Clio won't start first time? But second time is always fine

[RichB]

Hi guys, if I leave the Clio for a few days the first time I try to start the Clio it catches but then shuts off. Second time it then starts 100% fine. I waiting on a code reader but a while ago had a read saying cylinder 3 misfire. Could this be causing it? I've had new coil pack and leads a few months ago and plugs where changed this time last year.

thanks

 

[Chi]

Sounds like fueling but what do I know Chip-mk1

 

[craigy2703]

Mine does this every morning if it's got shell premium in it been told there is an ecu update for it

 

[biojo]

would it cost for the upgrade though.

few years ago mine would only do this if it had been running at temp then was turned off n on few mins after, but second time started straight away.

now its like this from cold, i just presumed it was tdc starting to fail

 

[RichB]

I've only recently started running it on 99 and vpower (last 2tanks) could this be a symptom then?

the car gets driven about once a week when I goto the office and does a 20mile trip each way so was a little concerned it's not long enough.

 

[Dan@SJM]

Try turning the ign on for 5 sec, then off, the. Try and start. Let me know the result.

 

[RichB]

Ok, will give it a go in a few days once the car has been sat still for a few days. Doesn't seem to be an issue if the car is used daily.

 

[Chip-mk1]

Might be losing fuel pressure (leaky injector for example) and so when turning over initially it hasnt had a chance to prime properly.

 

[Chip-mk1]

Ah, I see Mr Potter is already thinking along those lines!
Yeah do as he said, turn it on, let it prime, then off and then on again to prime a second time, then try starting.

 

[Dan@SJM]

It's usually the pressure regulator in the tank.

 

[Chip-mk1]

It's usually the pressure regulator in the tank.

Yeah ive had that too, so far Ive seen:
Leaking injector
Leaking fuel line
Leaking reg

At least these french cars keep our lives interesting by having the same fault in lots of places to keep us on our toes eh mate? lol

 

[RichB]

What's the best way to confirm what it is? I'll need to wait a few days to try the prime before start idea.

I'll have an obd reader soon hopefully which may help. Is it an expensive fix? Or could I just carry on as normal and no damage will be done?

 

[Chip-mk1]

Find out if it is what me and Dan think it might be first (ie loss of pressure)

If it is, then you need to narrow down why.

Injectors you can test by removing the rail and see if they leak.

Lines you can check by just giving a really good look over.

Regulator only way to check really is to swap the pump assembly out for a different one (assuming phase 2 as you say its a 182 FF in your bio) or if its a ph1 not that 182 FF then swap the regulator on the rail

 

[Chip-mk1]

PS

by "regulator" we mean that whole assembly, it can also be the plastic pipe inside the pump assembly connected to the reg as well.

 

[aucky]

Injectors you can test by removing the rail and see if they leak.

Do you mean simply remove the rail with the injectors still attached, prime the pump and look for drips?

 

[Chip-mk1]

Do you mean simply remove the rail with the injectors still attached, prime the pump and look for drips?

Yes, still connect electrically and with the fuel line.

Obviously be careful as the stuff is flammable and the main live to the alternator is just underneath it!

 

[aucky]

Eek! maybe get some plastic sheeting underneath first then.

Can you replace an injector on its own or is best practise to replace all 4?

 

[Chip-mk1]

No problem to replace one so long as its like for like.

Best bet is to get a couple of spares, then send all 6 off for testing, and pick the 4 closest!
(any that leak get cleaned too of course, or better still get all cleaned to be sure)

 

[craigy2703]

Try turning the ign on for 5 sec, then off, the. Try and start. Let me know the result.

This works everytime on mine but with anyother fuel except vpower it starts everytime first time with shell it does this

 

[RichB]

Ironic this has started to happen since I've put vpower or 99ron in!

 

[craigy2703]

Ironic this has started to happen since I've put vpower or 99ron in!

Next time you fill up use the standard stuff and see if it does it one tank of it won't hurt I don't think

 

[Chip-mk1]

i think you are getting distracted by a co-incidence TBH on the fuel type thing.

 

[Lozza-p]

mine does this but only when its left overnight, When its left all day at work it starts fine

 

[craigy2703]

i think you are getting distracted by a co-incidence TBH on the fuel type thing.

I've had the car three years I've swapped fuels from vpower to sainsburys big standard at least 40 times and it happens everytime too much for a coincidence

 

[Chip-mk1]

I've had the car three years I've swapped fuels from vpower to sainsburys big standard at least 40 times and it happens everytime too much for a coincidence

Do you mean you have been trying to run it on 95 Ron?

if so. Terrible idea. I assumed you meant different fuels that were still actually suitable to run your car on.

 

[craigy2703]

Do you mean you have been trying to run it on 95 Ron?

if so. Terrible idea. I assumed you meant different fuels that were still actually suitable to run your car on.

It starts first time on Ron 95 -tesco ultimate- sainsburys premium anythin I ran it three months on tesco ultimate fine one tank of v power every morning it won't start first time for the whole tank then full tank of sainsburys 95 or 98 starts first time everytime

 

[RichB]

I've been using it for the last 2 days and both mornings it has done it so its got worse from when it started a few weeks ago, however I will make sure I remember to check it in the morning to see if this works. Upside just smashed my MPG record by hitting 37mpg driving to Wales and back today!

 

[aucky]

A quick google suggests the kinematic viscosity of:

VPower = 0.5-0.75mm2/s at 40°C

BP = 0.5 to 0.75 mm2/s at 20°C

I was expecting (if anything) this to suggest that Vpower might be less viscous and more prone to leaking / pressure loss. If these figures are correct it would suggest the other way round? (Given that viscosity will be inversely proportional to temperature)

 

[RichB]

Worked a treat doing the ore prime. I'll keep it going for a while and see if the code reader finds anything when it turns up.

cheers guys

 

[Chip-mk1]

Worked a treat doing the ore prime. I'll keep it going for a while and see if the code reader finds anything when it turns up.

cheers guys

I doubt the code reader will tell you anything as its almost certainly a mechanical fault (non return valve knackered, injector dirty or sticking, regulator pipework leaking etc)

 

[RichB]

A few months back a friend with a reader picked up a cylinder 3 missfire so I'm wondering if the injector and this are related? I've replaced the leads and coil pack and injector 4 in the last 12months so will check with the reader to see if the same code comes up and swap the injector if so and see if it continues. Isn't really an issue unless the lines are leaking somewhere but im getting solid MPG/range still so would be suprised if its a leak.

 

[Chip-mk1]

If its leaking back into the tank from the non return valve you wouldnt lose a drop, it just wouldnt be in the lines anymore for example.

 

[M.A.C]

has anyone found a leaky injector to be causing the issue? I'm going to check mine today after replacing my fuel pump with a new one still does not start first time without turning the key.

Always used V-power since owning the car.

 

[M.A.C]

Just removed the injectors, turned the ignition off and on (not starting the car) and no dribble at all..

Whats the chance of the fuel line having a very small leaks somewhere?

 

[M.A.C]

anyone thought of just replacing the regulator - found this on eBay http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/RENAULT-1...arts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item5ada220b66

 

[Dan@SJM]

Won't fit.

 

[M.A.C]

Won't fit.

Is that part similar to the pressure regulator that seems to fail?

So if you have a 172 your not going to get this problem?

 

[sum-dj]

mine used to do this when my battery was on its way out. i used to turn ignition on, leave it 30 seconds then start. also my trip counter used to reset every time i started car, think that's a sign of battery dying.
just a thought.

 

[M.A.C]

Won't fit.

How does this one look?

http://mrinjectoruk.co.uk/Bosch-fuel-pressure-regulator-0280160524-300kpa-P598607.aspx

 

[Dan@SJM]

Same as the other one.