172 Clutch or Circlip?

[james_swimmer]

Hi, I'm pretty new on here only picked the car up last weekend (172 cup).

I was coming around a big roundabout, going quite fast (first time i've driven it in the dry) about 5-6k in 2nd, all of a sudden it felt like it had popped out of gear, the revs shot up etc. So my immediate reaction was clutch in and back into 2nd and clutch up. With the clutch up there was no power, the engine was running fine i could feel all the gears but none of them would 'engage'.

I called out mr.RAC to tow me home, he thinks its probably the clutch. Is it possible in this situation that it could simply be the circlip? Of course i'll be having a look tomorrow, any advice on exactly where to look and what to look for, only had the car a week so still feeling my way around.

When in gear with the clutch up and engine running the speedo does go up as if a was moving.

Also just in case does anybody know of a good garage to take it to in renault if it is the clutch.

Thanks,

James

 

[james_swimmer]

Just found the circlip guide will check all of that tomorrow does sound like it could be that. So now i hope its the circlip but also hope that shaft hasn't lost its 'needle bearings'? Do the needle bearing refer do the shaft splines? same thing? Or will i know what they are when i have it in pieces?

 

[f0xy]

If the car wont move but the revs go up when its in gear, and the speedo rises, it will be the circlip.

 

[Alec Jones]

Not circlip for sure, although this is defo what I would check first. This is exactly what happened to me, and my circlip was still in place.

Turned out I had stripped the splines on the off side drive shaft (despite JMS assuring me they had checked this and they were fine!).

 

[Jay Payne]

Id go for driveshaft,

Will check the thread in a few days time when you have had it looked at by a garage and found out exactly what it is

 

[f0xy]

Question someone may be able to answer as Ive yet to see a clio box/diff fully apart and seperate.......

If the speedo is going up the diff has to be spinning correct? If not how is it driven?

If that's the case how is the diff spinning if the N/S shaft is still in place? Just shifting 100% of the load to the O/S shaft and spinning that on its own?

 

[Bazzon]

Sounds like what happened when i managed to blow the circlip of our PH 1 at Croft.

 

[james_swimmer]

Well i've had a good look at it, the diff was clicking and had no resistance on the offside, so i took it out to inspect the splines etc, no problems with the splines all ok diff feels horrible when turned by hand

If i turn it it clicks as if it has popped out of whatever hold it, if i push it in the clicks are louder and shaft is clearly jumping between splines or whatever is inside the diff.

Any ideas on this, has anybody ever taken the diff apart at home? If so what is involved?

I didn't check the nearside shafts and circlip as everything felt ok at that end. Is there anyway that this could be happening because the circlip has popped out and the driveshaft removed itself from the other end?

 

[Alec Jones]

I really would check the circlip in this case. It is what locates the diff in the box, and therefore what provides the mesh engagement of the diff's bevel gear. The clicking sounds you are speaking about could be the diff bouncing in and out of engagement with the final drive of the box?

Essentially you want to check the driveline from left to right to ensure everything is ok along there. Mine had stripped the female splines on the inside of the off side driveshaft, and as a result the diff what just spinning up and that is why I could still register a speed on the dial. If the circlip is in place and looks ok, and all drive components look good across the front then it may be something a little more serious.

 

[james_swimmer]

Yea i've been thinking about it a bit more, taking this afternoon off work to take the NS driveshaft out and have a look around. The clicking could also have been the diff bouncing in and out of engagement with the NS drive shaft, I'm assuming this is how it works, with both wheels i the air spin one and the other will spin the opposite way?

Thanks for you help everyone, just praying its only the circlip now.

 

[james_swimmer]

Question someone may be able to answer as Ive yet to see a clio box/diff fully apart and seperate.......

If the speedo is going up the diff has to be spinning correct? If not how is it driven?

If that's the case how is the diff spinning if the N/S shaft is still in place? Just shifting 100% of the load to the O/S shaft and spinning that on its own?

I'm pretty sure that is the case unless you have a LSD (limited slip differential) fitted, thus limiting the slip on one side and not allowing it to spin freely as appears to be happening in mine.

 

[Matteh]

Question someone may be able to answer as Ive yet to see a clio box/diff fully apart and seperate.......

If the speedo is going up the diff has to be spinning correct? If not how is it driven?

If that's the case how is the diff spinning if the N/S shaft is still in place? Just shifting 100% of the load to the O/S shaft and spinning that on its own?

the diff still spins, but all the torque goes to the disconnected sunwheel (which connects the driveshaft to the diff planet gear)


there's a neat guide on clio16v

 

[james_swimmer]

Just one more question before i check the circlip later, is it a good idea for me to not drain the oil from the sump plug and drain it from the driveshaft-diff boot, as any broken pieces of circlip or diff casing will then get flushed out? I have got trays to catch the oil. I assume i'll then have to drain from the sump plug after to remove all the oil so that i can re-fill correctly once i've hopefully sorted everything?

 

[Alec Jones]

With both wheels in the air, and the car in gear, spinning one wheel should result in the opposite wheel spinning the other way. But if you have a problem along the driveline somewhere this may not happen anymore.

From what I have heard, I would be surprised if the circlip was actualy in pieces, it is essentially a spring, so it will have just popped out of its groove. But I guess its your call on where to drain it from, depends what access you end up with. I will check this thread again later, so let us know how you get on.

 

[james_swimmer]

Ok so i took it all to pieces, as i hoped the circlip had popped off, tried getting the new one in, took me a while to realise the pot inside the diff had moved out by 5mm, so it was impossible to get the circlip in until i had gently tapped that back in. Before i tapped it in i pulled it out to have a look at the teeth on the back, a few teeth had some serious wear on them, is it possible to find a replacement part for this?

All back in now feels as it should, but i haven't started tha car yet as i decided to do an oil change while out there but then couldn't get hold of a new filter anywhere! And i wasn't going to put new oil in with an old filter!

So i'll have to wait until tomorrow to see if everything is ok, going to do it first thing and see how it goes.

 

[Alec Jones]

So it is confirmed as the circlip then. Just see how you get on, but I am sure you have read that just putting a new clip in (I assume you bought a new one) doesn't necessarily fix the problem! As sometimes it damages the groove when it pops off making it more likely to pop off again.

On a side note, if it does pop off again, I have a spare 172 box! lol.

 

[james_swimmer]

Yes it was the circlip, all working ok now, yea i am aware that it may be a recuring problem, but i have welding facilities at home so if it goes again i'll try the welding option before paying for a new box.

I couldn't see or feel anywhere that felt damaged around the groove, the old circlip was bent as the tab washer had lost its tab and twisted a bit which i assume pushed the circlip out. So all i can do it hope that it stays in for a while! I must admit i haven't been confident enought to put my foot down yet!