how often do you "heel and toe"?

[Goodj]

anyone out there double-declutch?

 

[mishmish]

anyone out there double-declutch?

on a 172?! LOL
its hard enough to press the clutch once, so you want it to be done twice?

 

[Mavez]

Only when i'm stationary at the traffic lights and Vin Diesel pulls up next to me.

 

[Craigus]

Granny shifting . . .

 

[aucky]

Everytime pretty much.
Or I at least match the revs when down changing if I don;t need to brake..

 

[LIL B]

anyone out there double-declutch?

I do on my old jap wagon.

 

[Adam.]

anyone out there double-declutch?

I'm so JDM I double declutch my pedal bin.

 

[MarkCup]

I rev match every single gear change I do in every car I drive on the road, not all are done using heel/toe but they're all matched.

If you can do it, why wouldn't you? Your clutch and drivetrain will thank you for it in the long run.

As for when on track, I can't understand why more people don't make the effort to learn/do it. Nothing worse than hearing a clutch doing a sizeable portion of the braking LOL

 

[Kane.]

I now understand
http://www.edmunds.com/how-to/heel-and-toe-downshift.html

 

[Craigus]

I rev match every single gear change I do in every car I drive on the road, not all are done using heel/toe but they're all matched.

If you can do it, why wouldn't you? Your clutch and drivetrain will thank you for it in the long run.

As for when on track, I can't understand why more people don't make the effort to learn/do it. Nothing worse than hearing a clutch doing a sizeable portion of the braking LOL

I would like to learn it, but don't spend enough time on a track to do it.

 

[Kane.]

So when you have correct amount of revs you dont let go of gas even when letting clutch out ?

 

[Goodj]

I would like to learn it, but don't spend enough time on a track to do it.

I'd rather bolt in a push/pull sequential box with throttle cut-out.

it'd cost me more in track-time to get H&T right I bet!

 

[Craigus]

So when you have correct amount of revs you dont let go of gas even when letting clutch out ?

No, you let the gas off, otherwise you would accelerate.

 

[Kane.]

 

[MarkCup]

I would like to learn it, but don't spend enough time on a track to do it.

You can learn on the road. Forget heel and toe, just practice rev matching first.

Once you're comfortable with the concept, you can move on to practicing H/T so you can do it while you're on the brakes as well.

Contrary to popular belief, you don't need to be braking or driving hard to do it.

 

[Craigus]

I rev match all the time, and I can heel & toe, just not to a standard where I would be comfortable using it on a track where I am driving very near to my limits, where one slip could put me in the barrier.

 

[MarkCup]

I rev match all the time, and I can heel & toe, just not to a standard where I would be comfortable using it on a track where I am driving very near to my limits, where one slip could put me in the barrier.

Aye, there is that to consider. Took me a looooooooooong time to get comfortable using my left-foot to brake for fast corners where no down change is required, was always afraid I'd either lock up, not apply enough pressure and get enough speed off or snap off of them instead of easing off screwing up the balance blah blah blah.

Just keep at it. Without practice you'll never be comfortable.

 

[clioalesi]

I either heel and toe or rev match all the time....plus is sounds great with a nice exhaust.

 

[Ian172southend]

It basically does the job of the synchros in the gearbox. So why do it? Because its a renault and they are made of chocolate! Also stops sudden weight transfer when cornering.

 

[furio-james]

Ill only do it when im giving it some stick otherwise when I go down a gear at low revs using heel toeing I find it doesnt help and makes it more jerky

 

[MarkCup]

It basically does the job of the synchros in the gearbox. So why do it? Because its a renault and they are made of chocolate! Also stops sudden weight transfer when cornering.

It doesn't. That's double de-clutch shifting you're thinking of.

Heel and toe/rev matching does nothing to help, assist, or replace the job of the syncromesh. All it does is stop unintended weight transfer and gives the clutch an easier time.

 

[poopipe]

i just do it automatically now, there's no disadvantage to it and plenty of advantages in terms of safety and staying in control of the car.

 

[bmh.01]

All the time, once I learnt to do it I can't get out of the habit of doing it. Plus its smoother and easier on the clutch so can't be a bad thing.

 

[T3gav]

LOL! Using your left foot to brake in traffic isn't LFB.

I liked the pedals in the Panda though, perfect spacing.

Yes it is, you can either do it mid corner if you think you're the drift king (insert trendy word like yo' or whatever kids use these days) or simply to scrub off speed when not changing down as it's quicker to get on the power than moving your right foot, on the road makes for good practice unless you meant actual traffic in which case it's impossible lol.

 

[Ollie82.]

I tend to only heel and toe when driving hard. I don't see the point during normal sensible driving but I ALWAYS rev match.

 

[ForceIndia]

Never. Can't do it, think I need custom pedals. Or custom feet.

 

[jack_kemp]

I do it all the time. Just for smoothness of gear change.

 

[jack_kemp]

Never. Can't do it, think I need custom pedals. Or custom feet.

You need flexible shoes (I wear my race boots to drive in) because Renault like to position the throttle pedal 20ft further back than the brake.

 

[gez 172]

i give the car a blip on the throttle while down shifting, dont heel and toe though. The padals feel weird in the clio imo. I used to be able to do it in my old corsa.

 

[Ian_s]

Never. Can't do it, think I need custom pedals. Or custom feet.

I made an extended throttle pedal, its easy to adjust the height too with a couple of washers between the bulkhead and pedal unit.

 

[The Chubby Pirate]

Never.

I'd probably only attempt it on track (never done a track day)

It was far easier to do on the road in the VTS/GTI as you could stand on the 3 pedals with one foot

 

[treemanx]

I do it and I didn't even know it was called this

 

[Bassplayer]

OK boys and girls. Here is how it is done. The expression heel and toes comes from the 20's and 30's on racing barges like Bentleys, 'cos the throttle was in between the clutch and brake, eeek!

Ok, you are ready for a downshift under braking. While braking with you right foot, swing your foot a bit anti clockwise, as you press the clutch you shift into neutral, release the clutch, and still braking give the throttle a blip with the right part of your foot. As the revs start to drop you press the clutch and shift to the gear you want. Swivel foot, let the clutch and brake go and floor the throttle.
Take this from an old git whose first car had no synchro, by design....

Double de clutching is the same without the braking bit. I mastered it at 17. It's very easy.

 

[The Chubby Pirate]

Im almost certain we are going to see the cost of insurance hit the f**king roof with folk trying that

 

[recaro182]

There is no need for the extra release of the clutch half way though on modern synchro cars.

 

[ForceIndia]

It was a joke ladies. Everytime the topic comes up someone comes along saying they can't do it, and it's the pedals fault, which is nonsense. I heel and toe whenever it's needed.

 

[Nick172Cup]

Im almost certain we are going to see the cost of insurance hit the f**king roof with folk trying that

Lol, the explanation for crashing!

Insurance/police - "So what happened?"

Driver - "Well I was leaving it late to brake because i'm a hero whilst learning to 'heel and toe', and I got all muddled up and smashed head on into tree/car/house/river/lake.

Insurance/police - "Idiot"

 

[Kam.]

You need flexible shoes (I wear my race boots to drive in) because Renault like to position the throttle pedal 20ft further back than the brake.

I have been breaking in my nice new OMP race boots before my race season starts end of Feb and I will concur that using the right footwear makes it much easier. I have better foot support, making it easier and more comfortable to place the foot where needed. The soles are thin enough to allow far more feel through the pedals, finding the perfect clutch biting point is suddenly easier with better tactile response. I was pleasantly surprised. You want the accelerator lower than the brake pedal so as you press with your foot, you do not have to hold your foot like you are wearing high heels to reach the throttle. Your foot coming down to the accelerator makes it more comfortable and natural
I heel and toe all the time and use left foot braking to control the car when not needing to change gear or come to a complete halt. I find it hard to adapt to a new car quickly as you have to adapt the foot position to suit the pedals and different amounts of servo assistance on the brakes can throw me off, but I am trying to get to the stage where even in stressed scenarios there is no conscious reaction, but an automated dance over the pedals. Its not something that most people need to learn or should feel envious if someone else can do it. In fact the whole topic bores 99% of the human race lol

Kev

 

[Jcs]

f**k heel and toe





i fist

 

[MarkCup]

OK boys and girls. Here is how it is done. The expression heel and toes comes from the 20's and 30's on racing barges like Bentleys, 'cos the throttle was in between the clutch and brake, eeek!

Ok, you are ready for a downshift under braking. While braking with you right foot, swing your foot a bit anti clockwise, as you press the clutch you shift into neutral, release the clutch, and still braking give the throttle a blip with the right part of your foot. As the revs start to drop you press the clutch and shift to the gear you want. Swivel foot, let the clutch and brake go and floor the throttle.
Take this from an old git whose first car had no synchro, by design....

Double de clutching is the same without the braking bit. I mastered it at 17. It's very easy.

What you described in your main paragraph IS double de-clutching...you're pressing the clutch twice with every shift. Being on or off the brakes doesn't change that fact.

Heel/toe shifting is all of that, but without the pause in neutral to match the input/output shaft speeds in the gearbox.

Old videos here, but these are my attempts from a while back;

Basic heel toe changes...



Double de-clutch changes...