Clio 1.2 TCE in Mk2 chassis??

[02coled]

Hello

Right ill set the scene. Iv got a Mk2 Ph2 Clio 1.2 16v D4F which has done 114k miles and is running on its last legs. She is drinking more oil than fuel and requires a rebuild / replacement.

Iv read a few posts on a few forums of people asking about putting the 1.2 TCE engine from the mk3 into the mk2. However there has never been any real talk about this being done. Nor has it been completed.

So my question is will it fit and will it work??

Iv rear and understand that the TCE was a redesigned D4F with strengthened internals and obviously a small turbo.

What I need to know is if the engine its self:
- Uses the same mounting points
- Will fit into the MK2 engine bay
- Connections between the ECU and the other computers within the car UCU, etc etc
- Can I use my existing D4F gearbox and will it align straight up
- Could I possibly use the existing ECU from the D4F and get it remapped/modified to suit the new engine.

I was going to swap to a 172 engine. But with the rising fuel costs and insurance for young drivers its not feasible.

Ill be carrying all the work out myself. If anyone has any information that can help me it will be much appreciated.

 

[Knuckles]

Doesn't it put out as much power as the 1.4 k4j? Stick one of those in instead... Or a k4j... Won't that be easier? Sorry if I'm no help :/

 

[02coled]

As standard its puts out 100bhp. K-tec have one running 150bhp though. As standard it has the same torque as a 1.6, same power as a 1.4, but the economy of a 1.2. Sounds a good bargain to me. Also any engine swap would mean a change of all the electronics which would cause a problem with wiring changes etc.
I'm hoping that I can use the standard D4F ecu with a D4FT engine.

 

[Knuckles]

I didn't know that... How've they managed 150? I hope you get the help you're after then and get this done mate

 

[Dean.]

Most people will say it's pointless.. And it is. But still do it!

 

[02coled]

I didn't know that... How've they managed 150? I hope you get the help you're after then and get this done mate

Don't know exactly.Iv only read it in another post. Yeah if its possible it could be a very good conversion. The mk2 being a lot lighter than the mk3 around 10% lighter

 

[02coled]

Having a think. The only sensor I can imagine being different on the D4FT to the D4F is the manifold pressure. Because obviously it would now need to measure positive pressure.

 

[fearless]

I think the two limiting points would be bulkhead clearance for the turbo, and then actually running it.

There is no way an old d4f ecu would run it, and i'm pretty sure the uch would have a fit if you plugged in a newer turbo ecu. Standalone or nothing, imo.

 

[02coled]

I could really do we talking to a Renault tech to ask if the sensors are the same on the engines etc? If they were I could use the old ecu on the new engine surely, providing the old D4F ecu was programmable enough.
Might have to be a message to K-tec to ask about some technical questions.

 

[02coled]

Sent an email off to K-tec racing. Fingers crossed they have some information regarding this. It could be fairly cheap if its a simple swap. £500 for an engine with less than 10k miles.

 

[02coled]

Right after a short conversation with K-tec Racing. In theory they should be able to programme the standard ecu to recognice boost using the MAP sensor from the D4FT. So as long as I can make up mounts/position the engine correctly in the engine bay it should all be go.

Iv seen a D4FT engine on eBay for £445 only covered 5k miles. Might buy it and see how it goes from there.

Quick question, anyone know if the standard D4F gearbox would match up with the D4FT engine, I'm hoping so.

Also done a few quick calculation, in theory if I can reach the 150bhp like iv rear previously from the D4FT, it would have the same Bhp/tonne as the New Clio RS 200. That's obviously worse than the 182, but not bad really from a 1.2.

 

[Christopher]

Pointless with F4R's so cheap.

 

[welshname]

that sounds epic. would be a right laugh. remember, upgrade brakes, and i would also upgrade suspension as you dont want to go chucking the standard clio around with 150bhp.

 

[Scrooge]

Didn't they do the 1.2 tce in the last of the campus models?

 

[Dean.]

Go for it mate I like that your doing something different.

 

[welshname]

everyone says F4R but people just cant afford the insurance. isnt Rob paying like near 3k on insurance.

 

[Goodj]

Sounds like an interesting new upgrade route.
Instead of having the N/A joy of revs, you'd have some mid-range instead.
Sure, it's pointless., but so is every other mod that people do

 

[mr.pink87]

This is the clio sport of the future (i know: downsizing sucks)! gearbox from a NA D4F should fit. Clearance to bulkhead can´t be that bad if you can even squeeze a charger on the 1*2. Upper engine mount could be tricky but there isn´t anythin that can´t be adapted. Do it!


I should consider this mod for my daily hack...

 

[Martin_172]

engine mounts are the same.

your gearbox doesnt fit i dont think as it uses the newer boxes, you could just use one of the new boxes with a DCi 100 gear linkage setup though or have a plate made up to adapt your box to the new bottom end

 

[mr.pink87]

I thought the block dimensions are the same on the D4FT!?

 

[Martin_172]

similar but use the newer style gearboxes which i beleive are mounted slightly different to the block cant confirm that though.

either way the linkage is different they use a hydraulic clutch i think (the dci100 does anyway) and the gear linkage is on the top of the box rather than underneath

 

[welshname]

Please do it. If it works I'll deffo be saving the pennies to get it done as my insurance company won't touch me on a sport for a couple of years yet!

 

[02coled]

The F4R engine swap is to much of a pain having to replace all the interior wiring looms and all the cars computers and transponders etc etc. Iv looked into it a lot and it ends up becoming extremely expensive.

Suspension and brakes already uprated/upgraded. If anything a little too much.
Just a quick list:

[FONT=&quot]- K- Tec racing uprated and lowered suspension kit (40mm)
- Polybush replacement anti roll and wishbone kits
- OMP Front and Rear strut braces (Anthracite)
- AST Solid top strut mounts
- K-tec racing camber adjustment bolts
- Renault Megan 16" Sport alloys - on Goodyear Eagle F1 (195/45's)
- Clio Sport rear axle and rear discs conversion
- Rear drilled and grooved discs with standard pads
- Front Brembo MAX brake discs, Greenstuff pads and HEL Stainless steel brake line
- Engine dynamics short shift link

Suspension set up:
Front - 2deg Negative Camber, 20mins toe out, max positive caster.
Rear - 1.5 negative camber[/FONT]


So we aren't saying its impossible to make the current gearbox link up? Id like to keep the old style cable clutch, as the new ones are two light and feel s**t IMO.

If this all goes to plan ill take some photos of progress and *hopefully* make up a tutorial.

Which reminds me, may have fixed the issue with the non standard Clio getting the rear beam and brakes from a Cliosport. Managed to get myself the correct number of teeth abs rings of the correct size. Shall be fitting this weekend (fingers crossed and ill have ABS on the rear again).

I'm certainly looking forward to this conversion, should be fairly low cost with fairly large gains.

I might get a price for sending the engine away for some minor tweaks. Got a friend of a friend who could get it done a lot cheaper than normal. Id think maybe:
+ Lightened and balanced bottom end
+ Lightened and balanced flywheel
+ Re-grind cam or new cams
+ Flowed and ported head
+ Blueprinted

Id have to see what can be done really and the cost involved.

Until then ill keep you updated. Any help or comments still welcomed?

 

[02coled]

A guy on the "Renault Forums" brings up a good point.

" I have a Twingo GT which has the same engine. The Twingo 2 is based on the floorpan of the Mk2 Clio so in theory you should be able to fit the engine to your Mk2 physically.

You will actually have much more room than in the Twingo so as such should have better options when it comes to exhaust clearance, though the Mk3 Clio or Twingo exhaust will not fit as the turbo manifold is different to your normal one (so thats a custom jobbie). The CAT is also built into the exhaust manifold downpipe on the TCE so that could complicate matters."

From theboydann

 

[Knuckles]

Good to see you haven't given up, hope you get his done, leave the cats out why dont you just start work on it? I.e start the swap and ask questions on the problems you come across?

You seem very competent with mechanics so it shouldnt be a problem to jump in feet first.

 

[Martin_172]

be a cool idea to reshell a twingo GT in the mk2 shell, just fit the dash/dials etc just do everything, that would make it a doddle!

 

[welshname]

this sounds very promising. if i keep my car im definatley going to look into this. sounds epic.

 

[beng-120]

i was considering a 182 conversion for mine, but after reading this im very tempted as 150bhp from a 1.2 sounds interesting, could be a lot of fun! any more info on the possible gearbox issues?

 

[Goodj]

150hp and enough lb/ft to get moving without red-lining?

Sounds good, but not as fun.

 

[welshname]

150hp and enough lb/ft to get moving without red-lining?

Sounds good, but not as fun.

sounds like a much more insurance friendly way to get a bit of power though.

 

[Martin_172]

especially if its not declaired lol

 

[welshname]

if its not declared get a v6 conversion done! lol

 

[Scrooge]

That wouldn't be noticable would it Rhys

 

[Goodj]

Surely any home-brew engine conversion would be treated like an accideent waiting to happen?
If I was an insurance company, I wouldn't go near them

Claim: Was driving along when my home-made engine mount (made from Pine) snapped, dumped the engine into the tarmac and flipped the car onto its roof. I then slid for 600 yards straight into a primary school.
Because I had my lights on though, the kids got out of the way

 

[welshname]

That wouldn't be noticable would it Rhys

Not atall. just make the engine cover look like a big fat sub woofer and stick a picture of an engine in your old engine bay.

job done.

 

[Martin_172]

Surely any home-brew engine conversion would be treated like an accideent waiting to happen?
If I was an insurance company, I wouldn't go near them

Claim: Was driving along when my home-made engine mount (made from Pine) snapped, dumped the engine into the tarmac and flipped the car onto its roof. I then slid for 600 yards straight into a primary school.
Because I had my lights on though, the kids got out of the way

not really, it still needs to pass an mot

 

[Scrooge]

not really, it still needs to pass an mot

I needed an engineer's report for my mondeo V6 conversion.

 

[02coled]

Engine finally ordered. Got myself a bargain and *apparently* a low mileage one, all ancillaries and wiring loom. Should be here next week.

Still got a long way to go. Bits to consider are: engine mounts, gearbox coupling, engine electronics and wiring and exhaust down pipe.

Most of them should be fairly easy. But they are things I can not prepare for until iv got the engine sitting in the engine bay.


Until then iv got a rack of things to get on with for the Clio. Including sunroof blanking panel which turned up yesterday (The sunroof leak became too much)

 

[/Jim]

Got an update on this? Sounds interesting!

 

[welshname]

Yeah I'd forgotten about this. Maybe the OP realised it was actually a waste of time however interesting it may be.