ClioSport.net
Register a free account today to become a member!
Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!
-
When you purchase through links on our site, we may earn an affiliate commission. Read more here.
Congrats to DanPl6 on cracking 200bhp (rs2 + 197 cams)
- Status
Who is that you are referring to mate?
I probably know them as I know a lot of people in the vauxhall world from the technical stuff I have written over the years for Total Vauxhall magazine, Ive worked on the mag as a journo for about half a dozen years now on and off.
Getting something similar made functionally isnt out of the question, in fact you could better it from a performance point of view if you made the changes me and Nick were discussing, but to get it made so it fits as perfectly as the RS2 does in terms of the aircon being retained and stand slam panel being retained etc would be far more difficult.
Michaelfoz
ClioSport Club Member
Clios
.
Last edited:
Fair play on the results, I am a fan of rs2 manifolds.
Anyone used the rs2 and 438s/421 cams?
Anyone used the rs2 and 438s/421 cams?
Megane r26
What sort of costs are we looking at if we were to do a group buy/limited production run on the rs2's?
You have a point, but I've always liked the RS2 so I think I'll always head towards getting a single throttle body plenum setup. Plus the power delivery makes a big difference to me, I know you can get similar delivery from ITB's but cost again falls into it for me as well as not being able to get a perfectly linear power delivery like the RS2. Having got an M3 Evo, I'm a massive fan of progressive/linear power curves.
Also regarding the plenum spacer Chip, do you think there's more room for scope even with standard/197 cams? Or is that an option that you think you can then utilise a high lift/more aggressive cam?
SharkyUK
ClioSport Club Member
Meh... 
Congrats on the fantastic figure. For relatively minor mod's that is just plain impressive. Great work!
Congrats on the fantastic figure. For relatively minor mod's that is just plain impressive. Great work!
Not yet that I am aware of, James who makes them got over 200bhp with a set of C&B camshafts, but he didnt like the power delivery as there was a big dip in it part way up, it kind of came on hard then died off and then came on hard again, Im fairly convinced that altering the cam timing and possibly a bit more mapping could have smoothed that out a bit at least though.
The only thing that's weird on this picture is that your torque figures massively low Dan? Something like only 145lb/ft, or am I not reading something properly?
I would imagine they will cost the same as on the last group buy more or less, seems unlikely given the lack of inflation recently that they will have gone up much. (im sure the thread must still be on here somewhere?)
I think James is still off snowboarding at the moment though so I guess it will be a while before he can give an answer, it would certainly be good to see another run of them made though
(obviously if people want them modified my MWM to fit Ph1 that will increase the cost a bit, and if people want the upgrade work that Mike from MWM gets done on them to slightly improve flow then that will increase it as well)
143 the torque figure is mate mate, typically they make nearer to 150 on the standard cams with an RS2 (is that what you mean its low compared to?), but the 197 cams seem to lose you a little bit on the way up but then hold on longer so its a trade off.
The reason its low under 3.5K, is just that they obviously got it up and running first and then floored it rather than holding on the rollers brake at 2K and then flooring it then releasing the brake, so ignore the low figures under that. I'd like to see it run at SRR at some point as im more used to their graphs, but Dan obviously wants to always use the same place he has for his other clios.
Last edited:
Yeh 143, but I didn't test it before I fitted it so it could naturally have been a low figure.
Megane r26
I would imagine they will cost the same as on the last group buy more or less, seems unlikely given the lack of inflation recently that they will have gone up much. (im sure the thread must still be on here somewhere?)
I think James is still off snowboarding at the moment though so I guess it will be a while before he can give an answer, it would certainly be good to see another run of them made though
(obviously if people want them modified my MWM to fit Ph1 that will increase the cost a bit, and if people want the upgrade work that Mike from MWM gets done on them to slightly improve flow then that will increase it as well)
Yeah it would be nice to see them availible again, I spoke to james when there were first on display at fcs a few years ago back when I had my ph2 172.
Really is a nice looking product, looks quality an seems to be giving good results even on standard managment especially now you guys are putting abit more development in with the 197 cams etc.
Well done Dan for reaching your desired target too.
Thanks guys, as said it couldn't have been done without the input from Chip and Mike. All I've really done is the bolt on side of it, driving it and letting chip know how it was. And of course much thanks should also go out to Lesley for putting up with me being round late nights trying to get it right lol.
Yeah its a pain that you dont have a before graph from the same rollers for the same car, would be far more meaningful then as a comparison.
I really hope Mike from MWM gets a chance to put his on the rollers before he pulls it apart to sell to Tim, as he has a before graph, then a graph for std inlet and 197 cams etc, so would make for interesting reading if he can.
Last edited:
Interesting. That's quite a lot of torque to loose though compared to the standard 1*2 cams, as most did 150lb/ft until like 7,000 rpm and then still make about the same as Dans has after. Only difference between the cams is the 197 cams make 5-10bhp more.
I think that would put me off a bit. Like I've probably said a million times with the 50mm extensions I had, it gave me a delivery much like Dans has, but with 156lb/ft of torque which I can imagine will make a noticeable difference in feel.
I'm guessing if you made the runner length longer with the 50mm extensions and plenum spacer you may well pick out a lot more torque from these cams or am I wrong?
Dan - I hope it doesn't sound like I'm trying to put a downer on your results as I'm not, just interested to see if there's further work that could be done to get more torque from it.
Bet it still races on and sounds mental at 7700+rpm!
Bet it still races on and sounds mental at 7700+rpm!
Tbh I wish I had mine rolling roaded as standard. To give a decent comparison. The 2 other 172's thy have been tested there within the last month have made 148lb-ft one had a ktec setup and a cat back, the other was a freaky cup that has my matched inlets and decatted stealth with oem induction/after market panel. So I'm only 5lb-ft off that, but they vary that much anyway!
Ph1 172 & Clio DCi
Graphs are one thing! How a car drives is another!
If I threw you the keys to my ph1. You wouldn't want to get out of it!
If I threw you the keys to my ph1. You wouldn't want to get out of it!
Turbo 182 Alfa 159
Not so much a company and doesn't produce them on the mass but covers his own high power cars and always help his mates out etc.
Called Ricky Kershaw? Had a crazy red Corsa B. Had a feature not so long back.
True Mike, though I feel you'd notice 13 LB/FT less of torque a lot more than you would with 6bhp extra (comparing my old setup to Dans).
Was yours a cup also Nick? I've usually found the cups make more before hand anyway.
I dont think there is anymore torque to come from this particular car now, but I also very much doubt it had anymore than that to begin with as it wasnt a particuarly strong car to begin with,
For example Emmas cup used to leave it for dead before the work, but now its the other way around.
Thats the problem with comparing between different cars with the clio, its this stupid thing where they vary so much to begin with
Ive seen graphs from SRR for standard cars everywhere between 135lbft and 165lbft (which Im sure you will be aware of as its millerins freaky cup) so trying to compare mods from one of them to another would be pointless.
Dan have you got Daz's graph, as IIRC that is a car that you said drove very similar to yours to begin with, so the closest we will get to a before graph for yours?
Agreed, but a feeling from driving isnt something you can post on a forum so graphs are the closest any of us can get to comparing cars across the net really, lol
I haven't. Ill fire him a text and send him this way
I could take it back to ktec where it made 160 odd at the wheels before hand? Lol
Not a feature I wrote that one I am afraid mate, have you got pics of what he has made?
And not meaning to doubt him but did he just copy something or does he understand plenum volumes and runner length etc? Turbos are a LOT more forgiving in this respect.
Ph1 172 & Clio DCi
Ill get an overlay of standard Vs now on the same dyno.
That'll be ideal if you can do that with your one before you pull it apart.
I suppose I could do to as well with Lesleys if we take it back to SRR, although hers was matched inlets etc before hand but we all know that only makes a few bhp difference at best.
Dan - Indeed mine was a Cup.
Indeed yeah I've heard about Millerins Cup, I think my old engine (Mikes current engine I believe) was strong one as that made 181bhp / 167lb/ft of torque on the standard inlet with just basic breathing mods.
I guess even comparing two cars with RS2's but different specs is still pointless, like you said they get such varied results from the exact same spec engines!
I dont think there is anymore torque to come from this particular car now, but I also very much doubt it had anymore than that to begin with as it wasnt a particuarly strong car to begin with,
For example Emmas cup used to leave it for dead before the work, but now its the other way around.
Thats the problem with comparing between different cars with the clio, its this stupid thing where they vary so much to begin with
Ive seen graphs from SRR for standard cars everywhere between 135lbft and 165lbft (which Im sure you will be aware of as its millerins freaky cup) so trying to compare mods from one of them to another would be pointless.
Dan have you got Daz's graph, as IIRC that is a car that you said drove very similar to yours to begin with, so the closest we will get to a before graph for yours?
Indeed yeah I've heard about Millerins Cup, I think my old engine (Mikes current engine I believe) was strong one as that made 181bhp / 167lb/ft of torque on the standard inlet with just basic breathing mods.
I guess even comparing two cars with RS2's but different specs is still pointless, like you said they get such varied results from the exact same spec engines!
Turbo 182 Alfa 159
I'm sure I can dig some out, if you have seen his Corsa the tubular manifold, exhaust and all his pipework is all done by his brother. Done some stuff for few other high power vxrs etc too.
Was just a thought, would be curious to see if it could be done, obviously the quality/fit like you say would probably never be as good as the RS2 though.
Ph1 172 & Clio DCi
It certantly didnt make that standard in my car, I think the time millege is starting to kill the old girl! It made 168bhp standard in my little ph1 lol
Well atleast I can sell it all on as a 200bhp setup now lol
lol
Tim.
ClioSport Club Member
Fair play to you Dan, you set yourself a target and you've achieved it, that must be very rewarding! Onya mate.
- Status
