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Guess what car............for all the haters
- Thread starter Steve
- Start date
ForceIndia
ClioSport Club Member
Gentlemans spec 200
Don't think anyone's denying the 200 should be a good car, but to treat this video as indicative of relative performance would be silly.
Autocar is a business, main job being to sell magazines and advert space. These teaser vids are designed to help those aims, had the FRS pulled away, would it generate as much discussion? No, so to think there's an element of 'staging' isn't unreasonable. Much like Top Gear features, they aren't really a reliable measure of relative performance.
Some seem to be suggesting that the 200 is genuinely FRS pace. Which would make it close to R26R pace, which is a car of similar mass, more power, lots more torque, LSD, and R888's. That's not going to happen!!
Autocar is a business, main job being to sell magazines and advert space. These teaser vids are designed to help those aims, had the FRS pulled away, would it generate as much discussion? No, so to think there's an element of 'staging' isn't unreasonable. Much like Top Gear features, they aren't really a reliable measure of relative performance.
Some seem to be suggesting that the 200 is genuinely FRS pace. Which would make it close to R26R pace, which is a car of similar mass, more power, lots more torque, LSD, and R888's. That's not going to happen!!
ForceIndia
ClioSport Club Member
Gentlemans spec 200
Millbrook.
I say I again...and to clarify the above point, I have driven a trophy extensively over 2,000 milese.
Cracking car, but when Evo did the feature on the M6 v the trophy everyone acknowledge its strengths. But did we believe it would pull up a hill against an M6.... I think not.
This has absolutely zero to do with the fact i own an ST. I am not going into the boring detail as to why I have an ST over an R26/27.
But really there so much naivety in here it is embarrassing.
hallelujah:approve:
RX8 231 + New Focus CC3
owned trophy for bout 18mths. work for ford and driven rs round donnington all day. the clio in my opinion is more "fun" so to speak because you feel more involved but the be all and end all is that the rs is alot quicker, the mid range power murders the usual suspect NA cars. Also the RS performes in corners far better than the vid surgests, but if your yanking on the wheel in every corner then its gonna look quick but drive very slow.
love clio's. Focus RS is better
love clio's. Focus RS is better
182 Trophy
Oh god what is it with people saying 'focus has more power blah blah, its nearly 400kg heavier than the clio, it exits the corners a lot quicker so why shouldnt it keep up on the 200m straights?, i think people are slowly realising fords all conquering supposed mighty hatch isnt all its cracked up to be. Weight is where it fails and that big lazy 5cylinder lump pushing the front end down doesnt help the fact it understeers a lot. And for the doubters, anyone seen the test with the r26r v focus rs round silverstone?, the r26r beets it by 3 seconds, same driver, same day etc. and silverstones a fast track which should have suited the focus.
Ford cant make hot hatchbacks, fact.... we all know how bad the fiesta st's are and the focus is the same.
a lot of people slating on here probabuly cant drive half as well as the autocar testers in this vid. its easy to sit here and slate 'oh staged', why the fcuk would they stage it after all the media hype about the rustbucket 'cough' ford.
power to weight and a good handeling car will trounce masses of power everyday, otherwise the veyron would be the quickest round the tg track
Ford cant make hot hatchbacks, fact.... we all know how bad the fiesta st's are and the focus is the same.
a lot of people slating on here probabuly cant drive half as well as the autocar testers in this vid. its easy to sit here and slate 'oh staged', why the fcuk would they stage it after all the media hype about the rustbucket 'cough' ford.
power to weight and a good handeling car will trounce masses of power everyday, otherwise the veyron would be the quickest round the tg track
TT 225
Oh god what is it with people saying 'focus has more power blah blah, its nearly 400kg heavier than the clio, it exits the corners a lot quicker so why shouldnt it keep up on the 200m straights?, i think people are slowly realising fords all conquering supposed mighty hatch isnt all its cracked up to be. Weight is where it fails and that big lazy 5cylinder lump pushing the front end down doesnt help the fact it understeers a lot. And for the doubters, anyone seen the test with the r26r v focus rs round silverstone?, the r26r beets it by 3 seconds, same driver, same day etc. and silverstones a fast track which should have suited the focus.
Ford cant make hot hatchbacks, fact.... we all know how bad the fiesta st's are and the focus is the same.
a lot of people slating on here probabuly cant drive half as well as the autocar testers in this vid. its easy to sit here and slate 'oh staged', why the fcuk would they stage it after all the media hype about the rustbucket 'cough' ford.
power to weight and a good handeling car will trounce masses of power everyday, otherwise the veyron would be the quickest round the tg track
Good analysis.
Ignore Ad hes just a little upset
Clio MK 4
Had there been longer straights the rs would destroy it. But its not all about that
PH1 172 Sport
Topgear was comparing the RS to a Ford GT a few months ago because its easier to drive fast along a mountain road. This is exactly the same sort of test. A car in a lower segment ie the clio has been comparred against a more powerful car because it can out handle it in certain situations. I don't see why it would be a staged test.
There is no denying that the RS would be quicker in a straight line but the way it squirms coming out of some of those corners where the driver is obviously trying to get the power down doesn't look fun to me. The cars are in different classes but I dont see whats wrong with them being comparred and why people get so tetchy about it!
There is no denying that the RS would be quicker in a straight line but the way it squirms coming out of some of those corners where the driver is obviously trying to get the power down doesn't look fun to me. The cars are in different classes but I dont see whats wrong with them being comparred and why people get so tetchy about it!
RX8 231 + New Focus CC3
people are talking bout the rs being lazy, heavy and not an agile car...
Hands up who's driven the rs??
The two cars in question are different classes and is not a true comparison. And the bang for bucks on four wheels coment was answered by caterham moons ago
Hands up who's driven the rs??
The two cars in question are different classes and is not a true comparison. And the bang for bucks on four wheels coment was answered by caterham moons ago
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ForceIndia
ClioSport Club Member
Gentlemans spec 200
Lol at the children drawing conclusions from a very short video. I look forward to you all buying 200's and then wiping the floor with all and sundry. I eagerly await the road driving stories "i beat a 430scud, and he was def trying innit".
Tangoed Works
I dont think many are drawing wild conclusions from that video. There is no denying they are different interpretations of the hot hatch. On a bigger track with longer straights there is no denying the clio will be left.
Where its most fun, ie tight, twisty roads, the clio will probably keep most things honest. One thing is clear, the clio is as renault sports typically are, razor sharp when it comes to cornering.
Where its most fun, ie tight, twisty roads, the clio will probably keep most things honest. One thing is clear, the clio is as renault sports typically are, razor sharp when it comes to cornering.
PH1 172 Sport
Are you seriously suggesting a ClioSport couldn't beat any of the Italian supercars........
TTRS & V50
Quality video. Can feel the speed.
yawn yawn......you insult my intelligence and expierence.
I have owned and spent more time driving clios than you likley ever will!! I know just how capable Renautsport(!!) are, I have embarassed porsches in a clio....
I will reserve judgement on the 200 until i have driven one, but unlike most including yourself i have drive an RS.
Your've drove clios longer than me,my hero,want a f**king medal or something.
I know the RS would win on aproper track,I just think it is great how the little clio can keep on its heels in the twisties of such a good car.
My 197 is my first renault so you probably have been in a clio longer than me,had it 2 years now and still ain't bored of it.All my previous cars have been fords,including a mk 1 focus RS which I came out of for me clio.So don't make it seem like I don't know me cars mate,I'm 30 years old not a teen,I've had me fair share of different motors over the years.I'm also intending on purchacing an RS myself next year after my house move so its not like I'm slating it.
So what dose the blinkers comment mean then?????????
Clio 172 RS2
Please study.:
http://forums.focaljet.com/suspension/585922-future-fwd-performance-revo-knuckle.html
Or download that PDF presentation file.
according to you "like most ford owners" I need understand that renault know how to make a car handle????Your words not mine.
13 or 30 i dont really care.... Why would you want to purchase an RS when its the same speed as an 200 around the track? Or is the video deceptive?
Need to refer to your original post so you dont make an RS of yourself
I ain't making an RS of myself mate,end of the day I'm right,focus owners getting on the deffencive over this vid.Maybe not you but many ford owners I know slate renault and their abilties,yet they havn't even driven one,the stick I got when I got mine was unreal.It was the same with a recent vid of the R26R beating the RS round silverstone,they all come out with excuses about the result.
Sorry didn't relise you had so much experience in a clio.But surely you of all people should realise that this is not a staged video and what the clio is capable off, so why make such negative comments too the clio???
I very nearly bought a focus ST as my RS replacement,but didn't make the same mistake as you,I didnt fancy owning a car that every man and his dog in essex has got.
So can you please stop trying too mug me off mate.
Sorry didn't relise you had so much experience in a clio.But surely you of all people should realise that this is not a staged video and what the clio is capable off, so why make such negative comments too the clio???
I very nearly bought a focus ST as my RS replacement,but didn't make the same mistake as you,I didnt fancy owning a car that every man and his dog in essex has got.
So can you please stop trying too mug me off mate.
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I agree with people in general not knowing the capabilities. I dont drive a newer reanult for other reasons than its capabilities.
I cant accept that the video isnt just medio hype, after all the same magazine graded the RS above the R26R (4.5* v 4*) but thats a matter of opinion.
Having owned the ST for over a year now and cover 30k+ in it, whislt owning a ph1 172 (at the same time), I'll judge if I made a mistke or not purchasing an ST. What people own in essex doesnt influence me.
My previous cars owned include, a ph 2 172, 182, meggy 225, LCR, CTR and VX220 just for starters, so I have done my apprenticeships in hot hatches to pass comment. I havent knocked the clio at all in any of my posts in this thread, if it was an R26R infront not the RS I would be just as vocal.
I cant accept that the video isnt just medio hype, after all the same magazine graded the RS above the R26R (4.5* v 4*) but thats a matter of opinion.
Having owned the ST for over a year now and cover 30k+ in it, whislt owning a ph1 172 (at the same time), I'll judge if I made a mistke or not purchasing an ST. What people own in essex doesnt influence me.
My previous cars owned include, a ph 2 172, 182, meggy 225, LCR, CTR and VX220 just for starters, so I have done my apprenticeships in hot hatches to pass comment. I havent knocked the clio at all in any of my posts in this thread, if it was an R26R infront not the RS I would be just as vocal.
DrR
ClioSport Club Member
VW Golf GTD
a burnt one
Just to put a spanner into the works, it has occured to me that perhaps not everyone tracks a car, or drives round disused test circuits every day.
Speed round corners to a lot of people is irrelevant, 2 seconds here or there over a 4 minute drive means nothing to most car users, if splitting hairs is your bag then we can argue all day about 0-60mph times, speed through corners, whether torque is more relevant than BHP, power to weight ratios and the like.
Basically what we have in the video is a car that rattles and a car that rusts, the majority of driving license owners will see a mean looking Ford and think they wouldn't mind owning one, they will then see a renault clio and expect a pensioner or young girl to walk out.
Flame me, but most people (neutrals who do not own the car that the RS is pitted against in whatever road test) will still rather own the Focus, even those who can appreciate the Clio for what it is and the drive it delivers will still prefer the RS.
Tracks are different but i think in the hands of Joe Public on a weekend down the prom the focus will be quicker from the lights and down most Dual Carriageway sprints than most.
Speed round corners to a lot of people is irrelevant, 2 seconds here or there over a 4 minute drive means nothing to most car users, if splitting hairs is your bag then we can argue all day about 0-60mph times, speed through corners, whether torque is more relevant than BHP, power to weight ratios and the like.
Basically what we have in the video is a car that rattles and a car that rusts, the majority of driving license owners will see a mean looking Ford and think they wouldn't mind owning one, they will then see a renault clio and expect a pensioner or young girl to walk out.
Flame me, but most people (neutrals who do not own the car that the RS is pitted against in whatever road test) will still rather own the Focus, even those who can appreciate the Clio for what it is and the drive it delivers will still prefer the RS.
Tracks are different but i think in the hands of Joe Public on a weekend down the prom the focus will be quicker from the lights and down most Dual Carriageway sprints than most.
Clio 197
Your right Gary,most people probably would have the RS over the clio if you have 25k+ too spend on a new car.But if you only have 15k to spend on a new hot hatch then the clio would fit the bill.Total different price range from each other.
I think this vid is not about saying the clio is better than the RS,cos it ain't,but its too show just how good the 15k ish clio can be.
a burnt one
Yup i agree with that, what the clio does it does well, theres no disputing that, i think for what it's worth both the cars are overpriced, wheteher the difference between merits such a difference is another argument.
Both are aimed at different sectors within the motoring industry, being a neutral in here i would say if i had 25k i'd buy the new Focus, if i had 15k, im not sure i'd go for the clio TBH.
I'm just glad to see ford release an RS which IMO is the only one since the Cosworths of the Escort and Sierra worthy of the RS badge.
*sigh* as I said the difference between cars cornering speed isn't that great...look here at how the Focus RS compares to an ancient Escort RS.
You could drop the Clio 200 in there and the cornering speeds would be similar...the same would be true for an FD2 Civic, Clio Trophy and any other good hot hatch on good quality tyres. The performance advantage of the Focus is out of the corner, onto the straight and in some cases through a series of corners where the extra power can be deployed. The R26.R has the advantage of R888's which allow for greater cornering speeds as they are more resistant to slip than a 'proper' road tyre.
Given that Millbrook has little or no straights (at least in the video) the Focus is going to struggle to pull out any meaningful gap over such a short distance...give it a few laps and it might be a different story.
You could drop the Clio 200 in there and the cornering speeds would be similar...the same would be true for an FD2 Civic, Clio Trophy and any other good hot hatch on good quality tyres. The performance advantage of the Focus is out of the corner, onto the straight and in some cases through a series of corners where the extra power can be deployed. The R26.R has the advantage of R888's which allow for greater cornering speeds as they are more resistant to slip than a 'proper' road tyre.
Given that Millbrook has little or no straights (at least in the video) the Focus is going to struggle to pull out any meaningful gap over such a short distance...give it a few laps and it might be a different story.
123D Coupe + MK1 MX5
Is there actual proof that its a Clio appart from a green car in the reflection. Could it not be a green RS Focus. I have been in my mates RS and I doubt very much the Clio would keep up.
How s**t would that be?
"WHAT'S KEEPING UP? YES! ANOTHER FOCUS! YEY!!"
Tbh a lot of people are saying "the cars are in completely different sectors"
does that mean we can finally admit the focus is as far away from being a hot hatch as I am from my first shite?
it's a rally car, so it shouldn't ever be called "hot hatch".
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