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Hahaha I know mate - After 2 days of laying on my back working on it, when I got in and turned the wheel and it made that noise I nearly cried
Unusual comment, given that most people say that EPAS ruins feedback.
Personally TBH, Ive never really found much difference one way or the other to anything other than weight of steering.
GrahamS
ClioSport Club Member
335d
Just popped out to the garage. Sorted, chuffed
I can't really see a reason why it would prove to give any distinguishable difference. Maybe if it's over assisted like a lot of EPAS systems are then the feeling would be 'orrible. When it's off completely it feels like our old landy, now she's got some feedback, nearly broke my arm once.
As mine will be on my everyday car from later this month I'll be able to give a good review of the positives and negatives
Lol.
In my experience Phil loves everything he fits to his cars and tells everyone their wrong to have a differing opinion. Well that's until he's proven by others that some of the parts aren't all that or he couldn't get them to work properly himself.
Sorry maybe I should have said VARIABLE EPAS is awesome. Cos turning it off on track feels like holding the tie rods in your hands. It's amazing.
Just popped out to the garage. Sorted, chuffed
Glad you sorted itReally?
I fitted bilsteins, hated them, slagged them off for months and months. Hated my car. Complained endlessly about the understeer, stopped going on track and garaged it for 9 months. Very nearly broke it for parts because it was so utterly s**t on track.
Now fitted KW V2's, more camber, and EPAS and it goes round corners on rails. I was overtaking people that were running R888's at Cadwell on the outside of a corner on knackered Rainsports. It's amazing.
So where do you get the opinion that I love everything I fit and slate everything that others do?
Also I only fitted the EPAS and rack etc... because northloop and James have had such success. Before that point I actually thought EPAS was numb and crap - so ermmm yeah obviously just sl.ag everyone else off and never take other peoples suggestions/opinions LOL.
CS is hilarious
Sir_Dave
ClioSport Trader
Its goes around corners better because you have added more toe out on the front, & extra camber on the front/rear.
It has absolutely nothing to do with the rack, & probably nothing to do with the coilover change either.
Probably
*Cliosport - people who know more about a car than the driver.. since 2000*
*Cliosport - people who know more about a car than the driver.. since 2000*
Sir_Dave
ClioSport Trader
Changing the rack wont give it additional grip though Phil, it will simply affect the way the car turns the wheels.
Unless of course the rack added the additional toe & camber to the front end? Which I don't think it did, did it.
Unless of course the rack added the additional toe & camber to the front end? Which I don't think it did, did it.
I didn't say changing the rack made it grip better - I said changing the rack/pas system gave more steering feedback
I said changing the camber and coilovers made it grip better
I said changing the camber and coilovers made it grip better
I swear to god when people login to CS they just hit reply to threads without even reading them
It all helps though - if you can feel the point where the tyres are dying, you can back off a bit. I couldn't with the hydraulic PAS - or maybe the knackered rack bushes or whatever... and now I can
All I will say about the coilovers was first time out it was a bit understeery, came in, tweaked the damper rates about, went out felt better. That's something that was just plain impossible with the Bilsteins
Sir_Dave
ClioSport Trader
Well I am impressed then, if only as you are the only person in the known universe to prefer the feel of electric steering over hydraulic. Please buy some decent tyres before you waste any more money on this car though btw.
182cup & 172 racecar
At least it went on track eh Phil
More likely down to the rack bushes TBH, I suspect you would have found all the same improvements in feel if you just fixed that and used hydraulic.
Not knokcing the swap to EPAS by the way, I think its a good idea for reliability reasons (we had a power steering leak that landed on the belt and caused it to slip under the cambelt and bye bye valves) and I like the way it can be adjusted for weight, so it can be mega light while parallel parking etc and heavier in track.
But I just dont think its giving you more feel, the sort of thing you are talking about with feeling the tyres dying, is all about getting rid of play and just having a sensible weight to the steering, it matters not if its hydraulic or electric.
You realise you're posting that on a thread where half a dozen or more people now have converted from HPAS to EPAS right?
Have you ever driven a 172 that's been converted to EPAS?
Do you have any experience in what you're saying at all?
And no it wouldn't be quicker, the money I've spent isn't wasted, and that's pointlessly insulting. It's also massively ironic coming from a guy that has bought and sold more cars than I've had hot dinners for absolutely no reason whatsoever, but I "waste" money by continuously and gradually improving the car I have
At least it went on track eh Phil
Yes mate - and it's going on again ASAP
With the exception of fitting a diff I also have absolutely no more plans to do any more work and it's looking very good for the french series next year
Quite possibly mate - but my hydraulic pipes were all cracked and border line leaking, and the pump was wining so it was all worth doing.
I still also believe that being able to effectively switch between having assistance and having manual steering gives you a much improved feedback, the hydraulic assistance always felt a bit much in my opinion, but that's maybe just because of how light the car was or as you say because all the bushes were worn
No offence Phil but your car was a dog suspension wise with s**t tyres fitted from what I can gather in your posts but continued to complain about steering, suspension etc and that is why you have left yourself open to criticism on this I think.
Not at you Phil but related to your previous problems.
It happens FAR to much on here and a lot more recently for some reason. People post threads continuously with problems but don't take heed when advised, problems don't fix themselves and that problem could be the cause of another problem so don't post until you have resolved the other issues IMO.
Not at you Phil but related to your previous problems.
It happens FAR to much on here and a lot more recently for some reason. People post threads continuously with problems but don't take heed when advised, problems don't fix themselves and that problem could be the cause of another problem so don't post until you have resolved the other issues IMO.
It was a dog suspension wise? I spent £900 on bilsteins, eibach camber bolts, with powerflex bushes all round, brand new ball joints, etc... and it was a dog suspension wise?
Ironically I bought all that BECAUSE that was what people suggested, then I said it was a crap setup and wanted to swap coilovers and I got a barrage of "You just can't drive" comments - so I ignore them and swap my coilovers and tweak the setup then post up a message saying everything is now awesome and I get the same "You would have been better spending it on lessons" comments
I'm honestly about done with CS it's full of people that know better about your car than you do yourself and the only time I've been happy with my car in 2 years was when I ignored what everyone told me to do and did what I want. Lesson learnt methinks
FYI I still have the s**t tyres fitted
Ironically I bought all that BECAUSE that was what people suggested, then I said it was a crap setup and wanted to swap coilovers and I got a barrage of "You just can't drive" comments - so I ignore them and swap my coilovers and tweak the setup then post up a message saying everything is now awesome and I get the same "You would have been better spending it on lessons" comments
I'm honestly about done with CS it's full of people that know better about your car than you do yourself and the only time I've been happy with my car in 2 years was when I ignored what everyone told me to do and did what I want. Lesson learnt methinks
FYI I still have the s**t tyres fitted
GrahamS
ClioSport Club Member
335d
There's still a mechanical link so it should feel the same when assistance is tuned at the same level as the old system.
I did my conversion to reduce power sucking from the engine via the PS pump, (a/c already gone) to loose the risk of leaks (happened before but fixed under warranty, new cambelt, pumps etc.) and to have the adjustability for track, road and for my duchess.
It's not an electric rack which does change the feeling. Honest to god, it's the best thing for parking. Insanely light.
I did my conversion to reduce power sucking from the engine via the PS pump, (a/c already gone) to loose the risk of leaks (happened before but fixed under warranty, new cambelt, pumps etc.) and to have the adjustability for track, road and for my duchess.
It's not an electric rack which does change the feeling. Honest to god, it's the best thing for parking. Insanely light.
Yep - I was grinning my head off, had it turned mostly down on track and it was so lovely to use, but then went for a drive to skegness for fish and chips after the track session and whack it on full you might as well be driving a 1litre punto. It's awesome. Money well spent
182cup & 172 racecar
I'm glad you are happy with it.
GrahamS
ClioSport Club Member
335d
Sir_Dave
ClioSport Trader
Nope, which I why I didn't make my comment specific to clio's
I owned a 182 Trophy with a hydraulic rack, & a 197 Cup with an electric rack at the same time. I sold the 197 after 3 weeks.
And no it wouldn't be quicker, the money I've spent isn't wasted, and that's pointlessly insulting. It's also massively ironic coming from a guy that has bought and sold more cars than I've had hot dinners for absolutely no reason whatsoever, but I "waste" money by continuously and gradually improving the car I have
Its not pointlessly insulting at all, you currently have an epic spec 172 cup, on utterly sh1t tyres. Last time I checked, the only thing keeping the car connected to the ground was the tyres, so arguably the most important part of your car has been overlooked lol.
Re: my cars, I had a list of things I wanted to own before 30, i was simply working my way through them all.
Yes I agree my tyres are w**k - but does that mean every other thing I've done to the car is wasted? No course not. They're just not working to potential because of the tyres.
It will get fixed - I just didn't want to spend £400 on tyres while it was being used as a daily driver and they were getting killed
And yes I agree I drove a megane 250 and the electric rack was numb and s**t - but on the 172 with the variable setting it's awesome
I'm sure there will be a dozen more people saying the same when the rest of the conversions are complete
It will get fixed - I just didn't want to spend £400 on tyres while it was being used as a daily driver and they were getting killed
And yes I agree I drove a megane 250 and the electric rack was numb and s**t - but on the 172 with the variable setting it's awesome
I'm sure there will be a dozen more people saying the same when the rest of the conversions are complete
Seems perfectly logical to me that its an upgrade if you can select the amount of assistance, cant see anyone complaining about getting some choice
Will no doubt do it to mine eventually, and am planning it for the mk1 anyway rather than trying to join honda and renault PAS bits together, which means its just as easy to do electric column instead.
yup, snapped the lower rose joint on the cup racer damper, whoops
Not massively relevant to a 172 trackday hack then TBH.
Good going though
go hard or go home!I dont see how 18 is excessive TBH, but if you dont like my posts you could always just add me to your ignore list by clicking here:
http://www.cliosport.net/forum/profile.php?do=addlist&userlist=ignore&u=76029
will save you keep going on about it
http://www.cliosport.net/forum/profile.php?do=addlist&userlist=ignore&u=76029
will save you keep going on about it
Yet on the same bilsteins on my Full Fat 172 on PE2's I was out handling a caged/R888'd cup at Bedford
Jus sayin'
BTW Phil I wasn't trying to have a go, I'm in no doubt the EPAS is great but it was the least of your problems and not solely the fix your car needed. I have followed your car since I seen a video of it early last year iirc at Angelsey and it was pretty poor but also a bit annoying as I thought that's what I had bought into in a way with mine going to be a similar spec. You kept mentioning understeer and bad handling. I think all the car needed was new bushes and a proper setup that it was missing all of last year even on your old suspension. It just gets a bit annoying with people posting regularly with this issue and that issue when the base car is nowhere near suitable, your car goes to show get the little bits right and it will transform the car. Having good shocks etc means nothing with worn out base components.
Thought so, already got a few in my spares collection, did you replace with r-sport parts?
I guess mate - but my car wasn't exactly worn out, the bushes were all new before Anglesey, and the TRE's and the Bilsteins were brand new
Literally the only differences to this year are new inner TRE's, an extra -0.25 camber on front and -1 camber on rear and the KW V2's...
But like you say small things can make a big difference
Dan - I'm really glad you get the use out of them but I still hate the Bilsteins lol
I guess mate - but my car wasn't exactly worn out, the bushes were all new before Anglesey, and the TRE's and the Bilsteins were brand new
Literally the only differences to this year are new inner TRE's, an extra -0.25 camber on front and -1 camber on rear and the KW V2's...
But like you say small things can make a big difference
Dan - I'm really glad you get the use out of them but I still hate the Bilsteins lol
I thought you just replaced ball joints etc a month or so back and then the parts in this thread? Your car has been off the road hasn't it so it would be hard to knacker all them parts in what was a couple of 1000 miles no?
You also had it apart various times so any setup that was there had long gone really.
I replaced all the ball joints and bushes before Anglesey last year - I did them again this year because one had collapsed.
Done 3,000 miles but I guess the day at cadwell took it's toll on a cheap ball joint.
Well I had it setup on a hunter system and checked on a hunter system so i'm pretty sure that's the only changes
Done 3,000 miles but I guess the day at cadwell took it's toll on a cheap ball joint.
Well I had it setup on a hunter system and checked on a hunter system so i'm pretty sure that's the only changes
Im pretty sure it wasn't the Bilsteins considering you said they were spanking, they do get fairly good reviews and tbh the brand name says all you need to know when looking at suspension kits of any type or budget. Good your happy and ts fixed now, shows what £200 -£300 can do to these things at the age they are. Just buy some tyres and get a video up
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