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Lumpy idle / tick over on 182
- Thread starter Davyboy888
- Start date
Renault Clio RS 182
2003 Clio 172
So, I don't think I want to go back to my garage now............I have left it too long IMO.
On that, can anyone specifically recommend somewhere or someone in NI who can sort my timing and sort it right? Either that or someone in Scotland......could probably stretch to that ferry as it is generally reasonable.
The Liverpool boat is way more expensive and takes forever.
J
On that, can anyone specifically recommend somewhere or someone in NI who can sort my timing and sort it right? Either that or someone in Scotland......could probably stretch to that ferry as it is generally reasonable.
The Liverpool boat is way more expensive and takes forever.
J
bit of a misconception but there is no dephaser kick.
Renault Clio RS 182
You're right, sorry. I ought to have said that the dephaser operation was as expected. Variable valve timing via cam phasing is not the same as the adjustable valve lift [e.g. on a VTec].
Renault Clio RS 182
2003 Clio 172
Clio 172
If you're really stuck could you get the ferry to Holyhead and visit Reno-Tech in Llandudno? Not used them but heard good things.
Plenty of good roads round here too, or you could book a TD at Anglesey make a weekend of it!
2003 Clio 172
Ok......so.......please feel free to abuse me here.............but I am trying to think my way round this and understand the process.
Hypothetically.......
- my belt is fitted and currently under the correct tension - right?
- when i lock my crank using the factory approved drillbi.........renault tool..........the exhaust side cam looks to be on point but the inlet cam is out a fraction. I would say the horse shoe would not go in at all.
- I understand that I cannot correct this as it sits as i fundamentally need to loosen the dephaser pulley, which I cannot do as the timing is out. Would it be in the realms of possibility to use something holding the cam end (where the tool goes) to counteract me loosening this pulley? Or is that a risk of damaging or stretching the belt?
- in my head and probably very wrong, if the inlet pulley was loosened, then all that would be needed would be the horse shoe to put them in timing. Is that right? I also understand that weak horse shoes bend when tightening so that is the risk. The tool that bolts on to the face of the pulleys, is that to allow tightening or tensioning?
Sorry for the brain fart, just trying to understand.
Is this normally (incorrect timing) and aux belt off/all covers off/crank pulley off/all tools on affair?
J
Hypothetically.......
- my belt is fitted and currently under the correct tension - right?
- when i lock my crank using the factory approved drillbi.........renault tool..........the exhaust side cam looks to be on point but the inlet cam is out a fraction. I would say the horse shoe would not go in at all.
- I understand that I cannot correct this as it sits as i fundamentally need to loosen the dephaser pulley, which I cannot do as the timing is out. Would it be in the realms of possibility to use something holding the cam end (where the tool goes) to counteract me loosening this pulley? Or is that a risk of damaging or stretching the belt?
- in my head and probably very wrong, if the inlet pulley was loosened, then all that would be needed would be the horse shoe to put them in timing. Is that right? I also understand that weak horse shoes bend when tightening so that is the risk. The tool that bolts on to the face of the pulleys, is that to allow tightening or tensioning?
Sorry for the brain fart, just trying to understand.
Is this normally (incorrect timing) and aux belt off/all covers off/crank pulley off/all tools on affair?
J
2003 Clio 172
100% in the locking hole bud. Checked with timing marks on the flywheel.
Don't have a pin......trying to see if anyone has a proper kit local.
Also checked slightly before and after tdc and there is no point where the top cam marks run straight. With my seeming drillbit-tdc the exhaust is on point.
Last edited:
Renault Clio RS 182
@jinjur The racing guys I know use Martin Tracey (Westward Engineering) in Enfield Co. Meath. He does tuning and engine building and they highly recommend him. You can reach him at http://www.westwardeng.com. Hope that works out OK.
2003 Clio 172
Renault Clio RS 182
@jinjur Just to but into your's and @bloke 's conversation there. A few points :
o There are two Renault 'factory' pins. The one for the 2.0 F4R is quite specific and is a single bore cylinder from the handle to the end. There's another one produced by Renault that has two cylindrical bores and that allows crank movement.
o The biggest issue here is holding those two pulleys absolutely stationary when you loosen or tighten the fasteners at the end. Unless you have the correct tool, do not attempt to do it. That's where I went wrong. The belt buckled the tiniest amount and that was enough to knock my timing out.
o Looking at the two slits in the camshafts can be deceptive. You need the horseshoe there to line them up. The other thing to bear in mind that when the horseshoe's out and the cam pulleys are loose, the camshaft(s) will naturally move as the valve train is under spring tension and pushing to rotate them. So, when you loosen the pulleys, fit and secure the horseshoe, then secure the pulleys with the tool and tighten the nut/bolt.
o There are two Renault 'factory' pins. The one for the 2.0 F4R is quite specific and is a single bore cylinder from the handle to the end. There's another one produced by Renault that has two cylindrical bores and that allows crank movement.
o The biggest issue here is holding those two pulleys absolutely stationary when you loosen or tighten the fasteners at the end. Unless you have the correct tool, do not attempt to do it. That's where I went wrong. The belt buckled the tiniest amount and that was enough to knock my timing out.
o Looking at the two slits in the camshafts can be deceptive. You need the horseshoe there to line them up. The other thing to bear in mind that when the horseshoe's out and the cam pulleys are loose, the camshaft(s) will naturally move as the valve train is under spring tension and pushing to rotate them. So, when you loosen the pulleys, fit and secure the horseshoe, then secure the pulleys with the tool and tighten the nut/bolt.
2003 Clio 172
Hey bud......yeah......I don't want to make a mess here.......I am just trying to get my head round it as I am fairly competent with cars. Old Civic's D16's and B16's I could turn the belt job round in an hour or 2 but this is obviously a-lot more to chew.
The real mingin' part of the work has been done to mine (i.e. replacing everything) and I am just trying to assess just how bad a job remains to fix the timing.
Looks like the job would only need the upper timing cover off and would I be right in saying that only the top pulleys would need to be loosened to fix the bad timing seeing as the belt is already under the correct tension and the bottom crank bolt already replaced etc?
The way I see it (probably wrong) is that the ONLY thing that needs to move here are the cams. Lock the belt to the crank and re-align?
If i had the tools now, I would:
Strip all the things until the top cam cover is off.
Pin the crank into tdc
Fit the pulley tool and lock them both
Loosen the top pulley bolts
Use something to bring the inlet cam back into line (maybe the tool)
Fit the horse shoe tool
Don't worry about tension as the belts are already tensioned and I haven't changed that
Tighten the pulleys to proper torque (still locked with pulley tool)
Remove all the locking things
Turn the engine over completely a few times with the crank
Bring it all back into line
Pin the crank into tdc
Verify that horse shoe goes in without force
How does that sound?
J
The real mingin' part of the work has been done to mine (i.e. replacing everything) and I am just trying to assess just how bad a job remains to fix the timing.
Looks like the job would only need the upper timing cover off and would I be right in saying that only the top pulleys would need to be loosened to fix the bad timing seeing as the belt is already under the correct tension and the bottom crank bolt already replaced etc?
The way I see it (probably wrong) is that the ONLY thing that needs to move here are the cams. Lock the belt to the crank and re-align?
If i had the tools now, I would:
Strip all the things until the top cam cover is off.
Pin the crank into tdc
Fit the pulley tool and lock them both
Loosen the top pulley bolts
Use something to bring the inlet cam back into line (maybe the tool)
Fit the horse shoe tool
Don't worry about tension as the belts are already tensioned and I haven't changed that
Tighten the pulleys to proper torque (still locked with pulley tool)
Remove all the locking things
Turn the engine over completely a few times with the crank
Bring it all back into line
Pin the crank into tdc
Verify that horse shoe goes in without force
How does that sound?
J
Renault Clio RS 182
@jinjur One more thing before I jump off... just noticed a guy with a racing 172 on FB called Leslie Graham who has photos and footage of himself at Kirkistown. It would be worthwhile making contact with him to find out who does his engine work.
https://www.facebook.com/Magpie9000
https://www.facebook.com/Magpie9000
2003 Clio 172
Aaaaahaahhh.......solid detective work there Davy....CHEERS!
See this point Davy? "That's where I went wrong. The belt buckled the tiniest amount and that was enough to knock my timing out.".....how can that happen if the belt is tensioned? Is that the belt stretching or something?
J
See this point Davy? "That's where I went wrong. The belt buckled the tiniest amount and that was enough to knock my timing out.".....how can that happen if the belt is tensioned? Is that the belt stretching or something?
J
Renault Clio RS 182
Renault Clio RS 182
No it was the crap tool not holding the pulleys stationery.
Ol’ Tarby
ClioSport Moderator
Clio 220 Trophy
Leslie is also a member on here :up:
Christopher
ClioSport Club Member
Z4M
Fair play for having a go at it. With the tools it's not the worst job ever.
Christopher
ClioSport Club Member
Z4M
Even after you've bought the tools/taken the time to do it, you'll still have a cheap car with everything sorted. All being well.
Clio 172
Will be watching this with interest, I've just bought the proper Renault tool kit from RPD to do mine too, but I'm not going to have time to start working on the car until at least next week.
Clio 172
Eh? What was their reasoning behind that?
Christopher
ClioSport Club Member
Z4M
Not surprising. Just get a set on eBay, it'll be cheaper anyway.
2003 Clio 172
Most certainly would fella if there were some genuine ones there but there are only aftermarket ones unfortunately.
Aiming at RPD but getting banged for NI delivery..........which sucks a bit.
Clio 172
If you look in the members section there's a code for free delivery for CS members. Don't know if it will apply to NI but worth a try.
It's parts man talk for:
"I can't be bothered to look that up in the computer" and/or "I'm a lazy tossbag"
2003 Clio 172
Hey bud, I would love to have just given him the "lazy" judgement.........but I had the below printed out and in my hand for him
MOT1054 – Setting rod
MOT1496 – Tool for setting camshaft
MOT1801 – Camshaft sprocket locking tool
0000150901 – Extra Longer Cog + Spacers + Nut
He even checked with his boss - must have been special, was wearing a RenaultSport coat
and he was the one that definitively said "not for the general public"
MOT1054 – Setting rod
MOT1496 – Tool for setting camshaft
MOT1801 – Camshaft sprocket locking tool
0000150901 – Extra Longer Cog + Spacers + Nut
He even checked with his boss - must have been special, was wearing a RenaultSport coat
and he was the one that definitively said "not for the general public"
