maybe the wet had somthing to do with it but does seem to spin alot of the power away, awesome none the less
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Just heard of a 172 - R5GTT turbo that made 670bhp yesterday is it on here?
R5GTT, 2L turbo
No that was quite a dry day, the officials would not allow a full-slick car to run with even the smallest amount of damp. The wheel spin is just my wastegate not being able to control the boost in early gears, so just too much power to the wheels. The new twin wastegates are much better, I need to get to the track set them up.
Gearbox uses an adaptor plate, standard audi bellhousing. It is an 02M 6 speed from the likes of the Audi TT, Leon cupra R, Golf GTI etc etc. It uses a mix of internals, some up-rated selector forks, RS4 driveshafts with renault outers, rose-joint cable shifter and hydro clutch. It is a very tight fit in the engine bay, but it should fit in a Clio just fine as well. I say just fine, what I really mean is it will fit if you are prepared to make all custom mounts, tilt the engine forward a little, make custom shafts, go hydro on the clutch and all the rest of it. Not complicated just a bit of graft !
Regards pictures, it's not really a pretty car but try these links:
http://www.rtoc.org/files/Technical Files/Scoff/02M conversion/scoff-pod-2011.jpg
http://www.rtoc.org/files/Technical Files/Scoff/02M conversion/scoff_natday_2010.jpg
http://www.rtoc.org/files/Technical Files/Scoff/02M conversion/done1.JPG
http://www.rtoc.org/files/Technical Files/Scoff/02M conversion/manifold-done-1.JPG
Gearbox installed:
http://www.rtoc.org/files/Technical Files/Scoff/02M conversion/7_02M_installed.JPG
Chris
Gearbox uses an adaptor plate, standard audi bellhousing. It is an 02M 6 speed from the likes of the Audi TT, Leon cupra R, Golf GTI etc etc. It uses a mix of internals, some up-rated selector forks, RS4 driveshafts with renault outers, rose-joint cable shifter and hydro clutch. It is a very tight fit in the engine bay, but it should fit in a Clio just fine as well. I say just fine, what I really mean is it will fit if you are prepared to make all custom mounts, tilt the engine forward a little, make custom shafts, go hydro on the clutch and all the rest of it. Not complicated just a bit of graft !
Regards pictures, it's not really a pretty car but try these links:
http://www.rtoc.org/files/Technical Files/Scoff/02M conversion/scoff-pod-2011.jpg
http://www.rtoc.org/files/Technical Files/Scoff/02M conversion/scoff_natday_2010.jpg
http://www.rtoc.org/files/Technical Files/Scoff/02M conversion/done1.JPG
http://www.rtoc.org/files/Technical Files/Scoff/02M conversion/manifold-done-1.JPG
Gearbox installed:
http://www.rtoc.org/files/Technical Files/Scoff/02M conversion/7_02M_installed.JPG
Chris
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R5GTT, 2L turbo
Hi Kev, I was meaning the save video too. It's shiney because of the glue on track. If it wasn't for that I'd still be spinning in 4th 
I can definately recommend the gearbox swap for those who are breaking JC5's. The added bonus is you can use a much bigger 240mm VW/Audi clutch, which there are many options out there for high power applications.
I can definately recommend the gearbox swap for those who are breaking JC5's. The added bonus is you can use a much bigger 240mm VW/Audi clutch, which there are many options out there for high power applications.
can i ask how you over came the issues with the gearbox fitment?
the ones i have seen so far looking at a seat leon cupra (6speed) box are:
flywheel needs to be spaced out a couple of inches to come close to the flywheel
the sensor that sits atop the JC5
the starter motor position
id love to fit the leon box i have to my turbo F7 engine going in my megane coupe as i cant see the collection of jc5's lasting me very long
the ones i have seen so far looking at a seat leon cupra (6speed) box are:
flywheel needs to be spaced out a couple of inches to come close to the flywheel
the sensor that sits atop the JC5
the starter motor position
id love to fit the leon box i have to my turbo F7 engine going in my megane coupe as i cant see the collection of jc5's lasting me very long
The Chubby Pirate
ClioSport Club Member
Golf R
Holy christ thats impressive!
Stupid question incoming, is she road legal?
Stupid question incoming, is she road legal?
R5GTT, 2L turbo
Hi Fred, cheers, no VVT on my engine. Any and all unneccesary things have been removed in favour of reliability. Yes, it's a machined exhaust pulley. I'd like to swap to a pair of lighter megane 225 pulleys when I find a pair and have the time to swap them.
Yes, it's road legal and often gets driven on the road, too and from some events etc. Its getting to the point where it's hard to give it the road manners it needs to be fun. Its a bit hard to drive at slow speeds because of the lairy cams, clutch, big injectors and so on.
Jaffman, not sure what you were asking about the flywheel, but in short it uses a VW flywheel (well, an american billet steel light-weight replacement designed for a VW) that has a renault crank bolt pattern inplace of the VW. That means you can use a standard VW starter motor bolted to the VW gearbox. Nothing needs spacing a couple of inches, just the flywheel needs bringing out a little bit to sit in the bellhousing just right.
Chris
Yes, it's road legal and often gets driven on the road, too and from some events etc. Its getting to the point where it's hard to give it the road manners it needs to be fun. Its a bit hard to drive at slow speeds because of the lairy cams, clutch, big injectors and so on.
Jaffman, not sure what you were asking about the flywheel, but in short it uses a VW flywheel (well, an american billet steel light-weight replacement designed for a VW) that has a renault crank bolt pattern inplace of the VW. That means you can use a standard VW starter motor bolted to the VW gearbox. Nothing needs spacing a couple of inches, just the flywheel needs bringing out a little bit to sit in the bellhousing just right.
Chris
well when i compared the VW and the renault boxes next to each other the input shaft of the VW box was nowhere near as "far out" as the renault one. i.e when you looked at them in the bellhousing the renault one was long and the VW one was short.
the spacing i was on about is the "flywheel needs bringing out a little bit" that you mentioned. i was a bit concerned at spacing out the flywheel and adding potentially more stress on the end of the crank. clearly it works fine for you tho so im obviously not looking at it the right way ha! how did you space it out?
also what did you do about the crank sensor?
the spacing i was on about is the "flywheel needs bringing out a little bit" that you mentioned. i was a bit concerned at spacing out the flywheel and adding potentially more stress on the end of the crank. clearly it works fine for you tho so im obviously not looking at it the right way ha! how did you space it out?
also what did you do about the crank sensor?
R5GTT, 2L turbo
Jaffman, ah well that is because the VW flywheels have a large minus offset compared with the renault flywheel, so that in itself makes up for most of the difference you've noted. The actually crank spacer is more to adapt the hub size to keep it all concentric. It's not that thick. You would need to mock it up as did I, with whichever thickness bellhousing adaptor plate you decide on and then decide on your hub adaptor width.
Crank sensor might be more of a problem for guys running OE management. I use a trigger wheel on the crank pulley. OE will be looking for a 60-2 pattern (OK, ish) but there are some trigger wheels available in that pattern too. The physical timing of that wheel will be critical of course. Alternatively, some of the VW flywheels have quite a lot of space around there outer edge. Enough to drill a trigger pattern in to. Then you could re-mount your crank sensor to follow that instead.
Chris
Crank sensor might be more of a problem for guys running OE management. I use a trigger wheel on the crank pulley. OE will be looking for a 60-2 pattern (OK, ish) but there are some trigger wheels available in that pattern too. The physical timing of that wheel will be critical of course. Alternatively, some of the VW flywheels have quite a lot of space around there outer edge. Enough to drill a trigger pattern in to. Then you could re-mount your crank sensor to follow that instead.
Chris
brilliant! thanks for the information mate.
ill be running standalone anyway so i supose i could opt for the same solution as you and put a trigger wheel on the crank pulley.
you mentioned earlier about tilting the engine forward a little. was this due to space issues in the 5 or something else?
R5GTT, 2L turbo
I don't know how that gearbox will land in anything other than an R5, but I suspect you'll have the same issues I did. Basically, the gearbox is big, so big that it wants to sit on the steering rack and subframe if the engine isn't tilted forward. I managed to keep the front mounting points about the same, I just had to lift the rear of the engine a bit until the gearbox cleared. I use solid mounts so I can get away with tight clearances. Rubbers will need more thinking about. You may have to "adjust" bits of the subframe to get enough clearance.
Let me know if I can help with anything standalone related. Standalone installation, part supply and mapping is what I do
Chris
Let me know if I can help with anything standalone related. Standalone installation, part supply and mapping is what I do
Chris
well the megane bay is considerably bigger than the 5 so i may be lucky and not have any clearance issues. supose theres only 1 way i will find out lol. even if it does need tilting slightly i cant see it being much of a problem as i have the 2 hanging mounts and the "dogbone" mount at the back.
thanks for the info again, its greatly appreciated i have an OMEX 600 atm which im going to be using but im a while off wiring it up yet. i can see me pestering you some more in future tho lol.
cheers
thanks for the info again, its greatly appreciated
i have an OMEX 600 atm which im going to be using but im a while off wiring it up yet. i can see me pestering you some more in future tho lol.cheers
Clio 172 Turbo
Hello from Romania!
Congratulations Scoff!
I'm sure it's just a matter of time until you get to under 10s.
I'm using this occasion to thank you for all the help and support in my project in adapting the VAG gearbox on my 172 Clio turbo!
Hope to hear from you soon!
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Clio 172 Turbo
Yes, everything is ready. No problems! The car works just fine For now Im working on the soft.
Here's a link with the new gearbox ( I missed the second gear):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rHsJaILlkWM
For now Im working on the soft.Here's a link with the new gearbox (
I missed the second gear):http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rHsJaILlkWM
Darren S
ClioSport Club Member
A great thread! Always a treat to read about a modded car, crafted by someone who know what they are doing!
I must admit, when I saw the title to this thread, I instantly thought "WTF - that has to be BS!"
D.
I must admit, when I saw the title to this thread, I instantly thought "WTF - that has to be BS!"
D.
Id love to hear more about this gearbox conversion and the costs involved, as it seems this might be the best allthough very expensive option to everyone who goes through boxes and having to source then replace it. Might be better to take the hit of £xxxx to go for the vag box conversion with the custom shafts and everything else it needs to work.
Eventually I'l be goign down the forced induction route, more so supercharging my car as it seems the best for my driving application, my only worries are the reliability of the oem renault box when running big power. So are there any companies out there that could consider offering this as a one off conversion to such members.
Thanks
Pete
Eventually I'l be goign down the forced induction route, more so supercharging my car as it seems the best for my driving application, my only worries are the reliability of the oem renault box when running big power. So are there any companies out there that could consider offering this as a one off conversion to such members.
Thanks
Pete
R5GTT, 2L turbo
I think more people should look at fitting the ND0 instead of the VW gearbox. I know SteveH is on with it for his turbocharged application. It's sometimes nice to keep it all the same make but more than that you wont have to worry about a custom flywheel. Perhaps they won't be as strong as the 3-shaft 02M VAG but hopefully they'll be more than up to dealing with 300-400hp motors.
Producing a kit for the VW swap would not be at all cheap.
Chris
Producing a kit for the VW swap would not be at all cheap.
Chris
Clio 172 Turbo
@TUTUUR
The turbocharger (GT2871R) is quite small, I have some losses on the VAG gearbox (but I can count on it) and now Im using bigger injectors, 410 engine HP.
Last saturday I was on a drag race, competing on a VHT, best time 12.04s/402.2m, but bad R888 tyres contributed to a lower score.
Everything else worked fine: gearbox and driveshafts-by Scoff's receipe.
Here's a video, if you're interested, though the quality is not that good (plus I still need to get more used to race start )
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WH-lJVIGCLs (in this video, wanting to get a higher score, I missed the 5th gear)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_LuNhvrlcI0
P.S. Sorry about my bad english in order of technical terms
The turbocharger (GT2871R) is quite small, I have some losses on the VAG gearbox (but I can count on it) and now Im using bigger injectors, 410 engine HP.
Last saturday I was on a drag race, competing on a VHT, best time 12.04s/402.2m, but bad R888 tyres contributed to a lower score.
Everything else worked fine: gearbox and driveshafts-by Scoff's receipe
.Here's a video, if you're interested, though the quality is not that good (plus I still need to get more used to race start
)http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WH-lJVIGCLs (in this video, wanting to get a higher score, I missed the 5th gear)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_LuNhvrlcI0
P.S. Sorry about my bad english in order of technical terms
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Thanks for the info Scoff. Would it not be better/cheaper to opt to try and plumb in and run the megane 225 bottom end and gearbox with custom shafts and 172 head along with all other necessary parts etc. Also opting to supercharge the engine, is that possible?
Ideally im after a strong engine and gearbox that can cope with the torque and hp and not have to worry too much about it. Im just wondering what the possible options/variations there are and whats possible to do without going into serious money.
A
ashy_gtt
Its like the Eurovision Song Contest in here :rasp:
maynard
ClioSport Club Member
ph2 172 track car
Been looking for that, Sparky was telling me about that yesterday!
nicked off RTOC
http://i428.photobucket.com/albums/qq4/bluntyn40/PFC featured WGT dyno day/img027.jpg
I think he'd previously maxed out his injectors, so this is just making the most of what he already had with bigger injectors, no doubt Chis will confirm.
http://i428.photobucket.com/albums/qq4/bluntyn40/PFC featured WGT dyno day/img027.jpg
I think he'd previously maxed out his injectors, so this is just making the most of what he already had with bigger injectors, no doubt Chis will confirm.
R5GTT, 2L turbo
Hi Andy, would you believe that it's using 68% of the new injectors, which sounds like an unbelievable number I know. It doesn't really compute, they claim they are 2200cc, I can only conclude the injectors don't respond like I'm expecting them to respond. Logs show fuel pressure is good (3 bar). It could be an injector current thing. Thats about 2.5bar of boost. Peak of about 2.7 bar, which needs calming a bit!, dropping to 2.4 by the redline. Turbo is maxxed out, WG's are shut after 7300rpm. It needs an upgrade, but I havn't got upgrade money. I think also the transmission loss at the dyno was a bit high that day so you can probably knock a few % off that number. Still I'm happy with that !
I've got some custom firmware tweeks to try in the ECU to get the shift light working via rear wheel speed instead of RPM. It should stop me from short shifting 1-2 all the time and dropping out of spool. Flat shift also working well now, which helps a little bit too.
Chris
I've got some custom firmware tweeks to try in the ECU to get the shift light working via rear wheel speed instead of RPM. It should stop me from short shifting 1-2 all the time and dropping out of spool. Flat shift also working well now, which helps a little bit too.
Chris
R5GTT, 2L turbo
Not too much, but I did make some changes that had an interesting effect. Also before I was limited by the small injectors.
I think I'd be investigating why they're at 68%, knock up a flow tester to see what they actually flow at 68%, plus scope the injector voltage and ECU voltage. I'd also have a look at how ECU voltage susceptable the injectors are. I think it's white spirt that you want to be testing the injectors with - check that though.
Is your fuel rail fat enough? average pressure may well be 3bar, but maybe it drops when the injectors open - I was going to say that it won't be much different to your old injectors, but since they were pretty much open all the time there would have been less pulsing.
Is your fuel rail fat enough? average pressure may well be 3bar, but maybe it drops when the injectors open - I was going to say that it won't be much different to your old injectors, but since they were pretty much open all the time there would have been less pulsing.
R5GTT, 2L turbo
Quite possibly could be any or several of those things but I'll worry more when I'm at 80% The rail is 17mm bore and is fed from either end by an 044. Return is in the center. Pressure is measured at the regulator body, so the return not the feed. I think it must be a current thing. I can set peak and hold and they'll flow more for the same ms, but not loads more. I havn't done any propper measuring. They shouldn't need peak and hold though. For now I'll leave them alone
The rail is 17mm bore and is fed from either end by an 044. Return is in the center. Pressure is measured at the regulator body, so the return not the feed. I think it must be a current thing. I can set peak and hold and they'll flow more for the same ms, but not loads more. I havn't done any propper measuring. They shouldn't need peak and hold though. For now I'll leave them alone Your fuel system sounds more than up to it, I'd just be concerned that something might be voltage or temperature dependant and the fuelling drifts with a change in one or the other. How does the adaptronic tune for injector delay time and voltage correction? Have you seen any flow test results for your injectors at different duty cycles/voltages?
R5GTT, 2L turbo
It's 100% stable so I'm not too worried. There are safety precautions, the ECU has a feed from the wideband controller. Voltage to the ECU is fine and I've used the supplied dead time chart to configure that. The 68% might actually incorporate dead time, I hadn't thought of that until just now. I wrote the adaptronic drivers for the logging software and I used (possibly the applied) injector ms to calculate duty. I'll check with adaptronic to see if that number is the applied ms or the ms taken from the fuel table.
Specky was using 55% of his ID2000 last time I spoke to him, which is also a big number, so maybe the injectors also don't flow quite as much as we might think. I don't care much though, I won't be running out of duty any time soon
Specky was using 55% of his ID2000 last time I spoke to him, which is also a big number, so maybe the injectors also don't flow quite as much as we might think. I don't care much though, I won't be running out of duty any time soon
A
ashy_gtt
Less of the technical chat, it won't go down too well in here :nono:
