Injectors & Fuel pump

[tom172cup]

Going to fit my new engine in a couple of weeks. And i need to uprate my injectors to a size that i dont know yet think about 630cc. so my problems are
How do i find out the correct size and where to buy from. also will the standard fuel pump be up to the job.
any ideas would be appreciated

 

[RSTuning]

How much power are you wanting?

630's are roughly enough for 400hp

 

[tom172cup]

Im aiming at around 320 ish more would be a bonus. It may also be making a trip up to you guys at some point for mapping etc

 

[RSTuning]

Use the deka 630cc and you'll have plenty enough fuel then

 

[tom172cup]

ok cheers for that do you know where to get one from and a rough price.

 

[RSTuning]

I have them in stock (injectors). I can do you a set for £220+VAT

 

[tom172cup]

Ah ok cool i will sort that out at some point then. so the fuel pump will be fine then.

 

[Fred@BTM]

i would say you might want a better pump, but paul's the man for that, stock pump is a walbro anyway from memory

 

[tom172cup]

Thats what i was thinking but dont really know much about that side of things.

 

[Fred@BTM]

easy peasy!

 

[tom172cup]

Any advice on what one to get Fred.

 

[scotty2hotty81]

What about the walbro 225 there on eBay? Il be needing to buy uprated injectors/pump soon to.

 

[tom172cup]

ive had a look on the web and you can get the injectors for about 40 each plus delivery.
Scott have you got a link for the pump

 

[Fred@BTM]

watch out for cheap injector/ones from ebay, alot of dodgy ones out there from the far east (basically copies of the real thing)

 

[tom172cup]

watch out for cheap injector/ones from ebay, alot of dodgy ones out there from the far east (basically copies of the real thing)

These were from a company in the states that sold everthing performance related. they were the derka 630cc ones

 

[Fred@BTM]

and where did they get them? loads of cheap copies flying about so where ever you get them make sure you get a warranty!

 

[tom172cup]

Fair point looks like i will have to buy the ones from RSTuning then. but
http://www.intengineering.com/Siemens-Deka-630cc-Injector-p3471089.html

 

[Gray]

Fair point looks like i will have to buy the ones from RSTuning then. but
http://www.intengineering.com/Siemens-Deka-630cc-Injector-p3471089.html

They are the longer size injectors from intengineering.. You would have to modify your fuel rail to fit them!

You need the stubby style (which Paul sells);

I run these on my r26 and they are plug and play, no messing!

 

[tom172cup]

Fair enough didnt know there were two types. off to find pauls number now lol

 

[scotty2hotty81]

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/WALBRO-25...CarParts_SM&hash=item230c3484e4#ht_4499wt_992.

There you go, pretty sure stevieh runs this in his trophy not 100% though.

 

[Tutuur]

are the siemens deka 630cc's low impendance? iirc thats what the original ecu needs...

 

[tom172cup]

are the siemens deka 630cc's low impendance? iirc thats what the original ecu needs...

I don't know about that but I have two different ecu's stock and a gen 90

 

[ayk2008]

How much power are you wanting? 630's are roughly enough for 400hp

K-Tec use Weber Pico 430cc (yellow) by Magnetty Marelly in their turbo conversion kit (up to 350 bhp as they write). However I think that for ITB conversion the Pico IWP043 are OK as soon as hey are 330cc and have 4-holes as original. Really you can get up to 430cc from them with fuel pressure regulator, as soon as they really are:

At 3 bar 329 cc
At 4 bar 377 cc
At 5 bar 421 cc

- so they have a wide range for tuning!​

P.S. Any ideas about how much the original 172's are? I read that they are 250cc, but I want to verify that for sure!!!

 

[ayk2008]

Ooops ... Check again the K-Tec, but can not edit anymore... So:

Weber Pico IWP069 by Magnetty Marelly (Yellow) are 490cc

Is that is for more then 350bhp - it seems that original 172's are 250cc, 197/200's are like 280cc and you you can use 330 cc for up to 240bhp projects at standard 3 bar fuel pressure

 

[Dan519]

K-Tec use Weber Pico 430cc (yellow) by Magnetty Marelly in their turbo conversion kit (up to 350 bhp as they write). However I think that for ITB conversion the Pico IWP043 are OK as soon as hey are 330cc and have 4-holes as original. Really you can get up to 430cc from them with fuel pressure regulator, as soon as they really are:

At 3 bar 329 cc
At 4 bar 377 cc
At 5 bar 421 cc

- so they have a wide range for tuning!​

P.S. Any ideas about how much the original 172's are? I read that they are 250cc, but I want to verify that for sure!!!

they stopped using those long ago and moved over to using megane 225 injectors for most things as they are so good and 440cc so good for around 330bhp on anything with a fuel return (less capacity on regulator in tank systems)

 

[Dan519]

Ooops ... Check again the K-Tec, but can not edit anymore... So:

Weber Pico IWP069 by Magnetty Marelly (Yellow) are 490cc

Is that is for more then 350bhp - it seems that original 172's are 250cc, 197/200's are like 280cc and you you can use 330 cc for up to 240bhp projects at standard 3 bar fuel pressure

the Pico yellows are a horrible spray pattern. they're really designed as a stand off injector, IIRC they're original equipment on some ducati's? good for a precise jet of fuel from externally, but very poor atomisation. They're like turning on a tap.

 

[ayk2008]

they stopped using those long ago and moved over to using megane 225 injectors for most things as they are so good and 440cc so good for around 330bhp on anything with a fuel return (less capacity on regulator in tank systems)

My friend bought K-Tec turbo kit 3 years ago and there was exactly Pico IWP 069 which are 490ccCheck K-Tec website and it seems that they still sell the same Pico as a part for turbo convertion (yellow ring):
http://www.k-tecracing.com/show_product.asp?id=2831&appid=2

Do you mean that they use Megane's injectors for their own projects but still sell Pico to the customers?

the Pico yellows are a horrible spray pattern. they're really designed as a stand off injector, IIRC they're original equipment on some ducati's? good for a precise jet of fuel from externally, but very poor atomisation. They're like turning on a tap.

I got the original spares from the garage and got that they are marked as IWP 042 - this is Pico green (250cc). Check the price at Magnetty Marelly, and it is £20 - i.e. 2-3 times lower then from Renault!!!

Any advice about injectors for 240-250 bhp project? Are the IWP 043 (330 cc) good? It has 4 hoses, but with wide Single pattern while IWP 042 has 4 hoses with Split patttern, which is obviously better!

 

[Fred@BTM]

043's will be fine for you

 

[ayk2008]

043's will be fine for you

What about Clio 197/200 injectors (8200490287)? Are they the same size as 172's?

If 172's injectors can work at up to 200-210 bhp tuned engines, then the 197's injectors should be OK for 230-240 bhp... I order one as a sample (40.00GBP is not too much), but the shipping time is up to 1 month... May be I need to order all 4 just now .... or cancel my order for 1 asap =)

And one more question: how mch is the standard fuel pressure at 172 ph2? Is it possible to increase it without install return from ph1?

 

[Dan519]

What about Clio 197/200 injectors (8200490287)? Are they the same size as 172's?

If 172's injectors can work at up to 200-210 bhp tuned engines, then the 197's injectors should be OK for 230-240 bhp... I order one as a sample (40.00GBP is not too much), but the shipping time is up to 1 month... May be I need to order all 4 just now .... or cancel my order for 1 asap =)

And one more question: how mch is the standard fuel pressure at 172 ph2? Is it possible to increase it without install return from ph1?

197/200 injectors are a strange type with a long tip. If you're buying new, get megane injectors

 

[Gray]

buy a set of megane RS injectors, they will suit your requirements.

 

[ayk2008]

buy a set of megane RS injectors, they will suit your requirements.

Are they 430cc? Isn't it too much?

Anyway - thank you for idea. I have Megane 225 too and it is stage 1 now. So I can buy new injectors for my Megane to make stage 2-3, and use the old original Megane's injectors for my Clio!!!!

 

[Dan519]

they're 440cc, but have a fantastic spray pattern and are very controllable at low duty. I used them on a ~200hp ITB'd F7R recently and they performed faultlessly and gave great accuracy

 

[Jaff.]

they're 440cc, but have a fantastic spray pattern and are very controllable at low duty. I used them on a ~200hp ITB'd F7R recently and they performed faultlessly and gave great accuracy

any good for a turbocharged F7R?

 

[Dan519]

no, too short. you need bosch green giants (ECU dependent)