Ah ffs

 

[Gray]

I don't think Neil has lost the love for the car, it's more the circumstances that have lead to this.....

Once finished this will be theeeeee best MK2 Clio ever IMO.

If you break the car you'll be gutted after the time effort and memories that go with it, we've got another road trip to go on!!!

You know me and Bomber will help with any of the 'labour' building the car back up with you.

But yeah, it's a tough choice mate.... An extra 5K to spend isn't a small amount.

Like I said earlier, if you had the money, time and was close to the car would you do it without thinking or not?

Thats my rambling over for now...

 

[Gray]

I also see Dan's point of view, to the point where I once again wish I had just left my ph1 in a lockup for two years and come back with some enthusiasm again. Ah ffs

Just what I was thinking..... Wish I had stuck mine in a garage for 2yrs and come back to it with a f**king hard on and renewed enthusiasm!

http://www.danfreemanphotography.com/blog/2010/08/fast-car-mag-euro-road-trip-feature/

 

[Nafoff]

But he's "finished" it on various other occasions right? It's not like it's never been to a good standard and he's been waiting on making it great forever.
I do understand, but it's a lot of money to have tied up in something he clearly doesn't love any more.

Its not about the money! You're missing the point.

He started the project with a goal. He hasn't achieved that goal. So why is he stopping? Its down to enthusiasm and a lack of drive. He just needs a good mate to go there with him for a weekend to get a good dose of work done to it to boost his enthusiasm.

tbh i think your probably both wrong, i am just trying to figure out what is sensible....

i know 100% i would want something else to mess around in if i decided to break this, what else could i get for say £5k (half of what i think i could make if i broke it)
i couldn't live with just the DCi, I drive the DCi with a fair bit of enthusiasm and from watching various videos of racing etc etc, looking at pictues of track/race cars it does give me a buzz and inspires me to do more and get it done, I am pretty sure i haven't lost the love guys, its just being tested...

money is a fair part of it,
its a lot to get done, perhaps i don't need it painted to that standard but i am unsure of another way i could do it tbh,

 

[Chris205]

Bit of a tough one really, one thing I dont understand is why you'd want to spend £3500 on the prep, welding and painting of the car, only to go and lash it round a track/hillclimb. If it's a show car you want then fair do's, if its a fun car you want keep it tidy but dont blow shitloads of money on the paint job.

Why not just break it, buy a trophy and go thrash it round on a weekend and at tracks. You'll even have plenty of cash left to stick a blower on the trophy to liven up the party

 

[Daniel]

money is a fair part of it,
its a lot to get done, perhaps i don't need it painted to that standard but i am unsure of another way i could do it tbh,

Do what i'm doing. Just get it mechanically spot on. Then, when its winter time and there's nothing else to do, strip it down (2 days work, tops) send it for paint, refit it. The summer time is for track days and beer gardens. The winter time is time for messing about with cars.

I think you're trying to do too much at once. I don't mean this in a nast way, but you're not skilled enough to do that. If you were a painter/mechanic etc then its all just nuts and bolts but this is your pride and joy and you're taking too long to do it, which in turn is kerbing your enthusiasm.

 

[Nafoff]

Bit of a tough one really, one thing I dont understand is why you'd want to spend £3500 on the prep, welding and painting of the car, only to go and lash it round a track/hillclimb. If it's a show car you want then fair do's, if its a fun car you want keep it tidy but dont blow s**tloads of money on the paint job.
Why not just break it, buy a trophy and go thrash it round on a weekend and at tracks. You'll even have plenty of cash left to stick a blower on the trophy to liven up the party

with regards to the paint, thats my thoughts,
i think i would need to sort the rust, and possibly the different coloured sill....

if i was to sell up and buy something else, i am unsure if it would be another clio, unless it was an ex cup racer or something, i don't think there are many other cars on the forum/or built in the uk that would be to a similar spec to what i am building...

 

[Daniel]

i don't think there are many other cars on the forum/or built in the uk that would be to a similar spec to what i am building...

Just being picky, but you haven't done any building yet. All you've done is take apart.

 

[Gray]

Once the shell is painted etc. I reckon we could build the car up over a long weekend, obviously if all the parts are there.

 

[Nafoff]

Do what i'm doing. Just get it mechanically spot on. Then, when its winter time and there's nothing else to do, strip it down (2 days work, tops) send it for paint, refit it. The summer time is for track days and beer gardens. The winter time is time for messing about with cars.
I think you're trying to do too much at once. I don't mean this in a nast way, but you're not skilled enough to do that. If you were a painter/mechanic etc then its all just nuts and bolts but this is your pride and joy and you're taking too long to do it, which in turn is kerbing your enthusiasm.

tbf this year is a write off anyways for potential track days, what with canada and then moving house etc
i don't really think there is too much left to do on my side of things,

its bodywork (which i can't do),
then once thats sorted and the engines sorted - re-assembly
and then off to matt for loom and cal...

unless you mean the job, house, car etc.....
but on that note you can't control all that stuff.... it will always be bad timing.

Just being picky, but you haven't done any building yet. All you've done is take apart.

lol.....i removed and stripped down the subframe, then REBUILT it with powerflex mounts and bushes, then refitted it...if you want to be picky...lol

 

[Chris205]

Sort the rust and spray it satin black with some naughty rattle cans. Much easier to repaint if you have a sight seeing moment whilst on track lol.

I never understand why people blow £0000's of pounds on silly parts for their track cars that fundimentally make no real difference, all you need is a good set of suspension, brakes and tyres. You'll have more fun IMO just learning about the car and improving your skills through tuition

 

[Daniel]

But to some people (me included) the fun is in the building of it.

 

[Nafoff]

Sort the rust and spray it satin black with some naughty rattle cans. Much easier to repaint if you have a sight seeing moment whilst on track lol.
I never understand why people blow £0000's of pounds on silly parts for their track cars that fundimentally make no real difference, all you need is a good set of suspension, brakes and tyres. You'll have more fun IMO just learning about the car and improving your skills through tuition

the other thing is once you have taken it this far you kind of want to do everything right, i 100% understand that something looking good won't help with your car control or speeds etc but whats wrong with having both.... (but its not about that at this current point).

 

[TimR26]

What was your plan if you hadn't relocated? Was your sprayer mate doing all the bodywork anyway?

If you're not doing trackdays this year what's the rush. I'm sure with a bit of planning and help you'd get it finished by early next year.

 

[david hodson]

Finish it , does everyone not go through this low stage at some point in a big build?

 

[GeorgeH]

Paints the only thing you dont need to put it on track. So build it for track this year, then as dan said paint it in the winter.

 

[Silent_Scone]

You don't understand Rob.

A man cannot undertake a project and just give up. Fair enough he's got a lot going on in life, we all have. So garage it and come back to it when you're ready. Me and boner have had many a late night talk about this bloody car and my point still stands. If it takes 12 weeks, if it takes 12 years, the car needs to be finished and finished properly.

Otherwise he'll just be that bloke that started off one of the country's best phase 1's but gave up because he couldn't be bothered.

Exactly, that is exactly what it is! Giving up! I've thought on more than one occasions the same as you, but you will regret it for years to come mate. You've come this far and then you just suddenly say "Nah I'm going to throw the towel in"

What a waste of 3 years. That's how you've got to look at it...Along with the obvious fact it's going to be an awesome car when it's done.



Go away and listen to some power ballads or something lol

 

[welshname]

Keep at it. You'll only regret not completing it, and lets face is. Whats the rush to get it done so soon? A project is just that, a project. Most peoples cars are off the road a LOT longer than 2 years when they are doing builds.

Just take it slowly and get the job done.

 

[Christopher]

No chance. Keep it and finish it... you're 80% there anyway.

How come you didn't enjoy T911, Neil? More of the same crap?

 

[frenchthing]

4years and counting on my 106....

There will always be something in your life needing your time,money and energy other than the car.. all you can do is plod on as best as possible.. or quit..

The decision however has to be yours... only you know your financial/motivational circumstances..

 

[BIGASH]

Neil I came back into the house last night from a 5 hour stint of laying under the car on freezing cold concrete, getting WD40 in my eyes and thread lock on my fingers so I feel perfectly placed to give my opinion on this matter

I am of the same feeling as Bomber, I think both options have there positives and negatives.

Realistically I think if you pay £3500 for the paint then to get the car finished to how I think you want it you'd be looking at a total of nearer 6k rather than 5k just because of all the small things that add up. Is £3500 the actual price to do the work as I think that is quite high I was quoted £2200 by my bodyshop guy to do the inside and outside and that was to include labour to strip down etc, his work is top notch so I'm not sure how yours is so much more

Is it all worth the money?? Probably not, you could go out and buy a complete car and have just as much fun driving it, but I did my project because I wanted to do the whole process of build, develop and drive. For this reason I accepted it was going to cost me more money and dealt with that. You need to decide that you are happy to spend more money than is required to get a similar final outcome for the privilege of building it yourself.

I know what you mean about why can't you have a car that is both a track ***** and also pretty and that is what I went into my project with the aim of. Everyone told me it will never last and sure enough it hasn't, as much as it kills me to say it it's just not practical. My car has done a few track days and one race and is covered in stone chips, chipped windscreen, damaged wheels from brakes, knackered bearings and curb clipping. I fully respect you for wanting to make it mint but if you are going to use it how I expect you will then you will spend forever taking it apart and repainting this and that. The only reason I went with the wrap is because I knew that if it was painted and I dunked it in the gravel trap and it got stone chipped to death then I would strip it down and start making it mint again!

The money is the biggest hurdle with all these projects I speak from experience and have sunk so much money into it and on the bad days I think to myself what the f**k have I done spending X amount on a crappy french car but then you get in the crappy french car and it works it's awesome! The problem you are having is you haven't driven said crappy french car for years now and have forgotten what it was like. The good days such as my race for me the other week have made the whole project for me worth it including all the bad times! If you want to carry on with your project then we need to get you back on the clio wavelength, come along to a trackday and have a drive of mine and although I can't promise it will be as good as driving your own car it will probably help you make up your mind weather you want to pursue carrying on with the project!

Overall I think you should see the project through, yes it is a lot of money to get it finished but i'm sure realistically you kinda knew from the start it wasn't going to be cheap. I personally would be tempted to just look into other options for the painting and see if you can save some £££. I just think that you have already spent so much money on the car and if you do sell it then you will buy something else and spend an equal amount on it! As you know I owe you a favour or two so I am more than happy to come down as a few others have offered and help with the car, also trailering the car from place to place if required. I have a spare space next my clio in the garage if you ever need anywhere to store it while you go away etc. Anything I can do to help then just holla Let's help you get this thing finished!

 

[dmallett]

Finish it, I wouldn't bother with paint though.

Just get it working and thrash the s**t out of it, im sure you'll regain some love.

 

[welshname]

Agreed on the paint. Just get it wrapped, that way it's so much cheaper to replace a bumper/wing when you inevitably make contact with someone/something on track.

 

[Revels]

Need. Neeeeeeed. NEEEEEEEEEED!!

You started something, you need to finish it.

Would you fcuk Naomi and pull out before you shot your load? Of course not. This is no different.

Fatty is spot on.

Don't you dare sell it.

 

[Nafoff]

Overall I think you should see the project through, yes it is a lot of money to get it finished but i'm sure realistically you kinda knew from the start it wasn't going to be cheap. I personally would be tempted to just look into other options for the painting and see if you can save some £££. I just think that you have already spent so much money on the car and if you do sell it then you will buy something else and spend an equal amount on it! As you know I owe you a favour or two so I am more than happy to come down as a few others have offered and help with the car, also trailering the car from place to place if required. I have a spare space next my clio in the garage if you ever need anywhere to store it while you go away etc. Anything I can do to help then just holla Let's help you get this thing finished!

you definitely speak alot of sense james, but as of yet you owe me nothing...lol
I have been thinking of other approaches to the shell, ie wrapping it etc, can i ask how much your wrap set you back? (pm if you like),
i have put a feeler out to a friend of a friend who is just about to set-up by himself wrapping so could work out.... we will see...

Agreed on the paint. Just get it wrapped, that way it's so much cheaper to replace a bumper/wing when you inevitably make contact with someone/something on track.

see above...lol

 

[Gray]

I could wrap it in cling film for you?

 

[Jay Payne]

Why did you take it apart in the first place? Genuine question as ive not been following