car feels 'loose' and twitchy after full alignment

[Hodgins]

hey guys, took the car for a good drive over the mountain roads at the weekend, and all of a sudden it feels really loose so to speak,

the car is down on k-tec coilovers (save the flaming for another thread please lol) and havent had any problems, i got used to the feel and was confident 'pushing' the car

this week i added the pure motorsport solid mounts and brace, and the turn in was really sharp and wasn't 'twitchy'. Then i put four brand new pirelli pzeros on and had everything aligned and tracked, caster, toe etc

And since having it aligned the turn in doesnt seem to be as sharp on a spirited drive sunday, i had no confidence in the car as it felt too twitchy in the back, i would have thought the tracking etc would improve things and i had the same pirellis on before i put new ones on

now im not a fast driver by any means, just was testing it through the corners
if it helps i got before and after reading of the caster toe etc
any help would be great cheers

 

[KevF182]

Its 100% down to your new tyres

 

[Ady182]

Mine felt like this just after new tyres, It will settle down

 

[mitch1503]

I had same problem with new tyres on the rear.. Was ok after a few hundred miles n tyres scrubbed in abit

 

[KevF182]

new tyres can make car feel like its on castors for first few hundred miles, its mainly the rears that take longer to scrub up and drive out the mould release agent (or is that an urban myth?). Anyway, it can take a while for new tyres to begine feeling sharp. Just my experience.

 

[Hodgins]

brilliant, thanks for the help
its just I spent a small fortune this week and the car felt worse for it lol

so the fronts will need to be 'scrubbed in' aswell to regain some 'sharpness' ?

 

[KevF182]

all you can do is drive it. The rears just take longer to "scrub in" (not sure its the exact tecnical term but you know what I mean) because they do less work. For a while the fronts will be a lot grippier than the rears, try swapping them front to back after 500 miles, if you can be arsed!

 

[Goodj]

as above, rotate your tyres after a few hundred miles

 

[Hodgins]

Brilliant, thanks for the advice
feel a lot less disheartened now lol

 

[TheEvilGiraffe]

Tyre pressures checked ?

 

[Hodgins]

yeah, i got 32psi all round, i know its meant to be different front and back but its what ive alway ran

 

[TheEvilGiraffe]

Far too much in the rear !

31/29 or 33/31 .. something like that ... RTFM

 

[payton31]

i tend to run 33psi in the front and 31psi in the back, i find the bak feels more 'stanced' then

 

[Hodgins]

lol, was waiting for that, slap on the wrist for me then

theres a similar thread i just read regarding toe in/out

when i had alignment done then had a hunter system if that means anything and they asked me the engine code so i said F4R, so im assuming they would have all the correct setting on their computer ?

 

[TheEvilGiraffe]

Suspension set up is a very personal thing. Also small changes in geo can amount to huge changes in feeling. How is the ride height front>rear ? How hard are the corners set (presuming adjustable damping?)... I found even 2 or 3 clicks stiffer on the rear of my old ph1 would have a huge difference in turn in/handling etc.

Sort the pressures out, brim the tank and go for a blast up to Aberystwyth for lunch.

If it's still naff when you get home, then.. er.. do some more homework, or get some decent coilies

:evil:

 

[Hodgins]

Pretty even arch gap front and rear, with a rake, adjustable damping on ktecs? Pffft id be lucky lol
Ill pop up my alignment stuff now

 

[Joe R26]

Be interesting to see your alignment print out.

 

[Hodgins]

crappy quality but you can still read the figures, im clueless with this stuff guys, this is why i do what work i can myself as i can understand it haha

before:

After:

 

[Joe R26]

Looks like they got yours right. Toe out as it should be according to Renault specs. Running quiet a lot Of camber though!

Probably why it feels so different. Toe was miles out before.

 

[Hodgins]

I cant make head nor tail of it, how can you tell they got the toe right? Is that the 0,11? Told you i was useless
Ive been running that camber for quite a while, long story but its fixed at that for the moment until i get some new camber bolts, is a degree of camber loads then as by visually looking at my wheels, i can tell they are slightly camberd but not OMG! Lol

 

[rollerdan]

Where is this place dude ? Need mine done

 

[Hodgins]

Mototec in pontllanfraith
£39.50 + the dreaded so £47.50 ish

 

[Joe R26]

It's the bit that says 0.16

Renault recommend 0.12 give or take.

I think the camber on my standard cup suspension is -0.5

It's all down to preference I would have thought that your camber would wear the insides of the tyres.

Camber Is good for cornering but not so good for straight roads or launching. That's what I've read anyway!

 

[Hodgins]

Ah i see, if im honest i havent read it all properly, ill have to start learning, cheers for the help though. So thats ruled out alignment errors, ill have to get on the case of some new camber bolts

 

[Joe R26]

Also excessive camber would make it skittish over rough surfaces iirc

 

[Hodgins]

yer it tends to tramline slightly,
been looking on here and found that -1.5degree of camber is recommended for road use
so im four minutes out on the right and 18 out on the left lol not 'too' bad

 

[MonkeyKnifeFight]

When i put camber bolts on i got through a new pair of Parada's in 3000 miles but to be fair i did dial in a bit too much camber!! front end grip was awesome mind.

 

[Hodgins]

lol, how much camber we talking ?

 

[MonkeyKnifeFight]

As much as the Eibach camber bolts would allow. So too much but the turn in was so addictive i couldnt be arsed to change it, also i was on 15's so Parada's were 30 quid a go. Camber bolts will obviously increase tyre wear but if you stick with 1.5 im sure you'll be fine.

 

[KevF182]

crappy quality but you can still read the figures, im clueless with this stuff guys, this is why i do what work i can myself as i can understand it haha

before:

After:

I've noticed on this forum that there is a difference of opinion of how toe in and toe out are written. To me this graph says you have toe in. Toe OUT has a negative value. This is the only forum where I've seen it suggested that Toe OUT is positive. Not saying I have to be right, but I recommend you look it up if you're really keen on learning.

 

[Italian_Job]

crappy quality but you can still read the figures, im clueless with this stuff guys, this is why i do what work i can myself as i can understand it haha

before:

After:

how did they manage fixing the rear camber and toe when none of em is adjustable?

 

[Italian_Job]

I've noticed on this forum that there is a difference of opinion of how toe in and toe out are written. To me this graph says you have toe in. Toe OUT has a negative value. This is the only forum where I've seen it suggested that Toe OUT is positive. Not saying I have to be right, but I recommend you look it up if you're really keen on learning.

you're right, i got the wheel aligned last week requesting a specific toe out settings and I have the print showing -0 12'

 

[Hodgins]

to all the above questions im not sure how they corrected the back, it crossed my mind as he never even went near the back
so by having my toe in, ive lost my sharp turn in ?

 

[KevF182]

It was toe in before as well, more so in fact. I wondered how the rear axle had been altered also :S, very odd that!

Your front settings look not too bad to me, I'd just prefer a wee bit of toe out.

 

[Hodgins]

I may give them a ring about the rear tomorrow,
Ill put it down to the tyres then, just been out to run sum errands and the body roll has appeared out of nowhere, dont get me wrong i know my coilovers arent the best but it 100% feel different

Ill put it down to tyres as others have said, i cant justify having it redone lol, obviously the car is now better for it whatever has been done

 

[Italian_Job]

Remember the stock setting for 182s is -0 12' toe just in case you wanna give it a go next time!

http://www.cliosport.net/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=11817&d=1157577856