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Cub's Flamer - Supercharged, Cage etc

Cub.

ClioSport Moderator
#1
Had it about 8 months now, bought from JMS with a replacement engine and gearbox. I have a varied car background, from humble rover metro GTAs to a 911 C4S, but I wanted a 172 to be able to get my hands dirty(ish) and the plan is to make it a fast road / occassional trackday car and mod it accordingly. So, stumbled across the flamer and bought it. It had the exhaust on it and a JMS map, but other than that was standard. Since I got my hands on it it has had;

Grooved discs
Braided brake lines
Ferodo DS2500's
Bilstein B14 Coilovers
Eibach 15mm Spacers all round
Halfords badge removed, 197 RS badge on

Currently looks like this;

DSCN3133.jpg

DSCN3143.jpg

DSCN3146.jpg

DSCN3150.jpg

More piccies have gone up in the media section. Plans in the new year are the following bits in the following order;

Bushes
Whiteline ARB's
OMP Front and Rear Strut Braces
Cams
ITBs
Strip out interior, bucket seats and a roll cage.

Considering getting the bullets in flame red, with yellow text. Whats the forum view on that? Hopefully see some of you at the south west rolling road day in Jan. Oh and it needs its dephaser done in Jan aswell.

Oli
 

Cub.

ClioSport Moderator
#4
Re: Cub 172's Flamer Project

Thanks chris!

On the whole I am really happy with them. Its not set at a ridiculously unpractical height, still gets over speed bumps but zero body roll and a lot sharper on twisties. Also feels a lot more planted at speed. Its yet to get seriously tracked so i'll be better informed come next summer!
 
#6
Re: Cub 172's Flamer Project

Looks lovely. Exhaust needs to be higher though. Looks like your mount is sagging. Wedge a socket under there and cable tie it in.
 

Cub.

ClioSport Moderator
#7
Re: Cub 172's Flamer Project

Looks lovely. Exhaust needs to be higher though. Looks like your mount is sagging. Wedge a socket under there and cable tie it in.
Mmm, i'll have a look into this Will. You can help me at the RR day at K-tec if you like ;). It may just be the angle of the photo as JMS fitted the exhaust prior to me buying it and doesn't seem to be sagging.....
 

Cub.

ClioSport Moderator
#8
Re: Cub 172's Flamer Project

Right, a busy weekend spent on the flamer and a mates 68 Mustang notchback. Update time then, which means i'm going to re-order the to-do list on here and start scratching things off as I go along over the next couple of years. But of a lengthy post i'm afraid, but lots to capture.

General

On the whole running well, but its up for its first rolling road on 21st (southwest day on here) so we will see. I'm expecting it to be down and its booked in to stay at K-Tec for cambelt, aux belt and dephaser. Sounding like the dephaser needs doing and although the belts were done at 50k in the service book (its now on 80k) i'm getting them done again as i'm not wholly trusting of the service book. Piece of mind, and also, getting some other work done (more exciting) that means its a convenient time to do the maintenance.

Braking

At the last MOT it didn't warrant an advisory but the mechanic advised the inside face of the Brembo Maxi discs that were on it were corroded quite badly on the inner face. Outer face looked fine still, but a PM to G 172 on here saw a pair of front Brembo HC's heading my way. The rears have brand new OEM Renault discs and I have recently put Ferodo DS2500's pads all round. So, this weekend saw me finishing the braking setup and generally having a sniff around the front arches. Sniffing around discovered the braided brake lines were Goodridge;

View attachment 69362

Then onto putting the new Brembo HC's on;

photo.jpg

So, braking done until it starts looking like serious track work in which case a wilwood 4 pot kit and big brake disc upgrade will be heading the flamers way), and the system comprises of;

Brembo HC Discs front (Done)
Renault OEM Rear (Done)
Goodridge Braided Brake lines (Done)
Ferodo DS2500's (Done)

Handling

Bilstein B14 Coilovers (Done)
OMP Strut Braces, front and rear (placing order this week)
Whiteline ARB

Engine

Exhaust (Temporarily done - was on the car when I bought it and I'm not planning on changing it until I see what Fred's new system is like)
438 Cams (Booked in for the 21st)
ITB's (likely to be done before the summer)
K-Tec engine mount kit (booked in on the 21st)

Exterior

Plan is to keep it looking exactly as it does above, with minor OEM driven tweeks;

Halfords badge off, RS 197 style badge on (Done)
Cup Spoiler (having seen Chippen's it will have to be done at some point)
Respray front 'plastic' bits (grille etc?) in satin black - looking a bit faded. A job for a weekend in Feb I think.
Tidy bullets up and get 2.0 16v text in flame red
For ITBs will need aeroflush catches, getting sprayshack on here to do them flame red to try and blend them as much as possible.

Interior

Will be going for full strip out and cage, buckets (likely Bimarco futuras) but this will only be when it is retired to a 'second car' which won't be for 18 months or so. So for now, its staying OEM (cash dependant I may be in discussion with Steve on his rather special 197 seats this month, dependant on if he can't sell them on his flamer for the value he wants.)

Cheers,

Oli
 
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#9
Re: Cub 172's Flamer Project

Mmm, i'll have a look into this Will. You can help me at the RR day at K-tec if you like ;). It may just be the angle of the photo as JMS fitted the exhaust prior to me buying it and doesn't seem to be sagging.....
Only just seen this. I'll show you mine if you're there.
 

Cub.

ClioSport Moderator
#10
Re: Cub 172's Flamer Project

I'll be there, see above, its booked in for some work after the RR day so i'll be going home in one of theirs! Be good to get a look at yours, I had a look this wkd and it is sagging slightly. See you on the 21st mate!
 

Jamesstone

ClioSport Club Member
#11
Re: Cub 172's Flamer Project

Still looking as good as the day you bought it from us! With some new shiny bits added too ;)

If I hadn't needed to rebuild the Megane I would have kept this one for myself, Really tidy car inside & out!
 

Cub.

ClioSport Moderator
#12
Re: Cub 172's Flamer Project

Hi James, cheers for the comments. Plan is to keep it looking tidy! Focusing on the engine and interior now, as i'm pretty much happy with it externally (need a different aerial and a minor change to the bullets and i'm done on the outside). Hopefully the interior will be blessed with some Bimarcos from you....

Oli
 

Cub.

ClioSport Moderator
#13
Re: Cub 172's Flamer Project

Right, update time. I took the Flamer to the South West RR day on Saturday. It ran 174.8 bhp and 157.6 lb ft. The graph should be below. I was happy with the figure as it was in need of some mechanical TLC (12K service, and cam / aux belt & dephaser).

Stock.jpg


I left the car at K-Tec for a whole bundle of things;

12k service
Cambelt / Aux belt & Dephaser
Group N Engine Mounts
Group N Gearbox Mount
Dog Bone bushes
An alternator bracket (mine had snapped off)
438 Cams
Full remap

Mike did a great job with the cams, and when Andy was mapping it, it quickly became clear that the standard induction and airbox was restricting the power. So, completely free of charge, Andy set about creating a custom induction set up using a universal breather filter and a K-Tec Megane II RS Induction hose kit, cut to fit. It was a bit of an experiment, but the effects were awesome. Great noise, and unlocked more power, and after some mapping wizardry by the guys and with all of the above done, we got a power run of;

197 bhp
165.6 lb ft

I'm well chuffed with both the overall increase (22bhp & 8 lb ft), but equally the whole feel of the car with the mounts. I love the lumpy cam idle, and with the induction changes the noise is unbelievable when you move past 4k rpm. The car pulls like a train, and feels completely transformed. Graph is below.

After438Cams.jpg


I honestly can't thank the guys at K-tec enough, they went the extra mile with the induction free of charge, and delivered some excellent results from the work on the Cams and the remapping. Top stuff. I'll see you for ITB's around August probably guys!
 

Cub.

ClioSport Moderator
#14
Re: Cub 172's Flamer Project

Unsure why the first graph has gone sideways - can anyone with better IT skills give me some advice...........:eek:
 

Cub.

ClioSport Moderator
#17
Re: Cub 172's Flamer Project

Cheers mate. Yep, i'm glad it seems to be a strong one, but even I was surprised it got up to the high 190's. Drives excellently, had a smile all the way home. Get saving for the ITB's now....
 

Cub.

ClioSport Moderator
#18
Re: Cub 172's Flamer Project

Yeah, the remap has sacrificed some lower end torque, but its not horrifically noticeable. I suppose i'll need to be hovering at 4k if I am in a mood to be making progress....plus it has pushed torque up slightly at 3k.
 
#20
Re: Cub 172's Flamer Project

Its the cam profile that has made a small dip in the torque at 3500 rpm, in all honesty you dont notice it on the road as the response is improved especially at part throttle.

however when you want the power it just keeps pulling.
 
#21
Re: Cub 172's Flamer Project

Yeah, the remap has sacrificed some lower end torque, but its not horrifically noticeable. I suppose i'll need to be hovering at 4k if I am in a mood to be making progress....plus it has pushed torque up slightly at 3k.
I would say that its not the remap, its the fact that the engines volumetric efficiency has dropped at that point in the rev range, and that you could have the best mapper in the world on the case and it sill wont match milder cams down that part of the rev range on the standard inlet.


Great results I think, for a car that you want to drive in a spirited fashion its got a really good spread of power at the points that matter on track etc, ie 5k plus.


Would be great to see the figures verified at the surrey rolling road day on saturday? As obviously everyone always takes "in house" rollers with a little pinch of salt as they have a vested interest in showing good results (not a dig at ktec, I just mean anywhere)
 

Cub.

ClioSport Moderator
#22
Re: Cub 172's Flamer Project

Clearly I've been educated that it's not the map and it's the cam profile causing the torque drop at 3.5k, lol. I have to profess, I'm no expert hence me not doing the work!

It does drive well, and the power comes through strong when called on. It was due to be at Surrey this wkd, but I have to go to Washington DC for work so had to cancel. I will see what my weekends are like when I get back, but I'll take it to Charlie at some point. Not because I distrust the k-Tec figures, because I am over the moon with how it drives and I'm more bothered about that than 'rolling road' bragging rights, but I have run cars on Charlies before so will be a good comparison.
 
#25
Re: Cub 172's Flamer Project

Oli, let us know how it goes at SRR, its always good to see comparisons made on other dynos.

David.
for what it's worth, Wobba's ITB'd williams made within 1bhp of his SRR result at ktec last month, Laines did a couple of horsepower less at ktec than at SRR. I'm happy they're consistent personally
 

Cub.

ClioSport Moderator
#26
Re: Cub 172's Flamer Project

for what it's worth, Wobba's ITB'd williams made within 1bhp of his SRR result at ktec last month, Laines did a couple of horsepower less at ktec than at SRR. I'm happy they're consistent personally
Originally Posted by K-Tec Racing

Oli, let us know how it goes at SRR, its always good to see comparisons made on other dynos.

David.


On the back of this, i'm unlikely to make a specific trip to Charlies at SRR, but if I do i'll let you know David. Mike and Andy did an excellent job on it, as I said above, i'm very chuffed. It will be back your way for some ITB's around August hopefully. Thanks again for the extra effort you guys put in free of charge, I appreciate it.
 

Cub.

ClioSport Moderator
#27
Re: Cub 172's Flamer Project

Eeek mines due to be mapped Monday, you have just worried me about the standard airbox not being up to the job... :(
I'd give Andy at ring at K-Tec mate, iirc he said the induction change unlocked another 11bhp.........but i'd ring him to make sure it wasn't my old age earing aid failing.
 
#30
Re: Cub 172's Flamer Project

I'd give Andy at ring at K-Tec mate, iirc he said the induction change unlocked another 11bhp.........but i'd ring him to make sure it wasn't my old age earing aid failing.
I'll had a quick word with him on facebook and he confirmed it was 11bhp!! Think i might have to see if they can sort me out something custom too, im egging to break the 200bhp barrier after seeing your results!! Can't wait until Monday :D
 

Cub.

ClioSport Moderator
#31
Re: Cub 172's Flamer Project

Right, update time. Been quite an eventful few months. Started the new year with a good mini-detail, which got the flamer looking like this (yes I know it lacks tyre shine :rasp:)

photo2.jpg

photo1.jpg

photo6.JPG

Nice and shiny, and I enjoyed it like this for about 8 weeks. Then the bad news started...

First, I ran into the electric gates at the back of my flat. Don't ask, can only be described as going 'full r****d' for 30 seconds. The damage wasn't too bad, only requires a new bumper and replacement washer jet, which I would have sourced through Spray Shack on here and not claimed on my insurance, therefore not hiking up my renewal cost. But, the damage to the electronic gate was a little more than 'superficial' meaning a claim through insurance had to be made. So, getting a replacement bumper through insurance is job number 1 on the to do list.

Before job number 1 could be done, I took the car to Devon and proposed to my girlfriend (she said yes, so expensive wedding times ahead for me). Whilst in Devon the flamer developed an ominous noise. This was when job number 2 appeared. I knew it was transmission related, so took it to K-Tec for the post mortem. Diagnosis was not good, the diff had gone, taking with it the gearbox.

This leads onto the good news. The need for a new gearbox and diff has allowed me to take the opportunity and invest a little more and get a Gripper limited slip diff put in. I'm really hoping to see the difference, especially as its due for ITB's later in the year and then some track work.

The second piece of good news is I bought a Nissan Micra SE for the other half. It also means I can use it for the short commute to work, general shopping trips and more mundane uses the Clio was previously used for. The reason this is good news, it is gives me the greenlight to strip the flamer, put a full cage and two bucket seats in it. So the to do list now looks like this;

- New gear box (used) fitted (April)
- Gripper LSD fitted (April)
- New front bumper (April)
- CTR aerial (May)
- Fit ITBs - hoping for 215 / 220ish bhp (Hopefully August, wedding budget dependant)
- Strip the interior (not full strip, likely to be 'clubsport racer' style, i.e. some creature comforts retained) (November)
- Fit Full 6 point Cage (white, likely to be a safety devices cage) (November)
- Fit Sparco Evo III (Man Size) seats (November)
- Change out steering wheel for 330mm dished wheel (undecided on which one yet) (November)

So, plenty to crack on with over summer. I am hoping to run a few trackdays this summer, with some tuition as well, to start to get the most out of it.
 
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Cub.

ClioSport Moderator
#33
Re: Cub 172's Flamer Project

Any pics of the intake upgrade bud?
Hands are still tied on that I am afraid...suggest you give K-Tec a ring mate.

As soon as I can share some piccies I will. I'll ask K-Tec if I can share them again when I am in to pick the car up with the new box / gripper diff.
 
#34
Re: Cub 172's Flamer Project

I'll share pics of mine, i wouldnt believe it to be a lot different and wasn't told its a secret. Just a good routing of induction hose and a universal RAMAIR foam induction kit. Although mine isnt a finished product.

Looking forward to seeing your results on ITB's
 
#35
Re: Cub 172's Flamer Project

I'll share pics of mine, i wouldnt believe it to be a lot different and wasn't told its a secret. Just a good routing of induction hose and a universal RAMAIR foam induction kit. Although mine isnt a finished product.

Looking forward to seeing your results on ITB's
Get em up!!
 

Cub.

ClioSport Moderator
#37
Re: Cub 172's Flamer Project

Right, been a while since I updated this thread, so whilst watching the footie I thought I would.

It came back with a nice new (used) reconditioned gearbox, with the Gripper Limited Slip Diff in. Took it off to the bodyshop to get the bumper sorted, and they did a great job. Returned the flamer in time for me to get fully re-acquainted with it before the Burpspeed Llandow trackday.

Travelled down to llandow with Tim (Trophy Claude on here) and the car was burbling along lovely. Pitched camp and met some guys off here, all of which were really friendly and a good laugh. Special mention goes to 2damnsly for helping me pitch the tent, Jay and Tony the burpspeed boys, James (BIGASH), Rhys Beal, Jamie 86, Daniel and Sam. Great bunch, and despite my ill health cheered me up no end.

Llandow was awesome, really enjoyed the day - more good banter, good to meet the failsport chaps, and the first time I got to put the flamer through its paces. It was my first track day and I was pretty nervous, but Jay (Burpspeed) came out with me for my first session and really helped - showing me the lines, and with great guidance on when to push the car and before I knew it I was settling in and really enjoying myself.

I was over the moon with how the car performed, didn't miss a beat, the LSD really came into play and it filled me with confidence allowing me to get quicker and quicker. The induction kit was certainly making me stand out as I went up the straight, such an addictive noise, and got some great comments from the guys watching as to how it sounds.

A few piccies from Llandow;

_DSC7747.jpg

_DSC7777copy.jpg

On the chase;

_DSC7782copy.jpg

working hard in the wet;

_DSC8123copy.jpg

Don't know why the pics may be coming out small. So, I was happy with the performance of the car, which makes me think ITB's are moving back in terms of priority. It had plenty of go for a track day novice like me, and I think i'd rather get better with the car in its current state then plump for ITBs so I can notice the performance improvement more.

I am however going to push on with the interior strip, buckets and a 6 point cage. Hopefully be done before the end of the year, but the wedding really is hammering the budget :(

Comments, good or bad, welcome as ever.

Oli
 
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Tim.

ClioSport Club Member
#39
Re: Cub 172's Flamer Project

Nice little update Oli, the car was on fine form and did sound great! Looking forward to the interior progress but appreciate that the wedding must take priority over everything..... well, most things ;)
 

Cub.

ClioSport Moderator
#40
Re: Cub 172's Flamer Project

Right, small update.

In the run upto the wedding, only a few small bits and bobs were done;

- Whiteline RARB fitted, definitely a recommended mod.
- swapped the aerial for a smaller one (porsche). Theres an extra 5 bhp right there ;)
- Bought the spoiler off Lukes dead Trophy - RIP. Autocrash on here did a great job spraying it and helped me with the fitting.
- Developed a misfire and idle problem, which was solved kindly by Chip popping round, diagnosing it and then helping me swap out the failed injector. Top bloke :clap:

Few piccies;

photo2-2.jpg


photo5-2.jpg


As it stands now, running fine again :)

photo1-2.jpg


Finally, booked it in at K-Tec for lots of goodies early december, so there will be a more comprehensive update then :eek:

Oli
 
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